Why do people hate Oblivion so much?

[mfkndggrfll]

''I haven't cut my dick off so I'm unable to claim such an act is painful.''

Because seeing bandits in glass armor seems as painful as getting your dick cut off from codexers point of view... It remains that this 'flaw' is only observed after serveral hours into the game during which the flaw doesnt happen. By the time you reach that point you should have noticed bigger flaws that are actually worth mentioning in a debate.

''The game never forces you to grind. It is up to you to do quests to get better, or grind on your own. But the game never tells you "GRIND".''

Whats so hard to grasp about the fact that Morrowind requires grinding? I bet you dont like the word 'grind' being associated with Morrowind, I can find some other wording if you prefer. Game requires a repetitive and tedious usage of your skills in order to gain levels in order to unlock content in order to experience the game. Raising combat skills feels like a grind because the combat sucks.

''If you think Morrowind's quests are like that, maybe you need to drop RPGs.''

No, I need to drop Morrowind and play some actual RPG.

''You don't. As you play you will get stronger naturally.''

AFAIK your skills are raised by your actions and dont raise by themselves. Of course you naturally encounter plenty of stuff to spam mouse clicks on, if thats what you mean by natural progression. You dont gain XP and levels from completing quests.

''Tell me which quests require you to be a certain level in order to proceed. Because even when you meet Caius Cosades and he tells you you are inexperienced, nothing stops you from asking the quest from him anyway.''

IIRC after a few errands he basically tells you to fuck off and go grind some more in order to get the next task. Though even if you could unlock the quest, its useless if you are underleveled, which brings us back to the need to grind.

 

[Alkarl]

I actually like Oblivion. I hate that they retconned the Imperial Province lore, that bandit equipment scales the way it does, and the removal of levitate. But otherwise, I consider it a pretty good hybrid of the two games that came before it. It is, at least, vastly superior to Skyrim, in so much that I don't feel like a complete retard if I dump a few hours on it every once in awhile; and the game usually rewards me with more than a few chuckles from its zany ass engine.

 

[mfkndggrfll]

I actually like Oblivion. I hate that they retconned the Imperial Province lore, that bandit equipment scales the way it does, and the removal of levitate. But otherwise, I consider it a pretty good hybrid of the two games that came before it. It is, at least, vastly superior to Skyrim, in so much that I don't feel like a complete retard if I dump a few hours on it every once in awhile; and the game usually rewards me with more than a few chuckles from its zany ass engine.

Its cool to criticize Oblivion and point out its flaws, like with any other game. The issue is that the hate is getting so strong that people are going as far as twisting the facts and ignoring everything that Oblivion did well, i.e. saying it has bad writing and bad quest design.

This is bad for the industry in general, when people bash good games for no reason. How is Bethesda supposed to improve their games if the 'criticism' they get is inaccurate and inconsistant.

 

[Sigourn]

Because seeing bandits in glass armor seems as painful as getting your dick cut off from codexers point of view... It remains that this 'flaw' is only observed after serveral hours into the game during which the flaw doesnt happen. By the time you reach that point you should have noticed bigger flaws that are actually worth mentioning in a debate.

That you find it after you have spent significant time in the game only makes it worse. Because you should feel extremely powerful, but nope, everyone and their dog has glass armor now.

Whats so hard to grasp about the fact that Morrowind requires grinding?

Nothing. Because there is no grinding in Morrowind. Dragon Quest requires grinding. In Dragon Quest you spend HOURS upon HOURS upon HOURS doing nothing but grinding, because the only way to get exp in it is to beat enemies, and the only way to beat stronger enemies is to first grind with the weaker enemies. And leveling up takes a lot of time.

Game requires a repetitive and tedious usage of your skills in order to gain levels in order to unlock content in order to experience the game.

It's simply not true.

Raising combat skills feels like a grind because the combat sucks.

This makes no sense whatsoever, and it's ultimately your opinion. Waiting for the train to go to college feels like a grind because it sucks.

No, I need to drop Morrowind and play some actual RPG.

Like Oblivion, right?

AFAIK your skills are raised by your actions and dont raise by themselves.

No shit. You don't level up in RPGs just by sitting on your ass and looking at the screen like a Down syndrome's.

You dont gain XP and levels from completing quests.

You gain XP and levels by doing the stuff needed to complete quests. If you are asked to kill some rats, the experience you gain depends on what skills you use, whether it is magic (in one of its many schools) or combat (in one of its many styles). Likewise when you persuade someone with Speech, buy stuff needed with Barter, and even moving around (Acrobatics and Athletics). Making the potions needed to survive a certain cave. And much more.

IIRC after a few errands he basically tells you to fuck off and go grind some more in order to get the next task.

The only main quest I've found which requires you to be of a certain level is Vivec Informants. You are required to be at least level 3. THREE. Never, ever, in my entire time of playing Morrowind, not even in my first playthrough, was I unable to do this quest. You have no fucking idea of what "grinding" is. I recommend you to play Dragon Warrior.

 

[mfkndggrfll]

Well here's a fact, Morrowind's content has fixed levels. That means you need to have at least 1 combat skill to be high enough (or a mix of gear/buffs/enchant/etc) in order to take on the late game and higher level content. To achieve that high combat skill you need an X amount of mouse clicks and repeated actions. That is the grind.

You say 'play naturally' but that sounds like 'force yourself to play' to me. I cant do specific high level content without grinding through other content that I have no interest in first. That is the grind.

 

[Sigourn]

Well here's a fact, Morrowind's content has fixed levels. That means you need to have at least 1 combat skill to be high enough (or a mix of gear/buffs/enchant/etc) in order to take on the late game and higher level content. To achieve that high combat skill you need an X amount of mouse clicks and repeated actions. That is the grind.

