Why do people hate Oblivion so much?

[Egosphere]

Goodall and Kirkbride were no longer there to stamp some of their touch onto the game, whilst Rolston and Nelson for whatever reason could not steer the main game into recreating the quality of its predecessor, perhaps due to all of the lines being voiced. Nelson did however design the top notch Shivering Isles.
Pagliarulo unfortunately proved to be a better level designer than he was writer, even if he did end up writing the most interesting faction in the game (not a high bar to clear)

 

[Funposter]

Solving plotholes with AI:

bandits wear light armour

 

[ind33d]

People who don't like Oblivion have no imagination. I mean that literally: most of the fun is being autistic and pretending to talk to the NPCs, or sitting down to eat even though it has no gameplay effect, or riding a horse from Anvil to Bruma even though fast travel is free. When TTVkillemall420 copies a character build from Discord and speedruns to the ending, no shit he's going to be disappointed.

The video game "The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion" is not fun. Playing Oblivion, listening to the music, interacting with the world, watching the sunset is fun.

 

[ds]

People who don't like Oblivion have no imagination.

The video game "The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion" is not fun.

The thing is, you can larp and make your own fun in any open world game that isn't completely broken. Yeah, Oblivion can be fun. But that doesn't mean people criticizing it are doing it without reason. Oblivion doesn't throw you into a reactive world and then tells to you explore it. It wants to be a game and not just a sandbox. And it does that worse than its predecessor. But it also does the sim part worse in some ways. You already mentioned fast travel: Yeah, you can ignore it (and I agree that you should for the most part) but if ignoring it is the best way to play the game, why is it there. Quests often send you back and forth between towns - without fast travel that can become annoying. And of course there are no other transport methods implemented because they would be redundant with fast travel. Same for the quest compass - you need to go out of your way to mod it out and even that won't give you the experience of a game designed around figuring out where things are on your own. Want to pretend you can talk to NPCs? Well, I saw a mudcrab the other day.

And lol at needing "builds" in elder scrolls games.

 

[M. AQVILA]

I've started a new playthrough of Oblivion after years since my last one and I have to say that, even with all the problems with the game, it is my favorite TES in the whole series.

Daggerfall doesn't do anything impressive in my view, aside from the simulation of a fantasy world and perhaps the player leveling system. The dungeons are too big and monotonous and the quests are likewise monotonous, yet there's no incentive, besides leveling up, that drives me to keep going. The setting is as generic as it gets, most of the good stuff would be introduced in Morrowind. It has the highest "RPG to Action game" rate in the series, let's say 90% RP to 10% action. Which shows especially in the main quest.

Morrowind is a walking simulator that also gets somewhat monotonous fast especially with the annoying combat system, but at least the setting is interesting and the player has the most freedom of any TES game (spells, enchanting, etc). The factions are interesting but their quests, not so much. The rest of the side quests make the setting stand out, but aside from that they're not particularly interesting. The story behind the main quest is probably the best of any TES and it has the best villain, but the quests themselves are nothing to write home about. The "RPGness" starts to decrease in favor of the action, let's say 70% RP to 30% action.

Oblivion has its issues like the enemies and items' leveling system and the uninspired setting. The radiant AI has its ups and downs, but at worst it can be pretty hilarious and at best it provides liveliness to the world. The player leveling system is better than Morrowind, this is where I find the streamlining to be good. The setting of the main game is rather generic on the whole, but certainly not as generic as Daggerfall, especially when you take the main quest into consideration (more on that later). The factions have the most interesting quests of all the TES games, at least I found them to be the most fun. Side quests likewise were also pretty creative and fun for a TES game. The main quest is interesting and later on starts to show the uniqueness of the TES world, to the point that it becomes Morrowind tier in terms of goodness, and I also found the main quests more interesting than Morrowind's. The trend of turning the series into action games continues, let's say 30% RP to 70% action.

Skyrim is mid. It's the most mediocre game that doesn't do anything better than the previous games. The enemies and items' levelling system is better than Oblivion but not as good as the other games. The setting on the whole is better than the other games but nowhere near the level of Morrowind. The faction and side quests are worse than Oblivion but not as bad as the other games. The main quest is not as good as the other games, except at the end when you enter Sovngarde. The worst part of the game is that, If you let yourself, you'll be the leader of every faction without the skills to back your position, like being the Archmage with only knowing how to cast novice spells. Skyrim is barely an RPG, let's say 10% RP to 90% action.

Overall, I think I enjoyed Oblivion the most to be honest. It's not as dumbed down as Skyrim, but it also doesn't have the monotony that I found in previous TES games. The quests are fun and I enjoy the whole experience more than the other games.

 

[Deimos]

I had fun playing Oblivion when I was younger. The only bad things I remember is there only being 7 oblivion layouts with over 50 gates, it got pretty repetitive. And once you get high enough level you have to repair after literally every fight, which made the oblivion gates even more repetitive. I enjoyed exploring the world though

 

[Lemming42]

People who don't like Oblivion have no imagination. I mean that literally: most of the fun is being autistic and pretending to talk to the NPCs, or sitting down to eat even though it has no gameplay effect, or riding a horse from Anvil to Bruma even though fast travel is free. When TTVkillemall420 copies a character build from Discord and speedruns to the ending, no shit he's going to be disappointed.

