Water is the most underrated element on fantasy.

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Hahahaha, oh no don't kill me with a super soaker!

Hahahahahaha.

 

[Cryomancer]

´What they really should do is to replace boring water with some more fun liquid. Blood, bile, semen... so many fun fluids.

Water is not boring, however, blood magic is interesting.



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I also tested City of Heroes. Quite good. Still hate the low lethality and cooldowns, it is nowere near as good as gothic 2 + returning

Water is a pain in the ass to make look like water. Transparency, refraction, splashes, wetness, etc. So, it's often avoided or made a major feature to justify the expense.

Yep. But nobody is asking for Bioshock style water effects in RPG's.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

It's all about the visual too. Water doesn't have cool visuals.

Fire? Think of an entire city burning. AWESOME.

Electricity? Think of a stormy night sky being illuminated by a mighty bolt of lightning. BADASS.

Air? Think of a raging tornado laying waste to everything in its path. COOL.

Water? SURFS UP, DUDES.

 

[Haba]

Hahahaha, oh no don't kill me with a super soaker!

Hahahahahaha.

You just need one water spell.

Destroy Water.

You destroy up to 10 gallons of water in an open container within range." In addition, "When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, you create or destroy 10 additional gallons of water".

Of course D&D is gay, and for some retarded reason doesn't let you target a creature or an area with the spell. Because "muh balance".

 

[Cryomancer]

Water doesn't have cool visuals.

? Think of a raging tornado laying waste to everything in its path.

Why a "tornado" is cool but a "hurricane" of rotating water is not cool? And how the water spells which I mentioned here aren't cool?

Destroy Water.

D&D 5E has one of teh worst magery of tabletop gaming, losing only to D&D 4E. World of Darkness, Gurps and Previous editions of D&D >>> 5E

 

[Alex]

Pathfinder Water Elementarist is a wizard specialization which I always wanted to try but I no longer have a 3.5E/PF1E group and could't find any mod which adds it to 3/pf1E games. Modern games like Solasta tries to implement more verticality. Water current naturally created or created by magic would be a pretty interesting way to explore the game's verticality. But no, zero water based spells on Solasta.

Dungeons & Dragons almost from the beginning had Ice Storm as an iconic 4th level spell, introduced in Supplement I: Greyhawk. Just as the element of air is generally represented by lighting/shock effects, so the element of water is generally represented by ice effects. Solasta does in fact include Ice Storm, as well as an ice-based offensive cantrip (Ray of Frost). Cold-based spells are also often linked with water, e.g. Otiluke's Freezing Sphere.

To be fair, though, ice became a "para-element", mixing air and water, at least since the Manual of the Planes, no?

If anything, it's earth-based spells that tend to be scarce in both D&D and in CRPGs.

You are not wrong, but the few earth elemental spells we do get in (A)D&D tend to be pretty good for dungeon exploration. Stuff like dig or stone shape or passwall are pretty iconic.

Elemental magic is a relatively new, and in fact, limiting paradigm. It’s convenient to use in cRPGs, but stunted.

Spell casting in older PnP D&D was far more imaginative, poetic, and fantastical.

You are not wrong. I still consider D&D as having the best spells overall than any other game... which is kinda sad given how many other games have had the opportunity to try something at least interesting in the meantime. Spells in D&D, more than just a combat tool, are elements of the setting. They are there to show what a wizard or a cleric should be capable of accomplishing. In fact, many spells are there more to justify some dungeon designs than to be really used by the players (though creative players might well make some use of them). Furthermore, spells tend to have their own logic, rather than depending on some simple scheme like elemental forces or whatever.

