Why end 80s/earlier 90s JRPG's so different than modern ones?

[Cryomancer]

Western audience just wants waifus.

We can have a bald middle age MC tough man with waifus...

Anyway, one thing that i don't understand is why JRPG's focus so much on CQB combat only. I mean, even when they go full SCI-FI in the Xenoblade, they have unpractical sword protagonist. I enjoy melee combat but i prefer a more high intense combat like M&B and where i can do more than swing a sword. IE - I can pick a jot of Javelins, a Spear and a Axe and throw Javelins into enemies, then impale enemies with my spear and if i an in a too close position to use my spear, got knocked down from my horse for eg, use my axe.

The brunt of the market isnt catering to the west, since they gain less from overseas sales due to translation costs, licensing agreements and taxes. Nippon Ichi and certain Square Enix departments are the only ones which heavily cater I know off.

Not only that, the censorship also means that a lot of people will piracy the game.

I an not a jrpg fan but i don't understand why Cyberpunk 2077 can show nudity but when a JRPG does the same, it is heavily censored.

 

[Reinhardt]

Because rpg games are games for real men and real men fight in melee instead of throwing shit at enemies like some monkeys.

 

[Thac0]

I an not a jrpg fan but i don't understand why Cyberpunk 2077 can show nudity but when a JRPG does the same, it is heavily censored.

The western market branches that handle the localisation for the Japanese big fishes are all fucking prudes. Sony of America and Square Enix of America are scum of the industry.

GamerGate: The SJW in Gaming Dumping Ground

This is about Sony and in a differen context, but I wholeheartedly agree for different reasosn.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Funny, I just watched a small series on this:

 

[Cryomancer]

Because rpg games are games for real men and real men fight in melee instead of throwing shit at enemies like some monkeys.

Yep; every modern soldier is not "real man", the guys who hunted dangerous animals with bows and javalins since the ice age aren't either. /sarcasm

The western market branches that handle the localisation for the Japanese big fishes are all fucking prudes. Sony of America and Square Enix of America are scum of the industry.

GamerGate: The SJW in Gaming Dumping Ground

This is about Sony and in a differen context, but I wholeheartedly agree for different reasosn.

Seems like i don't have permission to read that thread. But i got your point. On Japan, people don't have left wing SJW's and right wing puritans trying to censor everything because sexuality is somehow worse than violence. Even with anime, One Piece is one of the most popular animes in the entire world, except in the anglosphere. Why? 4kids censorship. Censoship never helped anything to sell. Quite the contrary.

 

[Thac0]

Funny, I just watched a small series on this:

Stop reminding me of when Extra Credits was good. This is them now.



I do kinda miss them, their best guy is at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxO_ya-RmAXCXJCU54AxYFw new Frame Plus now.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Damn. I didn't know they degraded. It popped up on my gaming vid cache on ytube and i watched. I haven't seen anything else they've done.

 

[Thac0]

Damn. I didn't know they degraded. It popped up on my gaming vid cache on ytube and i watched. I haven't seen anything else they've done.

You should watch that video I linked for the pure cringe factor and for the marvelous like/dislike ratio.
Around the time the voice changed they went down the gutter. They had a change in lineup, an asshole went up the command chain. Funnily enough he is hated by the right and the left the same since he made this video, but also molested a female coworker and tried to gaslight her or sth like that. Before that they are fine.

 

[Cryomancer]

That extra credit video is just game journalist level of awfulness.

If i had a lot of money, i would make a single player aircraft game, where you play as Adolf Galland. From his missions on Spanish Civil war to the late stages of WW2 where the flew Me 262s. ( https://www.luftwaffe.cz/gallanda.html ) Note that he din't committed any war crime. A off topic curiosity. A guy from my home town is the unique guy born outside of Europe who ever got a Iron Cross ( http://luftwaffe.cz/albrecht.html ).We need more different settings for shooters and war games in general. Battlefield 1 was great focusing on WW1, so why not focus on Spanish Civil War? We already have like 6156416515646154 FPS games on WW2. Why not a single FPS on Spanish Civil war? A FPS on Korean war? The Brazilian revolution of 1932, since games love to put woman on war games, woman actually fought in that conflict and the Rebels even improvised transforming trucks into armored vehicles

A woman soldier from SP forces and a improvised tank

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:..._the_Constitutionalist_revolution_of_1932.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Maria_Sguassábia_as_a_soldier.jpg

----------------------------

About JRPG's, There are any post apocalyptic one? I wonder how the JRPG "formula" and tropes would work with a post apocalyptic game. Elex in particular combines SCI-FI with Fantasy and pos apocalyptic genre in a single game.

 

[Thac0]

That extra credit video is just game journalist level of awfulness.

