Warhammer 40,000: SPACE MARINE 2 by Saber Interactive - Titus takes on the Tyranids

[ERYFKRAD]

Speaking of damage, can we talk about the fact Space Marine armor might as well be made of paper considering the amount of shit that can easily cut through it? I mean shiiiet.

And that's fairly decent armour compared to what my friend the Guardsman has to work with.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I remember reading that people bitched about Space Hulk: Deathwing because in that game it feels like you don't even have armor since everything just cuts you and your buddies down in a nanosecond but now that i started reading Warhammer books it seems that's actually canon lol.

 

[Sunri]

I remember reading that people bitched about Space Hulk: Deathwing because in that game it feels like you don't even have armor since everything just cuts you and your buddies down in a nanosecond but now that i started reading Warhammer books it seems that's actually canon lol.

The only good armor in WH is plot armor.

 

[Darth Roxor]

I remember reading that people bitched about Space Hulk: Deathwing because in that game it feels like you don't even have armor since everything just cuts you and your buddies down in a nanosecond but now that i started reading Warhammer books it seems that's actually canon lol.

Technically that's because jeanstealers have claws that can literally cut through tanks.

I always thought the final sequence in the first Dawn of War intro did justice to the power armoire, when Boreale charges to the top of the hill with the banner, the orks keep shooting all they've got at him and it's only one hit by the end that manages to draw blood.

(it also shows the importance of 40k plot armour given his lack of helmet)

 

[ERYFKRAD]

(it also shows the importance of 40k plot armour given his lack of helmet)

Not like the Shoota Boyz could hit that small a target anyway.

 

[Lyric Suite]

That was cool but a Space Marine wouldn't have died from a shot like that.

In one of the Uriel Ventris books i read he literally gets his throat ripped but is able to survice because apparently the Space Marines have all kind of redundant vital organs that can take over at any moment.

I never realized just how tough Space Marines are supposed to be the video games never make that explicit. When i played Dawn of War i thought they were tough because of their armor.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I never realized just how tough Space Marines are supposed to be the video games never make that explicit.

In Space Marine at least the orks, chaos marines and bloodletters are capable of putting up a fight against Titus. Not so much the grots and the other heretics. Those things just exist as medpaks.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Games that feature spehs marines have done horrible job at reflecting how tough/skilled/powerful/valuable they should be according to fluff. It's nothing new, it was always like that.

 

[Fedora Master]

Reminder that the only game to have correct bolters was Firewarrior.

 

[Parsimonious cook]

I remember reading that people bitched about Space Hulk: Deathwing because in that game it feels like you don't even have armor since everything just cuts you and your buddies down in a nanosecond but now that i started reading Warhammer books it seems that's actually canon lol.

There are two things here - first one is the game logic dictating what does what and lore trying to catch up more or less successfully (ie. in table top space hulk, you need to make the genestealers able to take out terminators in close combat and the storm bolters need to jam every five seconds or so, so genestealers can get into melee range at least sometimes, in the lore, terminator armor is nearly indestructible and stormbolter is an amazing piece of technology, but genestealers have "rending claws" which can cut through anything, because they are awesome too).

The other thing is that the books tend to push whoever happens to be the protagonist, so in the usual space muhreen novel, a single space marine fucks shit up left and right and no amount of las fire can even slow him down, on the other hand in one of the early Gaunt´s Ghosts books an Imperial Guardsman destroys a Chaos Dreadnaught by shooting his las gun through the Dread´s damaged vision slit (I guarantee this would never happen in a space marine novel) and on another occasion a relatively small group of Guardsmen kills an Iron Warrior by las fire.

All of these things are canon, so just choose whatever you want to believe.

Reminder that the only game to have correct bolters was Firewarrior.

Fuckin A. DoW2 was somewhat OK bolter-wise as well.

 

[baud]

on the other hand in one of the early Gaunt´s Ghosts books an Imperial Guardsman destroys a Chaos Dreadnaught by shooting his las gun through the Dread´s damaged vision slit (I guarantee this would never happen in a space marine novel)

I think that shot just blinded the dreadnought, which was then destroyed with the help of a makeshift bomb made from a lasgun power pack. But yeah, it was still one or two guards on foot killing a dread

 

[gerey]

on the other hand in one of the early Gaunt´s Ghosts books an Imperial Guardsman destroys a Chaos Dreadnaught by shooting his las gun through the Dread´s damaged vision slit

Even worse than that, in one of the earlier Gaunt novels Gaunt rushes at a Chaos Space Marines with his power sword and not only survives the initial clash, but also manages to cut the SM in half.