This said, GURPS I mentioned earlier does a really good job of trying the opposite approach. Spells there tend to fall nicely inside some category, which the game calls "college". These categories tend to be approached in a very systematic way. For instance, each elemental college has a seek spell (which allows you to look for an object that is made of the element, or maybe a specific instance of the element; for example, you could use seek air to look specifically for breathable air, and exclude the atmosphere itself, to search for air pockets underground or underwater. The vision spell allows you to see through a certain element, the "ball" spell will create a ball of the element which you throw, while the jet will create a stream of the element coming from your hands. The fact that you have each of these spells for all (or most) elements make they seem less interesting than AD&D, where spells might be more unique. But GURPS still pulls this well because each college still has a lot of very varied spells. In fact, it might be said GURPS mages are badly served as far as damage spells go! In a mixed campaign, a soldier with a grenade launcher might word better as the classical mage than a normal mage would. In fact, the grenade launcher in GURPS has some pretty interesting "utility" uses, such as launching a camera over enemy territory. Still, GURPS mages can have a whole lot of uses. And while the elemental spells (and some other colleges as well) may have a lot of shared spell themes, these spells are hardly equivalent. For instance, every element gets a "body of element" spell. But each of these give the caster very different abilities. A body of air spell would allow the mage to pass through the smallest fissures, for instance. A body of lightning on the other hand allows the mage to travel through wires and eat electricity to heal.

 

[Cross]

Water should be the most versatile element, since it can be manipulated into 3 different forms: fluid, ice and steam/fog. To their credit, the D:OS games are some of the few RPGs to really utilize this aspect. There are also possibilities for non-combat stuff: in Lands of Lore you could use the Freeze spell to safely travel through the swamp by freezing surfaces that would otherwise sink you.

Water magic as just another flavor of damage isn't terribly exciting, although I do like the quirk that the undead are immune to cold damage.

 

[Dyspaire]

Burrrrrn. Burrrrrrrrn.

 

[Sykar]

´What they really should do is to replace boring water with some more fun liquid. Blood, bile, semen... so many fun fluids.

Water is not boring, however, blood magic is interesting.



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I also tested City of Heroes. Quite good. Still hate the low lethality and cooldowns, it is nowere near as good as gothic 2 + returning

Water is a pain in the ass to make look like water. Transparency, refraction, splashes, wetness, etc. So, it's often avoided or made a major feature to justify the expense.

Yep. But nobody is asking for Bioshock style water effects in RPG's.

Huh? Blaster kills fast and dies fast, except against Elite Bosses and up, those are true damage sponges like most bosses in MMOs. CDs can be reduced substantially and in fact many power sets can achieve enough CDR that they can have a consistent 2-3 damage ability cycle if they wish it. I prefer that over mind numbingly spamming the same ability over and over and over like in games like Path of Exile.

 

[Endless]

Screw water magic, I'm waiting for a RPG where you can piss on people.

 

[ExposedBrainMatter]

Element of surprise doesn't get enough love.

 

[Sykar]

Screw water magic, I'm waiting for a RPG where you can piss on people.

Ah, so you were the DM of this one!

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Screw water magic, I'm waiting for a RPG where you can piss on people.

Convince someone to develop a CRPG based on Gulliver's Travels, specifically the Lilliput section:

Spoiler

 

[Gradenmayer]

Cause water is for losers.

Everyone knows that Earth is the best element: Free food, cucks both water and fire (like wtf fire gonna do to stone?).
You can just spawn stone shelter wherever you want (both above and underground)- rain, snow, cold, tornados ain't shit for earth mage. Want fire?- just hit two rocks together real hard. Want water? -just dig 'till you find underground water currents.
Want to kick someone's ass?- just throw rock at them. While water peasants have to use insane water pressure to kill anything and fire losers have to spend eternity burning their enemies, you just instantly crush someone's skull with high velocity blunt damage missile.

Earth is the best element- defensively, offensively and in terms of utility. Water is just so boring, people have to transform it into niche versions (like blood magic, beer magic, ice magic and shit like that) to make it more interesting (and the fact that it works tells you how much it sucks as an element).

 

[MajorMace]

Well for some reason the URL to the evolution chart of the water elemental in M&M series keep changing, I'm sorry fellow codex readers.

