KickStarter Vigilantes: neo-noir, turn based tactical RPG

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Minor observation:
In one encounter mafiosos unequipped hammers that they were wielding and tried to use good old fisticuffs.
Never tried to use hammers again.

In next encounter baseball bat wielding survivalists correctly used rest of their APs for unarmed attack when they caught my pot shot taking PC.
Then on the next turn they changed back to using baseball bats and mauled my utility build Sam.

Edit.
Also encountered minor sound bug.
Walking sound keeps playing repeatedly until next character's round if unit moves just 1 tile.

Enemies fleeing seems to be working as intented.

 

[Timeslip]

Minor observation:
In one encounter mafiosos unequipped hammers that they were wielding and tried to use good old fisticuffs.
Never tried to use hammers again.

In next encounter baseball bat wielding survivalists correctly used rest of their APs for unarmed attack when they caught my pot shot taking PC.
Then on the next turn they changed back to using baseball bats and mauled my utility build Sam.

In first case, guessing the enemy had 6 ap, and chose to make 2 x 3ap attacks, rather than 1 x4 ap. For the most part, the ai will try to maximise damage for the ap they have.

Edit.
Also encountered minor sound bug.
Walking sound keeps playing repeatedly until next character's round if unit moves just 1 tile.

Enemies fleeing seems to be working as intented.

Thanks, will add that bug to the hit list for V21!

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Is injury system implemented yet?

I haven't found any use for healing screen even when couple of my guys has gone down.

Also it would be nice if you could pick allies that participate directly on map screen; now one has to go into "allies" screen to choose them.

edit.
Got an injury after shameful defeat deliberately losing.

 

[ushas]

Is injury system implemented yet?

I haven't found any use for healing screen even when couple of my guys has gone down.

Loosing HP and getting injured are two separate things. Resting helps with recovering from both but healing screen itself is just for the latter. As far as I observed you can get injured when an enemy lands a critical (not every crit though). Is it possible you haven't encountered this yet? (there is usually a floating text and the lowered stat is in red)

That said, I can imagine for one to get an injury when downed too (even lvl 2+). Sometimes when an ally is incapacitated fast - it means not lowering his max HP much before going down - a thus you don't need to rest him for long at home (in comparison to somebody who stayed till the end but got a lot of beating and healing).

Timeslip, if the healing screen will end up more intuitive, what about resting button throwing one here instead to the char. sheet (+adding HP info)? (could be also handy when deciding time needed for wearing down an injury).

edit.
Got an injury after shameful defeat deliberately losing.

Edit to edit: Nice. I could have waited like 2 minutes before writing down the answer

 

[ArchAngel]

Minor observation:
In one encounter mafiosos unequipped hammers that they were wielding and tried to use good old fisticuffs.
Never tried to use hammers again.

In next encounter baseball bat wielding survivalists correctly used rest of their APs for unarmed attack when they caught my pot shot taking PC.
Then on the next turn they changed back to using baseball bats and mauled my utility build Sam.

In first case, guessing the enemy had 6 ap, and chose to make 2 x 3ap attacks, rather than 1 x4 ap. For the most part, the ai will try to maximise damage for the ap they have.

Edit.
Also encountered minor sound bug.
Walking sound keeps playing repeatedly until next character's round if unit moves just 1 tile.

Enemies fleeing seems to be working as intented.

Thanks, will add that bug to the hit list for V21!

I what world does two hits from fists does more damage then a proper hit by a hammer?

 

[Timeslip]

Also it would be nice if you could pick allies that participate directly on map screen; now one has to go into "allies" screen to choose them.

Agree, there are some functionality gaps in the city UI -
ushas has suggested adding the top button bar there - think it's a good idea, and something will look it - it's on a separate canvas, but it's workable.

 

[Timeslip]

Minor observation:
In one encounter mafiosos unequipped hammers that they were wielding and tried to use good old fisticuffs.
Never tried to use hammers again.

In next encounter baseball bat wielding survivalists correctly used rest of their APs for unarmed attack when they caught my pot shot taking PC.
Then on the next turn they changed back to using baseball bats and mauled my utility build Sam.

In first case, guessing the enemy had 6 ap, and chose to make 2 x 3ap attacks, rather than 1 x4 ap. For the most part, the ai will try to maximise damage for the ap they have.
I what world does two hits from fists does more damage then a proper hit by a hammer?

Inclined towards realism as much as the situation allows, but when realism comes into conflict with balance, fun, or style... well... it gets thrown under the bus

 

[ArchAngel]

Minor observation:
In one encounter mafiosos unequipped hammers that they were wielding and tried to use good old fisticuffs.
Never tried to use hammers again.