No Black Library author really seems able to grasp the setting, not only from the perspective of power ranking or military strategy, but also in terms of how a society as religiously zealous as the Imperium would behave. Hell, we didn't have a proper animated representation of how Space Marines are supposed to behave until Astartes was released.

BL authors nearly always go the lazy route, whichever faction is on the cover are extremely competent and rack up massive numbers of kills, while the enemies seem to start suffering from acute mental retardation - and all so the author doesn't need to put in the effort and explain how a ragtag group of randoms somehow manages to defeat an enemy force ten times their size.

And if you'll allow me to segway into a separate discussion, Black Library really play down the religious aspects of the setting. Read any Imperium novel and you'll very rarely encounter PoV characters engaging in prayer, or getting offended or murderous one of their own isn't giving the God Emperor proper respect, let alone seeing Imperial characters being consumed by religious fervor. Instead they're all just fairly bland characters that hate aliens - not genocidal space Catholics that believe they are on a holy mission to cleanse the galaxy of all non-human life.

One of the few instances of a character actually behaving somewhat religious was Grimaldus in Helsreach threatening the old Princeps for blaspheming against the Emperor by denying it was her god too.

 

[Parsimonious cook]

Ah yeah, on that note there is a nice passage in the first book of the Penal Legion series by Gav Thorpe. Basically there is a defrocked priest in the 13th Last Chancers penal legion who constantly keeps talking about how Emperor doesnt really exist, the miracles are just a mass psychosis and Ecclesiarchy is just a propaganda outlet. At one point another legionnaire says something like "I may have killed and raped children, but that doesnt mean I have to sit here with a damn heretic!" and tries to kill the priest.

Other than that it was my impression that especially the books that deal with "normal people" within the Imperium (so mostly books about Inquisition, Arbites, Rogue Traders and Guardsman) indeed downplay the religiousness of normal population. IMO the point is that normal people (as opposed to the ones who become pilgrims and such) arent that different from normal people in say 1950s, so they focus on their daily struggles and jobs, while religion matters to some extend, but doesn’t really enter into daily lives outside of "making the sign of Aquila" or saying "Emperor protects" in the way we would say "goodbye."

Part of it is probably merely a way to make characters more relatable to the contemporary audience, the other thing is that the "grimm darkness" is seemingly easier to portray with pictures than with words.

This picture from the old Witchhutners codex is the "true" 40K for me. I have a few shelves filled with Black Library novels back home and I like most of them, but I still havent found a single one that would manage to convey this atmosphere.

 

[Tyranicon]

Speaking of damage, can we talk about the fact Space Marine armor might as well be made of paper considering the amount of shit that can easily cut through it? I mean shiiiet.

And that's fairly decent armour compared to what my friend the Guardsman has to work with.

Imperial Guard equipment vary wildly depending on the writer. Standard issue flak armor can range from not even being able to take the smallest autogun round, to being vastly better than modern level IV ballistic armor.

 

[gerey]

IMO the point is that normal people (as opposed to the ones who become pilgrims and such) arent that different from normal people in say 1950s, so they focus on their daily struggles and jobs, while religion matters to some extend, but doesn’t really enter into daily lives outside of "making the sign of Aquila" or saying "Emperor protects" in the way we would say "goodbye."

Problem is that the setting is an apocalyptic one - large swathes of the Imperium are locked in perpetual warfare, trillions of loyalist men die daily on a million battlefields, daemons, rebels, heretics and apostates constantly try to undermine the very fabric of reality, gods walk among mortals and humanity is on the razor edge between survival and annihilation.

So even if you're someone living on a world that hasn't seen active war in a few centuries you're still going to witness the sheer amount of resources going into the war effort, all the millions of men drafted into the Imperial Guard and are constantly bombarded with state and religious propaganda.

Sure, some people are going to be skeptical about the whole thing, but the vast, vast majority is going to be true believers of varying degrees of zealotry, all dependent on how fucked up the planet is. As an example, it makes no sense that places like Armageddon or Cadia aren't consumed by religious fervor.

