Warhammer Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[SpaceWizardz]

KotOR (2003) was the last game they did where romanceable NPCs had a fixed orientation, after that there always were playersexual NPCs, AFAIK.

Dragon Age 2 (Vanilla, The DLC companion was made female only.) and TOR's expansions are the only times Bioware did playersexual.

 

[Lamiosa]

I imagine that eventually most crpgs will have all fuckable playersexual companions, so expect BG3 companions personalities only from now on. It was a good run, but it's over.

Have people not played Bioware games before, thinking Larian invented this shit? KotOR (2003) was the last game they did where romanceable NPCs had a fixed orientation, after that there always were playersexual NPCs, AFAIK.

This is nothing new, aside from the ideology now behind it, which admittedly is cancer.

You could say it was always about giving players what they want, about fan service, it's just the player base has expanded into the mainstream, and fans and devs have become increasingly ideologically corrupted.

Your points are valid and I may be overreacting, but it seems to me that the pressure is higher now, coming from players, youtubers, gaming "journalists", etc. In one of the recent interviews with an Owlcat dev, the interviewer straight up started comparing the game to BG3 and focusing a lot in romances, and the dev seemed noticiable unconfortable. I have no problem with playersexual companions, but I think that the demand for more romanceable ones will limit the type of characters you can write. Limiting myself to Owlcat, characters like Lizi, Nok-Nok, Harrim, Jubilost, Ember, Regill and Finnean would't work for romances, so the tendency in my view is that they'll become rarer.

 

[Ismaul]

KotOR (2003) was the last game they did where romanceable NPCs had a fixed orientation, after that there always were playersexual NPCs, AFAIK.

Dragon Age 2 and TOR's expansions are the only times Bioware did playersexual.

Man you're really making me search?

Jade Empire (2005) had Silk (woman) and Sky (man) who were into any sex.

Mass Effect 1 had Liara that would go for either sex. Mass 2 had 3 characters: Kelly Chambers, Samara and Morinth. Mass 3 had Kaidan, Liara, Kelly, and Diana, plus others with a DLC.

Dragon Age Origins had Leiliana and Zevran who would go for either sex.

Not all romanceable characters were playersexual, if that's what you mean, but they were already trying to appeal to a maximum number of players that way, while trying not to alienate more traditional players. Now, devs have let go of the last part.

Already with KotOR and Jade Empire, Bioware devs were discussing resources involved in making romances, and arguing that bi/playersexual characters were a way to make the content accessible to more players and justify putting the resources into it. Clearly it never really was about resources, since as you can see, the count of romanceable NPCs went up with each game.

 

[SpaceWizardz]

Not all romanceable characters were playersexual, if that's what you mean,

That's what the term means, yes.

 

[Ismaul]

Your points are valid and I may be overreacting, but it seems to me that the pressure is higher now, coming from players, youtubers, gaming "journalists", etc. In one of the recent interviews with an Owlcat dev, the interviewer straight up started comparing the game to BG3 and focusing a lot in romances, and the dev seemed noticiable unconfortable. I have no problem with playersexual companions, but I think that the demand for more romanceable ones will limit the type of characters you can write. Limiting myself to Owlcat, characters like Lizi, Nok-Nok, Harrim, Jubilost, Ember, Regill and Finnean would't work for romances, so the tendency in my view is that they'll become rarer.

Nah, you're not overreacting.

The consequences you outline are real. It's just that the history of this doesn't start with BG3.

Not all romanceable characters were playersexual, if that's what you mean,

That's what the term means, yes.

Alright. I don't think we disagree though that the increasing number of bisexual NPCs were made with the same intent as playersexual NPCs.

 

[CaesarCzech]

Reddit is STILL whining ?

 

[La vie sexuelle]

Reddit is STILL whining ?

Better. They practice sitting on the fence:

The TheGamer Article is valid if poorly worded in some aspects​

Honestly I believe that the artile that was recently posted by TheGamer was a completely valid interview, and I have seen a very large amount of people claiming that asking about lgbt romances is unimportant and disrespectful to the developers.
With all of my respect towards Owlcat, I must say that they are the ones who put themselves in that position only through their own choices, when they had the very real possibility of avoiding the negative press that may accompany having a single romance option for gay men who is a deranged psycopath by simply not having this be the case, which would have been much cheaper than many seem to think (it is actually easier to code a bisexual romance than any other kind).
While I do agree that openly comparing the game to Baldurs Gate 3 in interviews with the game's developers is certainly not a respectful thing to do, I wholeheartedly believe that it is fair that the developers get asked about the reasoning behind their choices by the press, and I also believe that it is not 'unfair' or 'disrespectful' for lgbt people to complain about being left out and treated as an afterthought.

https://www.reddit.com/r/RogueTrade...hegamer_article_is_valid_if_poorly_worded_in/

 

[CaesarCzech]

Seems like somebody dropped their mask so much the rest had to beat them into line.

https://old.reddit.com/r/RogueTraderCRPG/comments/16wgd28/marazhai_problematic/

 

[Dishonoredbr]

we are not comparing RT to BG3, we just want more romances

The amount of people suggesting "just make everyone bi" and "it must be easier from coding/programing just turning everyone bi" is nuts. Zero fucks about artistic choices and wanting to tell a specific story , nah just "gives us we want!"

