World of Darkness Werewolf: The Apocalypse – Earthblood - action-RPG adaptation from Cyanide

[Chainsaw Gutsfuck]

Speaking of which, playing even the PnP version of Mage can get downright impossible with creative players unless some house rules are implemented. IIRC, the mechanics are such that even a starting Mage character can make a tiny hole in space (or a portal, if you will) from here to the core of the Sun and basically destroy Earth, and only take 3-4 Bashing levels of damage from Paradox.

So the Wyrm can destroy the earth by recruiting one sorcerer?

 

[v1rus]

Mage > Werewolf > Vampire

Vampire > Mage > The Fallen > Fae >> Werewolf > KotE

Anyone claiming otherwise is a fag.

Dealing with strange otherwordly shit and cosmic-level threats beats playing goth mafia.

Just picture the dude wearing a lot of fur and that's Werewolf accurately summed up.

VtM -> WtO -> KotE -> HtR -> MtA -> WtA -> DtF ->>>>>>>>>>>>>> FATAL >>>>>>>>>> CtD

I don't think ninjas are part of the fad cycle.

Care to tell us noobs what those acronyms mean? Would greatly value any knowledge about this stuff.

Nvm, got it. Now, why is CtD that bad? From what I've seen now, its the only one beside the big three to get a 20th anniversary edition, so it prolly sold well. If you could share any more points on pro/cons of the systems, I'd be eternally grateful.

 

[Chainsaw Gutsfuck]

Just google white wolf + the acronyms

 

[v1rus]

Just google white wolf + the acronyms

Ye, did that before I posted, couldnt match any of those. As soon as I posted, scrolled up, and what do you know, found a perfect match for each one. Thats the way internet works :/

 

[Chainsaw Gutsfuck]

Now, why is CtD bad? From what I've seen now, its the only one beside the big three to get a 20th anniversary edition, so it prolly sold well.

Changeling is like a sad fairy tale, it's just too dreamy and melancholic for many.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

Nvm, got it. Now, why is CtD that bad? From what I've seen now, its the only one beside the big three to get a 20th anniversary edition, so it prolly sold well. If you could share any more points on pro/cons of the systems, I'd be eternally grateful.

I've made this helpful diagram especially for you.

 

[v1rus]

Nvm, got it. Now, why is CtD that bad? From what I've seen now, its the only one beside the big three to get a 20th anniversary edition, so it prolly sold well. If you could share any more points on pro/cons of the systems, I'd be eternally grateful.

I've made this helpful diagram especially for you.

Well... I do luv muh elves ^^

 

[Lambach]

Now, why is CtD that bad?

Like Chainsaw Gutsfuck (monocled taste in music, by the way ) said, it's a WoD-y take on the classic fairytale formula. Not everyone's cup of tea, but I found it interesting enough. Certainly better than the "ME DOGGO ME HIT WYRM AND GET EXP TO LEVEL UP RAAAAWR!" trite.

 

[Rahdulan]

Nvm, got it. Now, why is CtD that bad? From what I've seen now, its the only one beside the big three to get a 20th anniversary edition, so it prolly sold well. If you could share any more points on pro/cons of the systems, I'd be eternally grateful.

Honestly? Because it was outdone by CtL in practically every way. I also wouldn't look to Kickstarter's anniversary edition as anything other than limited per-order print run and there's an audience for everything out there, Changeling included.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

Now, why is CtD that bad?

Like Chainsaw Gutsfuck (monocled taste in music, by the way ) said, it's a WoD-y take on the classic fairytale formula. Not everyone's cup of tea, but I found it interesting enough. Certainly better than the "ME DOGGO ME HIT WYRM AND GET EXP TO LEVEL UP RAAAAWR!" trite.

While it's true that WtA was probably the most combat-oriented from the bunch, but it was much more than just Eco-terrorism and Crinos Fucks the Shit Up. Umbra allowed for very interesting campaigns, akin to Planescape in many aspects. Bone Gnawers and Glass Walkers, who operated in cities, were ideal foil for dragging the pack into noir or techno-thriller story, etc.

But both players and Storytellers in Russia in early 00s were blessed in some aspects, we didn't have fucking furries or otherkin. I shudder to think of whom playerbase consists now.

 

[Kev Inkline]

I think Stainless Veteran put it more eloquently what I was after in the previous posts.

As for fighting for Gaia:

 

[Lambach]

While it's true that WtA was probably the most combat-oriented from the bunch, but it was much more than just Eco-terrorism and Crinos Fucks the Shit Up. Umbra allowed for very interesting campaigns, akin to Planescape in many aspects. Bone Gnawers and Glass Walkers, who operated at cities, were ideal foil for dragging the pack into noir or techno-thriller story, etc.