The video game "The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion" is not fun. Playing Oblivion, listening to the music, interacting with the world, watching the sunset is fun.

You're not wrong but at the same time I'd argue the game doesn't facilitate this in the way it should. LARPing absolutely is a big part of the fun of these games (and of RPGs in general, despite what some Codexers might like to pretend) but Daggerfall, Morrowind, and Skyrim all offer far more LARPing opportunities than Oblivion does.

Daggerfall in particular will accomodate the player in a vast array of different playstyles, including a wealth of non-combat scenarios, and the roguelike elements give the player a great degree of control over their character's journey. Morrowind likes to force the player into tedious combat but at least has a strong array of guilds that the player can define themselves by their membership of (even if the quests are typically boring shit). Skyrim, meanwhile, offers more minor "immersion" details than Oblivion, a bit more environmental interactivity with being able to break into people's houses at night and stir their soup pots and what have you.

Oblivion's big problem (or at least, one of them) is that it doesn't really lean into the LARP potential that the series can offer - no matter how you try to play Oblivion, you are ending up in a copypasted Ayleid Ruin and you are gonna be killing everyone inside. It feels like they set out to make a dungeon crawler first and a world simulation second. Radiant AI does help but it's all a bit half-implemented in the end.

The setting is as generic as it gets, most of the good stuff would be introduced in Morrowind.

Depends whether or not you find Kirkbride's metaphysical shit impressive, versus Daggerfall's political intrigue and feeling of all-encompassing seediness. I've come to find Daggerfall more interesting over the years, I've rarely seen such a good portrayal of a world where absolutely everyone is trying to stab everyone else in the back, and virtually everyone you meet is out to get you in some way. Even Age of Decadence doesn't quite give the same feeling of "get me out of here, these people are cunts" as the Iliac Bay does.

 

[M. AQVILA]

The setting is as generic as it gets, most of the good stuff would be introduced in Morrowind.

Depends whether or not you find Kirkbride's metaphysical shit impressive, versus Daggerfall's political intrigue and feeling of all-encompassing seediness. I've come to find Daggerfall more interesting over the years, I've rarely seen such a good portrayal of a world where absolutely everyone is trying to stab everyone else in the back, and virtually everyone you meet is out to get you in some way. Even Age of Decadence doesn't quite give the same feeling of "get me out of here, these people are cunts" as the Iliac Bay does.

I would put that under the "simulation of a fantasy world" and I agree that it was well done.

 

[goregasm]

I enjoyed breaking the spell making system in Oblivion when it was new. Used to make a "heart attack" spell.

Something like 1000 stamina drain/damage IIRC. Targets would drop like a rock, try to get up, drop again. Then lay there for a few minutes.

Fun times.

I completed the game, but in retrospect it was a bit meh. Took too much granular stuff away from morrowind, it's butt-fuck ugly, and a bit too 2000s "high fantasy" I don't think I could go back to it, nor do I have a desire to.


Meanwhile I still mod and play morrowind or skyrim once or twice every 6 months or so. Just started a Wildlander playthrough yesterday and still fuck around in daggerfall once in a blue moon.

Those games while far from perfect do their one niche well enough to keep me mildly interested from time to time, I don't get that vibe with Oblivion.

 

[rubinstein]

People who don't like Oblivion have no imagination. I mean that literally: most of the fun is being autistic and pretending to talk to the NPCs, or sitting down to eat even though it has no gameplay effect, or riding a horse from Anvil to Bruma even though fast travel is free.

The video game "The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion" is not fun. Playing Oblivion, listening to the music, interacting with the world, watching the sunset is fun.

I remember playing like this when i was 12 yo. Fuck yeah, it was amazing, even if the entertainment didnt last long.

Salmos sweetrolls for breakfast and then taking a stroll around the chapel. Trying not to trip on glarthirs body while heading for a bottle of surilies wine i forgot to buy yesterday. Visiting guilds after lunch to do some business, and then a dinner in the west weald. What an exhausting day! Heading home early, because i feel like i need some rest. Rinse and repeat - tomorrow is going to be busy too.

Damn, no wonder i cannot enjoy oblivion anymore, when i experienced THIS already, over 15 years ago. Peak oblivion moments.

 

[Kabas]

If we are talking about larping i distinctly remember not liking how most of the light armor looked on my Khajiit.
Vastly younger me thought "this is not how a proper thief should dress like" so instead of armor i wore a very a specific set of peasant pants and a shirt looted from a certain NPC. Beat the entire thief's guild quest like that.

 

[Redshirt #42]

I had fun playing Oblivion when I was younger.