 

[Dishonoredbr]

KotOR (2003) was the last game they did where romanceable NPCs had a fixed orientation, after that there always were playersexual NPCs, AFAIK.

DAI had Solas who only romanced Female Elves.. Dorian for only males characters.

Sera only for female characters. Cullen , Blackwall for female only. Cassandra Male only. Only Bull and Josephine were playsexual. Inquistion was actually more restricted than any of their games before.

 

[CaesarCzech]

KotOR (2003) was the last game they did where romanceable NPCs had a fixed orientation, after that there always were playersexual NPCs, AFAIK.

DAI had Solas who only romanced Female Elves.. Dorian for only males characters.

Sera only for female characters. Cullen , Blackwall for female only. Cassandra Male only. Only Bull and Josephine were playsexual. Inquistion was actually more restricted than any of their games before.

Im the last person to be a tumblrtard but there are sings that Cullen and Sera were intended to be bi at first.

 

[Camel]

Seems like somebody dropped their mask so much the rest had to beat them into line.

https://old.reddit.com/r/RogueTraderCRPG/comments/16wgd28/marazhai_problematic/

Wokes call everything they can't call (yet) racist, sexist or whatever to be "problematic". An edgy and effeminate faggot is par for the course in the Wh40k setting and not only among the Dark Eldar, Imperium has it's fair share.

 

[Ismaul]

Bisexual NPCs always were proto-playersexual NPCs. Bioware just kept some NPCs with a fixed sexual orientation to not alienate some of its player base.

But since over time it became so that disliking "women" with penises is "misogyny", that being against bisexual NPCs is just you being a toxic gamer, devs let go of the "legacy" idea of NPCs with fixed orientation.

It's been a gradual shift over two decades.

 

[Tyranicon]

I thought I was a degenerate for adding porn to my rpgs, but now I just think I was ahead of the curve.

 

[Cohesion]

I thought I was a degenerate for adding porn to my rpgs, but now I just think I was ahead of the curve.

There is achievement in world of warcraft every season - "ahead of the curve".
Raid guilds sell it for real money to newbs.

 

[Nikanuur]

I hope, I am banned from Steam forums for this game as well. I will bear the puny indictment of the will of the mob with my soul full of impunity, for I uttered nothing but the plain truth, "Instead of delving into minor things such as bi, gay, or romances in general, I am here to bask in the glorious light of Omnissiah's will while destroying the xeno scum by the thousands. Glory to the Omnissiah!"

 

[RegionalHobo]

in the end this is all artificial outrage and will have minimal if any real effects. or at least i hope it is, imagine having your hobby being taken by a demographic that think crpg romance is even close to being relevant.

 

[jf8350143]

I'm curious to see how they write the dark eldar romance because it should ended the same way as Morinith romance from ME2, except it will feature a longer and more painful death.

 

[jf8350143]

KotOR (2003) was the last game they did where romanceable NPCs had a fixed orientation, after that there always were playersexual NPCs, AFAIK.

DAI had Solas who only romanced Female Elves.. Dorian for only males characters.

Sera only for female characters. Cullen , Blackwall for female only. Cassandra Male only. Only Bull and Josephine were playsexual. Inquistion was actually more restricted than any of their games before.

Im the last person to be a tumblrtard but there are sings that Cullen and Sera were intended to be bi at first.

Cut content doens't count unless they added them back in the game(aka Kaiden from ME3).

 

[Nm6k]

I'm curious to see how they write the dark eldar romance because it should ended the same way as Morinith romance from ME2, except it will feature a longer and more painful death.

There is already datemine info that you can get him to switch to using a soulstone so most likely he does have a redemption arc of some kind.

 

[Irxy]

I think it will depend on how many DLCs they make tho. Replaying a big RPG 1-2 times is pretty common in the fanbase, and it makes sense to wait for the main story DLC to do it. But if they suddenly would have all 6 DLC purely for the main story, I doubt majority of people would want to replay the whole game that many times.