My main beef with the Wolves is that if you take away the combat, there's really not all that much left. Noir thrillers are handled far better by Vampire and otherworldly mysteries are handled better by Mage. Generally speaking, if you want a pure combat game like most Werewolf games inevitably descend into, you're better off just playing D&D. Or maybe run a Sabbat Chronicle if you're feeling rebellious.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

While it's true that WtA was probably the most combat-oriented from the bunch, but it was much more than just Eco-terrorism and Crinos Fucks the Shit Up. Umbra allowed for very interesting campaigns, akin to Planescape in many aspects. Bone Gnawers and Glass Walkers, who operated at cities, were ideal foil for dragging the pack into noir or techno-thriller story, etc.

My main beef with the Wolves is that if you take away the combat, there's really not all that much left. Noir thrillers are handled far better by Vampire and otherworldly mysteries are handled better by Mage. Generally speaking, if you want a pure combat game like most Werewolf games inevitably descend into, you're better off just playing D&D. Or maybe run a Sabbat Chronicle if you're feeling rebellious.

I disagree. Garou have the additional layer of the playing field, similar to shamans and deckers in Shadowrun, but without the hassle of the whole party waiting for its decker. It gives a Storyteller not only additional plots for chronicle, it also makes the gameplay different from VtM in even noir thriller. Of course, a Storyteller needs a good party which wants such things. If you're stuck with combat munchkins than yeah, you better off playing D&D or Pathfinder.

 

[Fedora Master]

Nvm, got it. Now, why is CtD that bad? From what I've seen now, its the only one beside the big three to get a 20th anniversary edition, so it prolly sold well. If you could share any more points on pro/cons of the systems, I'd be eternally grateful.

I've made this helpful diagram especially for you.

Let's be honest here, all WW games attract one sort of degenerate or another. Vampire is for goths and edgelords, Werewolf is for furries and hippies and Mage is basically THAT GUY: The game.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

Nvm, got it. Now, why is CtD that bad? From what I've seen now, its the only one beside the big three to get a 20th anniversary edition, so it prolly sold well. If you could share any more points on pro/cons of the systems, I'd be eternally grateful.

I've made this helpful diagram especially for you.

Let's be honest here, all WW games attract one sort of degenerate or another. Vampire is for goths and edgelords, Werewolf is for furries and hippies and Mage is basically THAT GUY: The game.

Well, true, but as I said, when I was a Storyteller in 00s in Russia. We had a different crowd than in USA or Europe. Goths usually played among their own, we had no open furries among our RPG community (don't know about closeted ones though). I don't recall any hippies either. Otherkin and assorted tumblr scum were in their nappies back then. We had plenty of edgelords, of course, but the truly unhinged always flocked to CtD for some reason. I blame our Tolkien LARP crowd, which was huge back then and for the most part consisted of rather insane individuals. It overlapped with RPG crowd, and weirdos tend to attract each other. And so all CtD chronicles in which I played were fucking awful, I also tried to GM a few chronicles, but swiftly gave up because of the players and their dramas. Never had such problems with VtM or WtA (or WtO, although I never found enough players for a wraith-only chronicle). Never GMd MtA, but when I played it, it was way more munchkin-y than WtA. But still, in our crowd mages attracted two categories - munchkins and neo-pagans/wiccans. The later crowd often played among their own, so I've seen mostly munchkins.

 

[v1rus]

Nvm, got it. Now, why is CtD that bad? From what I've seen now, its the only one beside the big three to get a 20th anniversary edition, so it prolly sold well. If you could share any more points on pro/cons of the systems, I'd be eternally grateful.

I've made this helpful diagram especially for you.

Let's be honest here, all WW games attract one sort of degenerate or another. Vampire is for goths and edgelords, Werewolf is for furries and hippies and Mage is basically THAT GUY: The game.

Well, true, but as I said, when I was a Storyteller in 00s in Russia. We had a different crowd than in USA or Europe. Goths usually played among their own, we had no open furries among our RPG community (don't know about closeted ones though). I don't recall any hippies either. Otherkin and assorted tumblr scum were in their nappies back then. We had plenty of edgelords, of course, but the truly unhinged always flocked to CtD for some reason. I blame our Tolkien LARP crowd, which was huge back then and for the most part consisted of rather insane individuals. It overlapped with RPG crowd, and weirdos tend to attract each other. And so all CtD chronicles in which I played were fucking awful, I also tried to GM a few chronicles, but swiftly gave up because of the players and their dramas. Never had such problems with VtM or WtA (or WtO, although I never found enough players for a wraith-only chronicle). Never GMd MtA, but when I played it, it was way more munchkin-y than WtA. But still, in our crowd mages attracted two categories - munchkins and neo-pagans/wiccans. The later crowd often played among their own, so I've seen mostly munchkins.

I presume you also DM'ed DnD - how would you compare WW stuff to DnD 3.5? By that, I mean, how harder/easier is it for the DM/Storyteller, and how hard its to get into it?

