Baldur's Gate Why do YOU hate Baldur's Gate 3?

[NJClaw]

It's very superficial to judge a game based on its title alone, don't be a jerk like that, ok?

rpgcodex > don't be a jerk, ok?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

bg2 has nothing to do with baldur's gate at all therefore it is garbage

 

[Nyx]

bg2 has nothing to do with baldur's gate at all therefore it is garbage

This is a great point! Larian is just following the old Bioware tradition of ignoring the premise of the previous game and doing another thing with the sequel. BG2 wasn't very interested in following up on the sequel setup the first game ended on, instead they saved that for the rushed expansion that was mostly about combat. You're the bhaalspawn and your brother wants you dead and has started a huge conspiracy to become a the god of murder ➤ completely irrelevant nonsense ➤ expansion about fighting the other bhaalspawn and ascending into godhood yourself. They did the same thing with Mass Effect, You find out that there's space squids that want to kill everyone ➤ completely irrelevant nonsense ➤ third game has to rush everything to solve the setup from the first game. Dragon Age did sort of the same thing, but the first game was more of a complete story that didn't set up any real hooks other than questions about the lore, like what was up with the monster mash and stuff. The sequel wasn't interested in exploring that lore at all but instead kept to a single city and delved into family drama, then they sort of delved into lore in parts of the main story and the DLC of Inquisition. Like if you want to know what happened to Morrigan you will might as well skip DA2. I'm sure Bioware would have done the same with Jade Empire if it sold enough to warrant sequels.

So if anything Larian is doing exactly what Bioware would have done, ignoring the previous game and just doing what seems to make for a nice game. Maybe Swen can release an expansion DLC later where you actually get to play as the bhaalspawn, then it'd be just like old Bioware!

Altho you might just be talking about the city of Baldur's Gate, but the naming convention thing is still valid, it's not what it says on the tin anyway.

It's very superficial to judge a game based on its title alone, don't be a jerk like that, ok?

rpgcodex > don't be a jerk, ok?

Yes, let's be nice.

 

[Sweeper]

Larian is incapable of making a good RPG considering their previous titles. I fucking hate when they have to sully a franchize just to get more sales.
This is Fallout 3 all over again.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Success breeds jealousy.

 

[Luckmann]

It's [current year]

Hey! I'm not retarded!

Yes.

Yes you are.

 

[Sweeper]

Success breeds jealousy.

Fallout 4 is a good RPG

 

[Sweeper]

Hey! I'm not retarded! It's 2020, even if it was made by the same people who worked on BG2 it would be different. Even Siege of Dragonspear which used the same engine, got old voice actors back, had some of the old devs on it, even that was very different from the old games. Suuure, making it a numbered title is totally a dumdum move, it will alienate new players and it doesn't make sense for old grumps like you, but like does that even matter that much to you? You can just delet the 3 from the desktop shortcut and replace it with a subtitle, like "Baldur's Gate: The Return of the Shadowy Darkness of Evil". It's very superficial to judge a game based on its title alone, don't be a jerk like that, ok?

This, this is too obvious bro. You're trying to hard.
Tone it down a bit.

 

[Harthwain]

This is a great point! Larian is just following the old Bioware tradition of ignoring the premise of the previous game and doing another thing with the sequel. BG2 wasn't very interested in following up on the sequel setup the first game ended on, instead they saved that for the rushed expansion that was mostly about combat.

I fail to see how was Bioware ignoring the premise of previous games.

The focal point of Baldur's Gate (1 and 2) was Bhaalspawn and, by extension, Bhaal. In the first game you find out you're a Bhaalspawn and that your main opponent was your brother (meaning he was yet another Bhaalspawn). In the second game Irenicus uses Imoen and you to fix his (and his sister's) problem by using the fact that you (and your sister) are Bhaalspawns. Throne of Bhaal is deciding what you want to do with the Bhaalspawn legacy.

Larian will get Bhaal involved - it's already confirmed he's back and he's doing something - and that's the main link to the originals:

Spoiler

 

[Verylittlefishes]

Because it is not isometric and it is not Baldur's Gate
and because I'm not a teenager anymore (((

 

[Drowed]

I didn't like BG1 or 2, so I don't intend to start now.

Or am I?

 

[Takamori]

I can't hate it until I see evidence and/or see by myself that the game is a huge decline that takes nothing from the predecessors.
As for being Turn Based, well D20 systems are in turns but I can understand people being turned down since they were used with RTWP more dynamics style when they master the micro management.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

I can't hate it until I see evidence and/or see by myself that the game is a huge decline that takes nothing from the predecessors.

yeah, who knows, probably that Vampires 2 game would be a masterpiece too?

 

[Takamori]

Well Bloodlines we already have evidence of development hell so its not the same thing. At least we will get a serviceable product from Larian unless something different happen and Swen decides to go naked in his office while high on Cocaine.

 

[HarveyBirdman]

Because Baldur's Gate is a boring franchise. Imagine the most generic story possible, with the most generic atmosphere, and the most worthless "combat" system. Oh wait, you don't have to imagine it, because Baldur's Gate already exists.

 

[Nyx]

I fail to see how was Bioware ignoring the premise of previous games.

The focal point of Baldur's Gate (1 and 2) was Bhaalspawn and, by extension, Bhaal. In the first game you find out you're a Bhaalspawn and that your main opponent was your brother (meaning he was yet another Bhaalspawn). In the second game Irenicus uses Imoen and you to fix his (and his sister's) problem by using the fact that you (and your sister) are Bhaalspawns. Throne of Bhaal is deciding what you want to do with the Bhaalspawn legacy.