I don't think many players would replay the game just for the dlc, but if the game was good I will likely replay it in a couple of years and a bunch of dlcs is a bonus.
Either way, I personally prefer dlcs which either continue the main campaign or expand it, but you can play them by loading the final save. For some reason, Owlcats didn't have such an option in their survey despite that it is the most common & obvious way to embed dlcs. I'm 100% sure the majority of players would prefer this instead of replaying.

 

[Shaki]

I think it will depend on how many DLCs they make tho. Replaying a big RPG 1-2 times is pretty common in the fanbase, and it makes sense to wait for the main story DLC to do it. But if they suddenly would have all 6 DLC purely for the main story, I doubt majority of people would want to replay the whole game that many times.

I don't think many players would replay the game just for the dlc, but if the game was good I will likely replay it in a couple of years and a bunch of dlcs is a bonus.
Either way, I personally prefer dlcs which either continue the main campaign or expand it, but you can play them by loading the final save. For some reason, Owlcats didn't have such an option in their survey despite that it is the most common & obvious way to embed dlcs. I'm 100% sure the majority of players would prefer this instead of replaying.

It's the hardest option to do tho, and often still the one that fails to satisfy players. People think they want that, but they really want a proper sequel, continuation of the story, which a short DLC can't deliver. You end up with a random disjointed adventure, using some shitty excuse and usually ignoring most possible endings, to bring your characters back for a couple of hours and make them run another bloated high level dungeon with a villain you won't care about. WotR had one DLC like that, and it was received worse than the even the low-level side campaign one.

The proper way to do it, is to make a full size expansion, like Awakening for Dragon Age, but this requires as much effort as 6+ smaller DLCs, while having the price of max 2-3, so 99% of the devs don't want to do this. Also still there is no guarantee players will like it (Codex mostly hates Throne of Bhaal, for example), since it has a lot of same problems as the post-game small DLCs, creating satisfying and balanced high level content is very hard, and continuing the story in a satisfying way is even harder, especially when you didn't plan for the expansion and the game has a proper, definitive ending with ending slides and shit.

 

[Rhobar121]

I think it will depend on how many DLCs they make tho. Replaying a big RPG 1-2 times is pretty common in the fanbase, and it makes sense to wait for the main story DLC to do it. But if they suddenly would have all 6 DLC purely for the main story, I doubt majority of people would want to replay the whole game that many times.

I don't think many players would replay the game just for the dlc, but if the game was good I will likely replay it in a couple of years and a bunch of dlcs is a bonus.
Either way, I personally prefer dlcs which either continue the main campaign or expand it, but you can play them by loading the final save. For some reason, Owlcats didn't have such an option in their survey despite that it is the most common & obvious way to embed dlcs. I'm 100% sure the majority of players would prefer this instead of replaying.

It's the hardest option to do tho, and often still the one that fails to satisfy players. People think they want that, but they really want a proper sequel, continuation of the story, which a short DLC can't deliver. You end up with a random disjointed adventure, using some shitty excuse and usually ignoring most possible endings, to bring your characters back for a couple of hours and make them run another bloated high level dungeon with a villain you won't care about. WotR had one DLC like that, and it was received worse than the even the low-level side campaign one.

The proper way to do it, is to make a full size expansion, like Awakening for Dragon Age, but this requires as much effort as 6+ smaller DLCs, while having the price of max 2-3, so 99% of the devs don't want to do this. Also still there is no guarantee players will like it (Codex mostly hates Throne of Bhaal, for example), since it has a lot of same problems as the post-game small DLCs, creating satisfying and balanced high level content is very hard, and continuing the story in a satisfying way is even harder, especially when you didn't plan for the expansion and the game has a proper, definitive ending with ending slides and shit.

The DLC was hated mainly because Owlcat couldn't resist putting a lot of its shitty puzzles in there, some of which are mandatory.
If you removed them from the game the reception would be much better.

 

[Dishonoredbr]

WotR had one DLC like that, and it was received worse than the even the low-level side campaign one.

People dislike because was mainly puzzles instead of a cool side story with our MC in the peak of their powers.

 

[Tyranicon]

I'm curious to see how they write the dark eldar romance because it should ended the same way as Morinith romance from ME2, except it will feature a longer and more painful death.

There is already datemine info that you can get him to switch to using a soulstone so most likely he does have a redemption arc of some kind.

A reminder that the definition between eldar and dark eldar is very weak and they cross over all the time.

Eldar: Why don't you monkeigh never trust us?

Human: The majority of your race squickfucked yourself into damnation and the "nice" ones are retarded space amish that hang out with their squickfucker cousins all the time.

I'll have to hand it to GW that they make some of the most hateable elves in fiction.