 

[Stainless Veteran]

Well, true, but as I said, when I was a Storyteller in 00s in Russia. We had a different crowd than in USA or Europe. Goths usually played among their own, we had no open furries among our RPG community (don't know about closeted ones though). I don't recall any hippies either. Otherkin and assorted tumblr scum were in their nappies back then. We had plenty of edgelords, of course, but the truly unhinged always flocked to CtD for some reason. I blame our Tolkien LARP crowd, which was huge back then and for the most part consisted of rather insane individuals. It overlapped with RPG crowd, and weirdos tend to attract each other. And so all CtD chronicles in which I played were fucking awful, I also tried to GM a few chronicles, but swiftly gave up because of the players and their dramas. Never had such problems with VtM or WtA (or WtO, although I never found enough players for a wraith-only chronicle). Never GMd MtA, but when I played it, it was way more munchkin-y than WtA. But still, in our crowd mages attracted two categories - munchkins and neo-pagans/wiccans. The later crowd often played among their own, so I've seen mostly munchkins.

I presume you also DM'ed DnD - how would you compare WW stuff to DnD 3.5? By that, I mean, how harder/easier is it for the DM/Storyteller, and how hard its to get into it?

Never DM'd DnD 3.5, only AD&D. And even in AD&D I preferred playing to DM'ing. For a storyfag GM such as myself oWoD is way easier and simutaniously gives more tools than AD&D. First I've read VtM corebook, liked it, and switched from AD&D completely, never looked back. For a combatfag or systemfag GM oWoD is probably worse than AD&D (or D&D 3.5, but I've mostly played PC RPG versions, so I can't say for sure). oWoD is hardly balanced, you can make monstrously strong PC if your GM don't know how to counter it, and steamroll many fights. Also don't get me started on Mage: the Ascension, it's a munchkin's heaven. All in all, it depends on what type of GM you are, and what players you want to attract or already have.

 

[v1rus]

Well, true, but as I said, when I was a Storyteller in 00s in Russia. We had a different crowd than in USA or Europe. Goths usually played among their own, we had no open furries among our RPG community (don't know about closeted ones though). I don't recall any hippies either. Otherkin and assorted tumblr scum were in their nappies back then. We had plenty of edgelords, of course, but the truly unhinged always flocked to CtD for some reason. I blame our Tolkien LARP crowd, which was huge back then and for the most part consisted of rather insane individuals. It overlapped with RPG crowd, and weirdos tend to attract each other. And so all CtD chronicles in which I played were fucking awful, I also tried to GM a few chronicles, but swiftly gave up because of the players and their dramas. Never had such problems with VtM or WtA (or WtO, although I never found enough players for a wraith-only chronicle). Never GMd MtA, but when I played it, it was way more munchkin-y than WtA. But still, in our crowd mages attracted two categories - munchkins and neo-pagans/wiccans. The later crowd often played among their own, so I've seen mostly munchkins.

I presume you also DM'ed DnD - how would you compare WW stuff to DnD 3.5? By that, I mean, how harder/easier is it for the DM/Storyteller, and how hard its to get into it?

Never DM'd DnD 3.5, only AD&D. And even in AD&D I preferred playing to DM'ing. For a storyfag GM such as myself oWoD is way easier and simutaniously gives more tools than AD&D. First I've read VtM corebook, liked it, and switched from AD&D completely, never looked back. For a combatfag or systemfag GM oWoD is probably worse than AD&D (or D&D 3.5, but I've mostly played PC RPG versions, so I can't say for sure). oWoD is hardly balanced, you can make monstrously strong PC if your GM don't know how to counter it, and steamroll many fights. Also don't get me started on Mage: the Ascension, it's a munchkin's heaven. All in all, it depends on what type of GM you are, and what players you want to attract or already have.

Considering our last attempt at DnD ended 1/8 into DMs planned material for that session, since we crushed his will to live with the enormously prolonged combat (dude, I can totally switch places with him. I just catch him and spin around my axis), I think less combat heavy games would fit us better. Which one of WoDs would you recommend for starting? Bonus points if it has pre-determined campaigns which dont stretch for months.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

Well, true, but as I said, when I was a Storyteller in 00s in Russia. We had a different crowd than in USA or Europe. Goths usually played among their own, we had no open furries among our RPG community (don't know about closeted ones though). I don't recall any hippies either. Otherkin and assorted tumblr scum were in their nappies back then. We had plenty of edgelords, of course, but the truly unhinged always flocked to CtD for some reason. I blame our Tolkien LARP crowd, which was huge back then and for the most part consisted of rather insane individuals. It overlapped with RPG crowd, and weirdos tend to attract each other. And so all CtD chronicles in which I played were fucking awful, I also tried to GM a few chronicles, but swiftly gave up because of the players and their dramas. Never had such problems with VtM or WtA (or WtO, although I never found enough players for a wraith-only chronicle). Never GMd MtA, but when I played it, it was way more munchkin-y than WtA. But still, in our crowd mages attracted two categories - munchkins and neo-pagans/wiccans. The later crowd often played among their own, so I've seen mostly munchkins.