 

[Cryomancer]

r mind numbingly spamming the same ability over and over and over like in games like Path of Exile.

I partially agree.Ideally, you will have no cooldown and a lot of situational skills. Eg? Dragon's Dogma. Ricochet shot can be the highest DPS skill in the game VS living armor on CQB and worthless vs lightning dragons at range.

What I hate on mmos is that they have no variation. Is just mana bar + cooldown. Look on tabletop gaming, GURPS and D&D handles supernatural powers in completely different ways. Both consistent with the game's lore.

While water peasants have to use insane water pressure to kill anything and fire losers have to spend eternity burning their enemies, you just instantly crush someone's skull with high velocity blunt damage missile.

Earth is the best element- defensively, offensively and in terms of utility. Water is just so boring, people have to transform it into niche versions (like blood magic, beer magic, ice magic and shit like that) to make it more interesting

No. Earth is worthless vs incorporeal stuff. And the reason which you can """mix""" water with other elements is simple. Water is everywhere. Blood has water. Is not "transformed into a niche element". Ice/Steam are not "other elements". Are just water in different forms. And you don't need high pressure to kill someone. Just evaporate their internal body water or shape water as a ice lance and impale the enemy.

 

[Gradenmayer]

r mind numbingly spamming the same ability over and over and over like in games like Path of Exile.

I partially agree.Ideally, you will have no cooldown and a lot of situational skills. Eg? Dragon's Dogma. Ricochet shot can be the highest DPS skill in the game VS living armor on CQB and worthless vs lightning dragons at range.

What I hate on mmos is that they have no variation. Is just mana bar + cooldown. Look on tabletop gaming, GURPS and D&D handles supernatural powers in completely different ways. Both consistent with the game's lore.

While water peasants have to use insane water pressure to kill anything and fire losers have to spend eternity burning their enemies, you just instantly crush someone's skull with high velocity blunt damage missile.

Earth is the best element- defensively, offensively and in terms of utility. Water is just so boring, people have to transform it into niche versions (like blood magic, beer magic, ice magic and shit like that) to make it more interesting

No. Earth is worthless vs incorporeal stuff. And the reason which you can """mix""" water with other elements is simple. Water is everywhere. Blood has water. Is not "transformed into a niche element". Ice/Steam are not "other elements". Are just water in different forms. And you don't need high pressure to kill someone. Just evaporate their internal body water or shape water as a ice lance and impale the enemy.

If "Watahh can fought ghousts tho" is your actual argument, you are just proving the point of water being the lamest magical element. By the logic of the latter sentence earth can control metal, minerals and bones, which again makes it way cooler than water.

 

[Konjad]

Who cares, fantasy makes no sense anyway.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

Elements are overrated, in any case.

 

[Norfleet]

Imagine if we used actual elements, so that we could summon Titanium and Chlorine elementals.

 

[NJClaw]

Imagine thinking that chemical elements actually exist and aren't simply an elaborate scam to trick the gullibles.

 

[Alex]

Elements are overrated, in any case.

I disagree. They might be overused in fantasy, but not really overrated. I mean, I get the impression a whole lot of people put them in fantasy works more because of inertia than any real appreciation or love for the concept.

 

[Lutte]

Lightning/electricity is the truly underrated fantasy school of magic. Travels much faster than a bullet, can start fires just as well as a fireball. If magic systems had any respect for logic, people with lightning spells would be the most fearsome things to fight.

 

[CryptRat]

Imagine if we used actual elements, so that we could summon Titanium and Chlorine elementals.

Magic formulas from Don't go alone are made using elements from Mendeleiev's table.

 

[lukaszek]

i summon plutonium, you will develop cancer in 30 years

 

[Brozef]

Water magic is again a reason MMX is underrated. It gets it completely right with a good balance of damage, cc and buff spells. It might even be the best element. Also the water themed Naga buildings were pretty cool.