If i had a lot of money, i would make a single player aircraft game, where you play as Adolf Galland. From his missions on Spanish Civil war to the late stages of WW2 where the flew Me 262s. ( https://www.luftwaffe.cz/gallanda.html ) Note that he din't committed any war crime. A off topic curiosity. A guy from my home town is the unique guy born outside of Europe who ever got a Iron Cross ( http://luftwaffe.cz/albrecht.html ).We need more different settings for shooters and war games in general. Battlefield 1 was great focusing on WW1, so why not focus on Spanish Civil War? We already have like 6156416515646154 FPS games on WW2. Why not a single FPS on Spanish Civil war? A FPS on Korean war? The Brazilian revolution of 1932, since games love to put woman on war games, woman actually fought in that conflict and the Rebels even improvised transforming trucks into armored vehicles

A woman soldier from SP forces and a improvised tank

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:..._the_Constitutionalist_revolution_of_1932.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filearia_Sguassábia_as_a_soldier.jpg

----------------------------

About JRPG's, There are any post apocalyptic one? I wonder how the JRPG "formula" and tropes would work with a post apocalyptic game. Elex in particular combines SCI-FI with Fantasy and pos apocalyptic genre in a single game.

From the top of my head the legendary Chrono Trigger is a time travel rpg. You also time travel to one postapocalyptic timeline.

In the Shin Megami Tensei games you usually roam a Tokio destroyed by calamity. Its not post apocalyptic in the fallout sense tho.

A lot of JRPGs have ruins of a former great civilisation that has fallen. Almost all of them in fact.

There are a few more that see post apocalyptic as "everything is intact but all humans are just magically gone". I havnt played Tokyo Xanado but heard good things. I have a soft spot for the horror Wii JRPG (what a tagline!) Fragile Dreams, Farewell Ruins of the Moon.
The World ends with you is probably the best one of those

But if you want a Fallout JRPG I dont think there is any. Maybe Nier Automata.

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

Just look at modern anime.

Excuse me?

 

[Thac0]

Elex in particular combines SCI-FI with Fantasy and pos apocalyptic genre in a single game.

Sci Fi + Fantasy is incredibly common in JRPGs. Most known games are Phantasy Star and Star Ocean. Xenogears is a bit grittier and starts with an amazing video.



They tend to use the Star Wars or Star Trek style fantasies, so Space Opera instead of gritty realism.

 

[MpuMngwana]

That extra credit video is just game journalist level of awfulness.

If i had a lot of money, i would make a single player aircraft game, where you play as Adolf Galland. From his missions on Spanish Civil war to the late stages of WW2 where the flew Me 262s. ( https://www.luftwaffe.cz/gallanda.html ) Note that he din't committed any war crime. A off topic curiosity. A guy from my home town is the unique guy born outside of Europe who ever got a Iron Cross ( http://luftwaffe.cz/albrecht.html ).We need more different settings for shooters and war games in general. Battlefield 1 was great focusing on WW1, so why not focus on Spanish Civil War? We already have like 6156416515646154 FPS games on WW2. Why not a single FPS on Spanish Civil war? A FPS on Korean war? The Brazilian revolution of 1932, since games love to put woman on war games, woman actually fought in that conflict and the Rebels even improvised transforming trucks into armored vehicles

A woman soldier from SP forces and a improvised tank

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:..._the_Constitutionalist_revolution_of_1932.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filearia_Sguassábia_as_a_soldier.jpg

----------------------------

About JRPG's, There are any post apocalyptic one? I wonder how the JRPG "formula" and tropes would work with a post apocalyptic game. Elex in particular combines SCI-FI with Fantasy and pos apocalyptic genre in a single game.

Aside from already mentioned Nier Automata and MegaTen (which tends to be post-biblycal apocalypse rather than post-nuclear), there’s the Metal Max franchise. I haven’t played it yet, but from what I’ve heard it’s post-apocalypse and you fight using tanks.

I guess the second half of Final Fantasy VI counts as well.

 

[urmom]

Is Earthbound sci-fi or fantasy?

Anyway, I was never a huge JRPG fan, but the genre died for me when FF experimented with crappy MMO and real-time combat.

 

[Ashigara]

Neither I'd say, it's more like absurdist or something

 

[Ialda]

Mother/Earthbound is post-modernist (use of metafiction, pastiche of regular RPG tropes, critique of modernity/consummerism especially in 3).

For its defense, back in the 90s using pomo in pop-culture was still rather new and, often, clever; it hadn't been coopted by the low IQ, marxist mob yet.

 

[Paper]

Mother/Earthbound is post-modernist (use of metafiction, pastiche of regular RPG tropes, critique of modernity/consummerism especially in 3).

For its defense, back in the 90s using pomo in pop-culture was still rather new and, often, clever; it hadn't been coopted by the low IQ, marxist mob yet.

even acknowledging a correlation between post-modernism and marxism makes you seem like a philistine retard, tbh

 

[Thac0]

Mother/Earthbound is post-modernist (use of metafiction, pastiche of regular RPG tropes, critique of modernity/consummerism especially in 3).