I presume you also DM'ed DnD - how would you compare WW stuff to DnD 3.5? By that, I mean, how harder/easier is it for the DM/Storyteller, and how hard its to get into it?

Never DM'd DnD 3.5, only AD&D. And even in AD&D I preferred playing to DM'ing. For a storyfag GM such as myself oWoD is way easier and simutaniously gives more tools than AD&D. First I've read VtM corebook, liked it, and switched from AD&D completely, never looked back. For a combatfag or systemfag GM oWoD is probably worse than AD&D (or D&D 3.5, but I've mostly played PC RPG versions, so I can't say for sure). oWoD is hardly balanced, you can make monstrously strong PC if your GM don't know how to counter it, and steamroll many fights. Also don't get me started on Mage: the Ascension, it's a munchkin's heaven. All in all, it depends on what type of GM you are, and what players you want to attract or already have.

Considering our last attempt at DnD ended 1/8 into DMs planned material for that session, since we crushed his will to live with the enormously prolonged combat (dude, I can totally switch places with him. I just catch him and spin around my axis), I think less combat heavy games would fit us better. Which one of WoDs would you recommend for starting? Bonus points if it has pre-determined campaigns which dont stretch for months.

Uh, it depends on a GM. oWoD had two main lineups - modern and medieval. Medieval was less popular, it required at least some knowledge of the contemporary setting and rules (it also consisted of basically Vampire and Mage). oWoD's most popular contemporary lineups was VtM, it has the most material published, including some starter adventures (although not much in comparison with DnD, oWoD always relied more on a Storyteller to create a chronicle). WtA and MtA were probably the second and the third in popularity. All lineups shared the same metaplot, which was both the blessing of oWoD and its curse. For starting players I would've recommended either VtM or WtA. GM theoreticaly can start without reading any bonus material, only Corebooks and Storyteller's Companion and Handbook. Players only need the Corebook. For optimal game Storyteller needs also to learn mechanics and ban cheesy builds, and read supplementary material, such as Clanbooks, Tribebooks, etc.

 

[Delterius]

Changeling's alternate title -- Autism Neuroatypical the Wishful Thinking -- is quite telling of its tragedy.

 

[Storyfag]

how would you compare WW stuff to DnD 3.5? By that, I mean, how harder/easier is it for the DM/Storyteller, and how hard its to get into it?

DnD 3.5 is basically Spreadsheet: the Game. oWoD is much simpler and more elegant.

 

[the_1990]

I get the feeling this game won't have much to it.

We'll probably get a short, relatively faithful, linear action RPG with an average to serviceable story with an appropriate atmosphere which won't have any severe or glaring problems.

And then everyone will forget about it two seconds later because there's just no "there" there. The story will be short and relatively linear, not having much replay value, other content will just not be engaging enough to keep players coming back to the game, and the only thing that will keep people interested will probably be the occasional DLC adding a new tribe.

That seems to be the kind of game Cyanide makes, and Focus Home publishes.

 

[Beastro]

I am not asking to censor anything like you commies mostly do, I am just stating my preference.

I think the tree-hugging approach was always the weakness of werewolf, why not have just primal rage and spirits and some animism?

I don't get it. To me things like Werewolves are unnatural intrusions of the supernatural into the order of things, but an "older", European idea of Werewolves seems to have been conflated with some animistic idea of spirit animal transformation or something n the past few decades.

 

[Iznaliu]

I get the feeling this game won't have much to it.

We'll probably get a short, relatively faithful, linear action RPG with an average to serviceable story with an appropriate atmosphere which won't have any severe or glaring problems.

And then everyone will forget about it two seconds later because there's just no "there" there. The story will be short and relatively linear, not having much replay value, other content will just not be engaging enough to keep players coming back to the game, and the only thing that will keep people interested will probably be the occasional DLC adding a new tribe.

That seems to be the kind of game Cyanide makes, and Focus Home publishes.

This is such a shame, but it sounds like it'll be the case.

 

[deama]

I am not asking to censor anything like you commies mostly do, I am just stating my preference.

I think the tree-hugging approach was always the weakness of werewolf, why not have just primal rage and spirits and some animism?

I don't get it. To me things like Werewolves are unnatural intrusions of the supernatural into the order of things, but an "older", European idea of Werewolves seems to have been conflated with some animistic idea of spirit animal transformation or something n the past few decades.

If the idea was to just plob werewolves into our world then yes, it wouldn't be a natural phenomenon. But what about a world where werewolves have existed for 50,000+ years? Would that make it unnatural?