I had so little fun playing Oblivion when I was younger that the dissonance between what the reviews said and what the reality was eventually brought me to the Codex. I think I was 15 when it first came out? It was an important moment in my development. It was the same kind of breaking point ("no I will not enjoy what society tells me to enjoy!") as what Shark Tales did to me for movies as a 13 year old, and LOST for TV shows (sadly, I remained a true believer there until the final season). I think you need a wake up moment like that in every form of media.

So, in a way I am grateful for what it taught me. It was good for what it was™.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

When I was a kid, I liked Oblivion more than Skyrim because you could ride a horse in first-person. It's the little things.

 

[Funposter]

as what Shark Tales did to me for movies as a 13 year old

shark tale was reviewed poorly and if you were watching that movie as a 13 year old, you may have had some sort of developmental disorder

 

[Redshirt #42]

I stopped myself before going to the cinema. I think I only had dial-up internet access so I wouldn't have known about the reviews. I just trusted my instinct over what my friends wanted me to do.

 

[musouking]

I played Oblivion after Skyrim, then into Morrowind this year. It's too similar between these two games while Morrowind catches me a lot. Sorry, no nostalgia for Oblivion.

 

[Artyoan]

I enjoyed it but 1) the setting didn't capture me near as much as Morrowind and 2) the level scaling caused me intense ass pain as a mage-type character. The small things do add up to a memorable experience but I had fewer of those in Oblivion than I did in Morrowind and Skyrim.

Combat needs a massive overhaul for ES6. Hard to replay any of them now. Just listening to the soundtrack conjures 90% of the nostalgia too.

 

[Ancient76]

The difference is that Oblivion can be fixed with mods, but with Skyrim that's impossible.

 

[rubinstein]

The difference is that Oblivion can be fixed with mods, but with Skyrim that's impossible.

can it be? can you fix bad writing and poor quest design with mods? because it is possible that mods can fix level scaling, damage modifiers, stealth, magic etc. but why bother installing them if you are left with a game that offers questlines like mages guild, main quests, or collecting nirnroots. even as teenager i thought the quests are lame, maybe except the ones obtained from brotherhood, or some shrines. but nowadays i find them only slightly better than what, for example, fighters guild can offer. its all just different shades of mediocre. i am not sure if modders were able to address it in any meaningful way.

i agree, skyrim is even worse.

 

[BosanskiSeljak]

The difference is that Oblivion can be fixed with mods, but with Skyrim that's impossible.

"Extended cut fixed ME3's endings!"
"Gothic 3 is good now because of patches!"
"Skipping side content & using some QOL mods makes DA:I so good!"

Same shit. You cannot fix something rotten at it's core.

 

[Funposter]

The difference is that Oblivion can be fixed with mods

as someone who has modded a lot of oblivion, that's just flat out wrong lol

 

[Ancient76]

No, it's not wrong.
I have compared Oblivion to Skyrim, and not to the best RPGs we have. The thing is that people are not aware how broken Skyrim is.
In Skyrim you can kill an Emperor and pay a fine for that, and after that you can join Emperor's legion, even though everybody knows what you did. This is not design, but an insult to intelligence. And this is just one example.
Now, i can accept some smaller inconsistencies here and there, even bad writing. But in Skyrim it was too much because every important quest and guild an insult to intelligence.

 

[Lemming42]

In Oblivion you can be the archmage of the Mage's Guild, the Hero of Kvatch, the most renowned person in the galaxy, and still have to pass an entry test for the Thieves' Guild (who let you in despite the fact you're widely known as a friend of the state and a Knight of the Dragon or w/e).

The incredibly forgiving crime system is also true of all TES games except Daggerfall (in which you can still kind of get away with murder, it's just a lot more complicated and consequential since you have to represent yourself in court and then leave the county for a few months until your reputation resets, then start rebuilding trust with whichever demographic or social class you've alienated. Originally they were going to have the death penalty for serious crimes but sadly they took it out during development).

Expecting the world and the actions of people to make much logical sense in MW/Oblivion/Skyrim is a lost cause, they're all games set inside insane asylums full of people with goldfish memories who don't know what's going on beyond their immediate surroundings. I don't think there's any mods to address that for any of those games, which is sort of fine since they're meant to be played as dungeon crawlers rather than social sims.

 

[Harthwain]

In Skyrim you can kill an Emperor and pay a fine for that, and after that you can join Emperor's legion, even though everybody knows what you did. This is not design, but an insult to intelligence. And this is just one example.

This is a result of a design though. The side activities are not connected to the overall behaviour of the game (or the main quest), so killing an Emperor has no real effect as a result.

 

[Ancient76]

In Skyrim you can kill an Emperor and pay a fine for that, and after that you can join Emperor's legion, even though everybody knows what you did. This is not design, but an insult to intelligence. And this is just one example.

This is a result of a design though. The side activities are not connected to the overall behaviour of the game (or the main quest), so killing an Emperor has no real effect as a result.

That's not design, but a simple filler, placeholder, just like a 90% of Skyrim quests, guilds. An abomination.
Killing an Emperor should have consequences, at least with the people who are on his side. That's a proper design.