I think the Bloodlines book by Chris Wraight did a pretty good job of showcasing the mindset of an average, middle-class (or at least what passes for one in the Imperium) man. He's religious, though dissatisfied with the Ecclesiarchy teachings and looking for a "truer" religious experience, meanwhile he's also worried about his daughter, who was drafted into the PDF and how she's being radicalized by a firebrand preacher - but throughout the book the religious nature of the Imperium permeates every facet of life.

And I feel authors are missing out when they avoid the religious issue since it can be very effectively used to showcase just how warped humanity has become, but if they did that they'd also need to portray faith as a positive, the one thing keeping the Imperium united, and since they're all fedora tippers they are reluctant to do that.

 

[baud]

on the other hand in one of the early Gaunt´s Ghosts books an Imperial Guardsman destroys a Chaos Dreadnaught by shooting his las gun through the Dread´s damaged vision slit

Even worse than that, in one of the earlier Gaunt novels Gaunt rushes at a Chaos Space Marines with his power sword and not only survives the initial clash, but also manages to cut the SM in half.

No Black Library author really seems able to grasp the setting, not only from the perspective of power ranking or military strategy, but also in terms of how a society as religiously zealous as the Imperium would behave. Hell, we didn't have a proper animated representation of how Space Marines are supposed to behave until Astartes was released.

BL authors nearly always go the lazy route, whichever faction is on the cover are extremely competent and rack up massive numbers of kills, while the enemies seem to start suffering from acute mental retardation - and all so the author doesn't need to put in the effort and explain how a ragtag group of randoms somehow manages to defeat an enemy force ten times their size.

On that regard, I found the Word Bearers trilogy wasn't too guilty of this, with the CSM taking huge number of casualties, from Imperial Guards (though the guard took horrendous casualties, with each slain CSM costing 10-100 dead guards), to Dark Eldar and tyranids, to necrons and to loyalists SM... They mostly come out on top mostly because they have many space marines to take the losses and then by running away once they've achieved their goals.

 

[what am i doing]

I remember reading that people bitched about Space Hulk: Deathwing because in that game it feels like you don't even have armor since everything just cuts you and your buddies down in a nanosecond but now that i started reading Warhammer books it seems that's actually canon lol.

Something that kinda makes it feel different is playing Necromunda: Hired Gun. You (an ordinary human, albeit with good weapons and high quality cybernetics) face regular Genestealers in one mission: there's not a lot of them, they're massive compared to you, they're bullet sponges, and if they get to melee range you're basically dead; every one of them is like a mini boss.
Then you play Space Hulk: Deathwing again and those guys are basically cannon fodder. Puts into perspective just how good Terminator armour is, even going up against the guys who are basically tailor-made by tabletop gameplay requirements to be their counter.

 

[Gerrard]

Speaking of damage, can we talk about the fact Space Marine armor might as well be made of paper considering the amount of shit that can easily cut through it? I mean shiiiet.

It also makes little sense in-universe since marines are supposed to be limited in numbers and the tech scarce.

I always thought the dissonance was silly between DoW2 intro where marines drop like flies and the actual game where they can survive a hit from a tank, and really feel like the ultimate weapons of the Imperium.

 

[Spectacle]

on the other hand in one of the early Gaunt´s Ghosts books an Imperial Guardsman destroys a Chaos Dreadnaught by shooting his las gun through the Dread´s damaged vision slit

Even worse than that, in one of the earlier Gaunt novels Gaunt rushes at a Chaos Space Marines with his power sword and not only survives the initial clash, but also manages to cut the SM in half.

That's something that could easily happen in the tabletop game though. Space Marine armor does pretty much nothing against Power Swords, and units that Charge get to attack first so Gaunt could kill the traitor marine before it had any chance to strike back. At least in earlier editions. In 9th edition even basic marines have 2 wounds, making them much more durable.

 

[Tyranicon]

on the other hand in one of the early Gaunt´s Ghosts books an Imperial Guardsman destroys a Chaos Dreadnaught by shooting his las gun through the Dread´s damaged vision slit

Even worse than that, in one of the earlier Gaunt novels Gaunt rushes at a Chaos Space Marines with his power sword and not only survives the initial clash, but also manages to cut the SM in half.