"Playing the game" is grind? Are you implying there's any RPG you can beat without pressing ANY buttons whatsoever?

You say 'play naturally' but that sounds like 'force yourself to play' to me.

BAN this faggot already.

 

[Citizen]

Are you implying there's any RPG you can beat without pressing ANY buttons whatsoever?

Do awesome buttons count?

 

[Lazing Dirk]

@LazingDirk Even then, a lush jungle isnt composed of a single tree model. There would need to be a crapton of other unique assets to make it look good, which counters your point about only needing space for a single model.

It wasn't my point, it was someone else's. I just felt like putting numbers to it. Also: Crysis.

 

[TripJack]

morrowind only had 2 things going for it- the weird world of vvardenfell and kirkbrides drug journals lore books

oblivion dumped the first and majorly curtailed the second, leaving nothing of value

 

[nikolokolus]

If you approach Oblivion like a really shitty '80s movie then you'll get a lot of hilarity and fun out of the experience.

A shitty 80s movie is only going to cost me 90 minutes of my life. This fucking thing on the other hand . . .

 

[WalkinDude]

i can't believe this low quality bait is able to sucker in so many 'codexers' in 2018

 

[Wayward Son]

What if all quests reek of MMORPG filler trash?

I don't really think the majority of Morrowind quests feel that way at all.

You need to grind your combat skills for sure.

No not really. You just use them as necessary. In fact, there isn't much of a way to grind your combat skills since all or almost all creatures in Morrowind are hand placed and non-respawning.

IIRC people grind in MMO just to reach the next level and unlock more quests,

They do.

which is the same as Morrowind.

Not at all, since you don't hit random trash mobs for minor amounts of XP in order to meet some arbitrary level requirement. The only time a specific level in anything is required is when you need to advance in a guild to access the higher difficulty more important jobs (which occurs naturally as you do their quests and use the money to increase your skills along with skill gains along the way) and for specific portions of he MQ, wherein Caius tells you to go out and experience the world and you play the game by joining guilds and doing side quests and adventuring.

 

[Wysardry]

Frost trolls are tough to kill.

 

[Alkarl]

good games

Now, I never said Oblivion was good. I said I liked it. For what it is, it's ok imo. Good? No. Morrowind is close to good, Daggerfall is interesting, but I've yet to play a Bethesda game that was good. Or at least, that culminated in a competent rpg experience. Bethesda certainly makes very pretty time sinks, but the only thing standing between you and being the most powerful being in the land is how much time you're willing to invest.

 

[Wayward Son]

Alkarl you should play Arena. It's an almost completely different game from the rest and is a competently made RPG with well designed dungeons (for the main story ones anyway, the rest are random).

 

[Alkarl]

Alkarl you should play Arena. It's an almost completely different game from the rest and is a competently made RPG with well designed dungeons (for the main story ones anyway, the rest are random).

Arena isn't bad at all. It's worst offense being the easily remedied control scheme. I guess I forgot about Arena, almost feels like it was made by a completely different company at this point. Different people, with different goals, for sure. I've never finished it though. Might be about time.

 

[PorkBarrellGuy]

i can't believe this low quality bait is able to sucker in so many 'codexers' in 2018

we're bored, OK

 

[Quillon]

Why hate the game? Game doesn't care, it doesn't have feelings. Hate people who made it! Harass them on the interwebz! Make them experience hell on earth! Hire a hitman, then make him clean your house so he can't kill people for the time being. Be a good person.

 

[mfkndggrfll]

i can't believe this low quality bait is able to sucker in so many 'codexers' in 2018

hey wanna play some HoMM2 bro? bet you wouldnt last a round against me

 

[PorkBarrellGuy]

whoever invented the Speechcraft minigame should be fired

out of a cannon





at something spiky

 

[Alkarl]

whoever invented the Speechcraft minigame should be fired

out of a cannon





at something spiky

I love it, but ..
"I wont fight you!"

I don't remember where I first heard it but the term "conversation pie" has stuck with me when talking about this system.

Morrowinds speech system annoyed me far more than Oblivions. In Morrowind, you get a few options to persuade or intimidate and then you get the same generic, albeit unvoiced, line and you keep doing it till you achieve the effect you want. The problem is, if you're trying to piss them off to attack you, it's far faster and easier to just murder them and pay the fine. If you need something from them, pickpocket is much easier to level, or again, just murder them since the fine will generally be cheaper than bribes. I hated the quests that forced you to use this system to some degree. Surely we can agree that speech has always been a garbage skill in these games.

 

[PorkBarrellGuy]

Surely we can agree that speech has always been a garbage skill in these games.

Oh, absolutely. I mean, even the flattery option in Morrowind Speechcraft is nearly instantly outmoded by the Bribe option. Once you get your legs in Morrowind gold flows like water. Speechcraft is one of the WORST skills in Morrowind, hands-fucking-down and is generally only useful for getting a 5x multiplier on Personality if for some reason Illusion isn't an option.

 

[DalekFlay]

Defending Oblivion on RPGCodex is a weird hobby to choose.

 

[Fargus]

Oh, absolutely. I mean, even the flattery option in Morrowind Speechcraft is nearly instantly outmoded by the Bribe option. Once you get your legs in Morrowind gold flows like water. Speechcraft is one of the WORST skills in Morrowind, hands-fucking-down and is generally only useful for getting a 5x multiplier on Personality if for some reason Illusion isn't an option.

Sometimes it's useful if you want to taunt someone into attacking you, kill him and take his shit without receiving any bounty.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Level scaling is good because you don't actually need to play the game.

Great stuff here, folks.

And isn't this game like Game of the Century or whatever? Who hates is?
Some serious self-esteem issues you have there if only a few people out of millions who don't like what you like cause you such a severe butthurt.