Larian will get Bhaal involved - it's already confirmed he's back and he's doing something - and that's the main link to the originals

It's not that they are ignoring it per se, just that they don't follow up one the main story plot thingy. ToB is more of a true sequel to BG than BG2 was in that sense. Just like ME3 did almost all of the legwork in advancing what was set up in ME1. ME2 didn't ignore the premise of the previous game either, it just didn't advance that stuff, the space squids are mentioned but it's not what the game is about. BG2 could have been about some other character that was special in some way, it's not really about being a bhaalspawn. The core BG plot is very manga-esque when you think about it, it's a great setup for fights and cool stuff to happen.

It's [current year]

Hey! I'm not retarded!

Yes.

Yes you are.

Do you think I'm wrong about that? You actually think I'm stupid for saying that the BG games were a product of the cultural landscape they were embedded in and of a certain place in time of a certain area? Even if they could catch the same lightning in a lightbulb again the kind of game BG was isn't viable in the current market. You got a couple of isometric 2D-background based games from Obsidian not that long ago, on paper they were almost exactly like the old IE games, but yet I don't think I've ever seen them being as liked and celebrated. Why is that, huh? You got a literal expansion pack to BG1, yet that wasn't the bee's knees. Larian is a big company and they need to sell a lot of copies, so they can't make something like that. But if you ask me (and you totally should!) then BG3 is looking much better than both PoE and SoD. Not just saying that because Avernus is übercool and I'm super excited to play as a tiefling. If you don't agree with that and think PoE is where it's at then you take your opinion and throw it in the trash where it belongs.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

It's 2020

This is the reason why: experience from the past.

 

[Harthwain]

It's not that they are ignoring it per se, just that they don't follow up one the main story plot thingy. ToB is more of a true sequel to BG than BG2 was in that sense. [...] BG2 could have been about some other character that was special in some way, it's not really about being a bhaalspawn. The core BG plot is very manga-esque when you think about it, it's a great setup for fights and cool stuff to happen.

Isn't that's the point though? Use the plot as an excuse to set up fights and make cool stuff happen?

 

[Nyx]

It's not that they are ignoring it per se, just that they don't follow up one the main story plot thingy. ToB is more of a true sequel to BG than BG2 was in that sense. [...] BG2 could have been about some other character that was special in some way, it's not really about being a bhaalspawn. The core BG plot is very manga-esque when you think about it, it's a great setup for fights and cool stuff to happen.

Isn't that's the point though? Use the plot as an excuse to set up fights and make cool stuff happen?

Yes! But they should be centered around a core plot so everything is cohesive. Like, the premise, you're one of many potential candidates to become a god of murder, that's a great setup to go wherever and do whatever and involve a lot of action, but the game doesn't go there, you have to more or less wait for the expansion for that to happen. Irenicus, Imoen and the soul stealing plot and all of that is unnecessary and it doesn't advance the premise. The high fantasy battle royale should be the focus, not elven melodrama.

 

[Harthwain]

Yes! But they should be centered around a core plot so everything is cohesive. Like, the premise, you're one of many potential candidates to become a god of murder, that's a great setup to go wherever and do whatever and involve a lot of action, but the game doesn't go there, you have to more or less wait for the expansion for that to happen. Irenicus, Imoen and the soul stealing plot and all of that is unnecessary and it doesn't advance the premise. The high fantasy battle royale should be the focus, not elven melodrama.

You raise a salient point. However, I must note that while I agree there is a notable absence of Bhaalspawns in BG2, I wasn't too impressed with how ToB handled it. I think they should've expanded the plot from BG1 by including more Bhaalspawns as hidden players behind the events. Not just in hopes of making a bloody war, but simply to eliminate the opposition (including other Bhaalspawns) via executions, assassinations and such. War could've been merely a means of asserting control to carry out the aforementioned activities. Hell, you could even hint at something shady laying in wait in BG2, without actually needing to reveal too much before BG3/ToB.

 

[Nyx]

Yes! But they should be centered around a core plot so everything is cohesive. Like, the premise, you're one of many potential candidates to become a god of murder, that's a great setup to go wherever and do whatever and involve a lot of action, but the game doesn't go there, you have to more or less wait for the expansion for that to happen. Irenicus, Imoen and the soul stealing plot and all of that is unnecessary and it doesn't advance the premise. The high fantasy battle royale should be the focus, not elven melodrama.

You raise a salient point. However, I must note that while I agree there is a notable absence of Bhaalspawns in BG2, I wasn't too impressed with how ToB handled it. I think they should've expanded the plot from BG1 by including more Bhaalspawns as hidden players behind the events. Not just in hopes of making a bloody war, but simply to eliminate the opposition (including other Bhaalspawns) via executions, assassinations and such. War could've been merely a means of asserting control to carry out the aforementioned activities. Hell, you could even hint at something shady laying in wait in BG2, without actually needing to reveal too much before BG3/ToB.

I agree, ToB was a rushed conclusion to the real story, just like ME3. My solution would have been to just make BG2 about that to begin with and you could then branch out from there into side stories and stuff. Since the bhaalspawn have nefarious agendas and stuff and are all over the place you could make the content very granular and still have it all connected. The mistake began in how they started writing BG2.

 

[Lyric Suite]

The problem with this game is that it's not Baldur's Gate 3. Everything else is besides the point really.

And it's not a question of caring so much about the BG series, it's more a matter of principle. What they did is just so profoundly cynical is almost amusing in a way.

 

[Warlod]

Also I believe the game finishes when you are still low level. Set up for sequels and expansions

 

[Theldaran]

Come ON. Do you really think this can spearhead another Renaissance? Or will it be just another unpolished turd like everything in the last... how many years?? Run your numbers.

 

[Lyric Suite]

It's going to be DOS 2 part 2, no more, no less.