For its defense, back in the 90s using pomo in pop-culture was still rather new and, often, clever; it hadn't been coopted by the low IQ, marxist mob yet.

even acknowledging a correlation between post-modernism and marxism makes you seem like a philistine retard, tbh

He is not coming from nowhere, https://store.steampowered.com/app/459080/YIIK_A_Postmodern_RPG/ this is what postmodernism looks like in the west.
But its entirely unrelated to the east since Japan simply does not have the problem of pretentious hipsters to that scale. (Caveat here that maybe they have them but their works just never get translated to Murican, since they suck. No Japanese has ever heard of JIIk for obvious reasons)

I am not too deep into literature theory but I think Persona is post modern aswell.

 

[Paper]

wtf america :S they really have to make a fucking brand out of everything, don't they? disgusting

 

[Ialda]

I am not too deep into literature theory but I think Persona is post modern aswell.

I never really thought of Persona outside the pop CG Jung + Jojo's Bizarre Adventure + chara-driven Megaten in a school-setting with occult shoujo manga sensibilities trifecta (+ also conspiracy theories and urban legends, at least in 90s Persona), if you can elaborate on this I'd be curious to hear it.

 

[Cryomancer]

I know that is half off topic, but i will not create a thread only to ask about it. I've heard that MHW is amazing and very Dragon's Dogma but what turned me off is the nonsensical artstyle. Is monster hunter similar to DD gameplay wise? Can i be a deadly marksman on MHW? Does armor works like on DD? There are spells and special deadly arrows?

Honestly DD has by far the best iteration of longbows on any action fantasy RPG that i saw. Just like new vegas has the best iteration of firearms.

 

[Thac0]

I never really thought of Persona outside the pop CG Jung + Jojo's Bizarre Adventure + chara-driven Megaten in a school-setting with occult shoujo manga sensibilities trifecta (+ also conspiracy theories and urban legends, at least in 90s Persona), if you can elaborate on this I'd be curious to hear it.

The mixing old culture wildly while critiquing on the way the modern world assaults the senses of the youth (TV world, Mementos) mostly. Also it tends to have very character driven stories about isolation etc.
But as I said my interest in literature theory is very slim so this might be a bullshit connection.

I know that is half off topic, but i will not create a thread only to ask about it. I've heard that MHW is amazing and very Dragon's Dogma but what turned me off is the nonsensical artstyle. Is monster hunter similar to DD gameplay wise? Can i be a deadly marksman on MHW? Does armor works like on DD? There are spells and special deadly arrows?

Honestly DD has by far the best iteration of longbows on any action fantasy RPG that i saw. Just like new vegas has the best iteration of firearms.

Kind of? The games are very fundamentally different in everything except combat. You dont have an open world, you play hunts. There are maybe 8 different maps of medium size and you hunt monsters on them. Half the game is preperation for these hunts (crafting healing potions, grilling steak, eating for buffs, tracking the monster, setting traps etc) and post preperation (cutting the monster up, crafting the monster parts into better armor and weapons)

You dont have a skill system, you moveset is roughly the same for every weapon. So every Longsword plays the same, every Gunlance plays the same etc. There is a lot of weapons so it takes a while until that gets old and the movesets are very complex and allow a lot of skill.
It has that reactivity of Dragons Dogma where you can climb your enemies back and stuff. The numbers balance however is very different. You want to doge 90% of attacks and block the rest, getting hit costs you a lot of life and means you need to heal. If from your 4 man hunting party 3 people get knocked out (same guy can get knocked out multiple times) you lose the hunt. The monster is usually the damage sponge to end all damage sponges and takes 20+ minutes of focussed attacks to kill, and it has no life bar. You see your progress by it panting etc.

But actually fighting with the weapons there is a certain similarity to DD. Its just the game is different in everything else. But Bows and Crossbows are pretty fun in MHW with different arrow types and whatnot.

 

[Cryomancer]

Kind of? The games are very fundamentally different in everything except combat. You dont have an open world, you play hunts. There are maybe 8 different maps of medium size and you hunt monsters on them. Half the game is preperation for these hunts (crafting healing potions, grilling steak, eating for buffs, tracking the monster, setting traps etc) and post preperation (cutting the monster up, crafting the monster parts into better armor and weapons)

You dont have a skill system, you moveset is roughly the same for every weapon. So every Longsword plays the same, every Gunlance plays the same etc. There is a lot of weapons so it takes a while until that gets old and the movesets are very complex and allow a lot of skill.
It has that reactivity of Dragons Dogma where you can climb your enemies back and stuff. The numbers balance however is very different. You want to doge 90% of attacks and block the rest, getting hit costs you a lot of life and means you need to heal. If from your 4 man hunting party 3 people get knocked out (same guy can get knocked out multiple times) you lose the hunt. The monster is usually the damage sponge to end all damage sponges and takes 20+ minutes of focussed attacks to kill, and it has no life bar. You see your progress by it panting etc.