That's something that could easily happen in the tabletop game though. Space Marine armor does pretty much nothing against Power Swords, and units that Charge get to attack first so Gaunt could kill the traitor marine before it had any chance to strike back. At least in earlier editions. In 9th edition even basic marines have 2 wounds, making them much more durable.

True, but tabletop has to be balanced (or at least some semblance of balance). If tabletop SMs were lore strength, you would only be able to field like 4 in a casual game.

 

[gerey]

It also makes little sense in-universe since marines are supposed to be limited in numbers and the tech scarce.

The point is to showcase just how dangerous the galaxy is when even something as potent as a space marine can easily die to the enemy.

To put things in even more perspective, a single hit to the central mass of an unarmored human target from a guardsman's lasgun is enough to blow the upper half the body away due to flash cooking all the water in the body, yet the fandom refers to the lasgun as a laser pointer for how useful it is against most of the more popular enemies of the Imperium.

And space marines are more than just their armor and weapons - they are seasoned warriors with centuries of experience, force multipliers and a massive morale boost to any Imperial forces fighting next to them.

I think the main issue is how BL writers portray the deployment of space marines - they should never be used as heavy infantry, they are meant to be dropped onto critical enemy installations where their armor and firepower can grant them localized superiority, quickly slaughter and destroy whatever the target is and exfiltrate.

If the Imperium wants a slugging match they have the Imperial Guard and the Titan Legions for that.

And that's another thing I hate - how inept, poorly trained and weak the IG is oftentimes shown to be. BL writers, being dumbfucks, excuse it by saying that the Imperium has an endless supply of bodies to throw at the enemy so why bother training soldiers, but that ignores a few basic facts:

1. Human wave tactics never work well, and any military that has been fighting as long as the Imperium has would possess the institutional experience to train and use their troops better;
2. Unlike what faggot amateur historians would like you to believe, training and equipping soldiers is never cheap - just because commanders in WW1 threw them at the enemy lines in lieu of a better alternative does not mean such tactics weren't costly, or the loss of experienced manpower felt;
3. Taking into account the unreliability of Warp travel commanders at the local level cannot expect a steady supply of troops and equipment, so what they have on hand is quite possibly what they are going to be stuck with for a long time - and that's ignoring the fact that even if you have trillions of troops, that number means nothing if you have millions of planets you're waging war on.

Then there's shit like the fucking Siege of Vraks that turned the Death Korps from efficient, professional and fanatical soldiers into meme lemmings that rush to their deaths with a smile on their faces, or how at one point in the lore the tanks used by the IG were converted farm equipment and their armor could be penetrated by a modern .50 cal bullet.

What I'm trying to say is that BL writers need to be rounded up and routinely beaten.

 

[Infinitron]

Discover more of Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine 2 with today’s Behind-The-Scenes.

Focus Entertainment and Saber Interactive revealed a Behind-the-Scenes video for their upcoming third-person action title Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine 2. Revealed in yesterday’s Warhammer Skulls Showcase, the trailer introduces Saber’s Chief Creative Officer Tim Willits and Creative Director Oliver Hollis-Leick, flanked by Clive Standen, who portrays the fan-favorite Captain Titus. Watch now to meet the team and discover new in-game snippets of the high-octane action experience coming to players and Warhammer 40,000 fans on PS5, Xbox Series X|S and PC!

A passion piece to meet the expectations of millions

This teaser takes you to the committed atmosphere behind the scenes of Space Marine 2, as Tim Willits and Oliver Hollis-Leick let you in on their team’s high expectations, passion and design philosophy. The project bears the weight of millions of followers’ expectations, a stimulating force for the development team—not the least of expectations being their own!

Actor Clive Standen (Vikings, Taken) is also seen at work and shares insights on the challenging transformation process into the iconic Captain Titus. It incorporates itself in the high-standard framework dedicated to the accuracy and quality of essential elements to the franchise, such as the massive scale of a universe constantly at war, and within it, the brutal efficiency of Space Marines.

Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine 2 will be released on PlayStation 5, Xbox Series X|S and PC. Sign up as a Focus member now to get the latest exclusive info and upcoming special offers for Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine 2 and the whole Focus catalog.

 

[udm]

the trailer introduces Saber’s Chief Creative Officer Tim Willits

Wait what? Wasn't he still with id? Did I miss something?

 

[Infinitron]

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Why not show gameplay?
It's a more pratical way to hype your product.