But actually fighting with the weapons there is a certain similarity to DD. Its just the game is different in everything else. But Bows and Crossbows are pretty fun in MHW with different arrow types and whatnot.

Thanks a lot. I will not buy. Seems taht MHW is more gear dependent than DD and i honestly don't like much gear dependency on RPG's. Believe or not, i had a magick archer on DD which reached lv 150 on hard mode without even dragon-forging my Dragon's Breath magick bow nor finding a single BI bow tier 2 or 3. Had like 17 daggers but my magick attack for my bow was less than half of my sorceress pawn. Against BI dragonkin, i was only using my bow to set explosive rivets into the weakstpots so i can immolate + thousand kisses with my daggers and deal ludicrous damage. This is one of many reasons to which i prefer ranger. You can get Dragon's Glaze early on and with it, you can just upgrade it and beat any creature with it. Even without that longbow, you can use great gamble and hit target weakspots...

The RNGoddess hates me...

 

[Thac0]

Kind of? The games are very fundamentally different in everything except combat. You dont have an open world, you play hunts. There are maybe 8 different maps of medium size and you hunt monsters on them. Half the game is preperation for these hunts (crafting healing potions, grilling steak, eating for buffs, tracking the monster, setting traps etc) and post preperation (cutting the monster up, crafting the monster parts into better armor and weapons)

You dont have a skill system, you moveset is roughly the same for every weapon. So every Longsword plays the same, every Gunlance plays the same etc. There is a lot of weapons so it takes a while until that gets old and the movesets are very complex and allow a lot of skill.
It has that reactivity of Dragons Dogma where you can climb your enemies back and stuff. The numbers balance however is very different. You want to doge 90% of attacks and block the rest, getting hit costs you a lot of life and means you need to heal. If from your 4 man hunting party 3 people get knocked out (same guy can get knocked out multiple times) you lose the hunt. The monster is usually the damage sponge to end all damage sponges and takes 20+ minutes of focussed attacks to kill, and it has no life bar. You see your progress by it panting etc.

But actually fighting with the weapons there is a certain similarity to DD. Its just the game is different in everything else. But Bows and Crossbows are pretty fun in MHW with different arrow types and whatnot.

Thanks a lot. I will not buy. Seems taht MHW is more gear dependent than DD and i honestly don't like much gear dependency on RPG's. Believe or not, i had a magick archer on DD which reached lv 150 on hard mode without even dragon-forging my Dragon's Breath magick bow nor finding a single BI bow tier 2 or 3. Had like 17 daggers but my magick attack for my bow was less than half of my sorceress pawn. Against BI dragonkin, i was only using my bow to set explosive rivets into the weakstpots so i can immolate + thousand kisses with my daggers and deal ludicrous damage. This is one of many reasons to which i prefer ranger. You can get Dragon's Glaze early on and with it, you can just upgrade it and beat any creature with it. Even without that longbow, you can use great gamble and hit target weakspots...

The RNGoddess hates me...

Yeah it is entirely gear dependant. You dont even have a level in Monster Hunter, the difference between a rookie hunter and a master is that the former has shitty armor made from mud and rocks and a big insect tied to a stick as a weapon, while the latter wields a fully upgraded armor made from a fire dragon while wielding a thunder unicorn horn as a lance. Also the elite hunter can afford better consumables for buffing and healing and has stronger amulets and talismans and stuff.

 

[Karellen]

About JRPG's, There are any post apocalyptic one? I wonder how the JRPG "formula" and tropes would work with a post apocalyptic game. Elex in particular combines SCI-FI with Fantasy and pos apocalyptic genre in a single game.

As of yet unmentioned is the Wild ARMS series, of which the first game in particular is a thoroughly worthy jRPG that might contain the answers you seek. The games have a distinctive (and weird) Wild West aesthetic that's mixed with traditional fantasy elements and a smattering of scifi, but the narrative and setting have a strong post-apocalyptic undercurrent of living on a dying, decaying world. The combat system is pretty by-the-book (though guns feature prominently), but the dungeons have very respectable environmental puzzles and there's a fair amount of hidden stuff in the world. The 2D graphics are great, the 3D graphics are terrible, and the soundtrack, which liberally cribs Ennio Morricone, is uniformly great. A very solid jRPG overall.

Then there's Panzer Dragoon Saga, which is the RPG follow-up to a series of shmups set in a very Moebius-inspired, post-apocalyptic world where people drive gene-manipulated dragons. It's more of an accidental cult classic than a genuinely great game, though.