In next encounter baseball bat wielding survivalists correctly used rest of their APs for unarmed attack when they caught my pot shot taking PC.
Then on the next turn they changed back to using baseball bats and mauled my utility build Sam.

In first case, guessing the enemy had 6 ap, and chose to make 2 x 3ap attacks, rather than 1 x4 ap. For the most part, the ai will try to maximise damage for the ap they have.
I what world does two hits from fists does more damage then a proper hit by a hammer?

Inclined towards realism as much as the situation allows, but when realism comes into conflict with balance, fun, or style... well... it gets thrown under the bus

Yes but in this case it turned into this funny situation. Make hammers 5ap but give them more damage than 2 hit from fists.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Make hammers 5ap but give them more damage than 2 hit from fists.

Baseball bats fill that role.
Brutally effective in the hands of PI.

Besides hammers seem to outpace unarmed when you use more powerful attack type.

 

[ArchAngel]

Make hammers 5ap but give them more damage than 2 hit from fists.

Baseball bats fill that role.
Brutally effective in the hands of PI.

Besides hammers seem to outpace unarmed when you use more powerful attack type.

Then those thugs should have that attack and use it. It is pointless to have hammer wielding thugs if they are not going to be using it.

 

[Timeslip]

Minor observation:
In one encounter mafiosos unequipped hammers that they were wielding and tried to use good old fisticuffs.
Never tried to use hammers again.

In next encounter baseball bat wielding survivalists correctly used rest of their APs for unarmed attack when they caught my pot shot taking PC.
Then on the next turn they changed back to using baseball bats and mauled my utility build Sam.

In first case, guessing the enemy had 6 ap, and chose to make 2 x 3ap attacks, rather than 1 x4 ap. For the most part, the ai will try to maximise damage for the ap they have.
I what world does two hits from fists does more damage then a proper hit by a hammer?

Inclined towards realism as much as the situation allows, but when realism comes into conflict with balance, fun, or style... well... it gets thrown under the bus

Yes but in this case it turned into this funny situation. Make hammers 5ap but give them more damage than 2 hit from fists.

I'd expect a certain amount of balancing to be done re weapons. Thought, if a 5ap attack does more than 2x 3 ap melee, there's not a lot of point to hand to hand being in the game.

 

[Timeslip]

Make hammers 5ap but give them more damage than 2 hit from fists.

Baseball bats fill that role.
Brutally effective in the hands of PI.

Besides hammers seem to outpace unarmed when you use more powerful attack type.

Then those thugs should have that attack and use it. It is pointless to have hammer wielding thugs if they are not going to be using it.

If they have 7 ap, they will use 1x hammer + 1 fists. If they have 6, the will use 2 unarmed. 5, 1 x hammer.

 

[ushas]

As enemies are leveling and gang AI is deciding upon upgrading their equipment in parallel, it seems to me like it's theoretically possible to experience a battle where it was more effective for them to use fists the whole time, even when having hammers at disposal. Unless that happens in all configurations, is it really problem?

Some additional thoughts:
Unsure about current numbers, generally blunt weapons (4-6 AP) have lower chance-to-hit in comparison to fists & bladed (3-5 AP). So the performance also depends on the opponent's defense (eg. evasion, CC skill) and protection*. A lot can change with balancing, but so far I liked that it's not constant as the game and even one battle proceeds.

Ad (*): If target wears an armour: it has % as well as flat dam reduction components (the latter makes low dam attacks less effective), and each hit wears this protection down (% based on dam done and weapon). IIRC, blunt ones are set to be the most armour damaging (however, using rifles with hot-loaded ammo from distance is a kind of safer, tbh.).

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Yet more stuff:

Shotguns seem to able to shoot outside of the cone.
Sam dropped one mafioso while using over watch from what seemed a quarter level away.

Temporary allies seem to be quite strong to the point where I could draw enemy attention to them without any worry. (Might be the difficulty I'm playing though; currently playing on Vigilante.)

 

[ushas]

Shotguns seem to able to shoot outside of the cone.
Sam dropped one mafioso while using over watch from what seemed a quarter level away.

So you used a shotgun in OW? Then it probably works as intended right now (technical reasons). But please join me in begging Timeslip to change this

 

[ArchAngel]

Minor observation:
In one encounter mafiosos unequipped hammers that they were wielding and tried to use good old fisticuffs.
Never tried to use hammers again.

In next encounter baseball bat wielding survivalists correctly used rest of their APs for unarmed attack when they caught my pot shot taking PC.
Then on the next turn they changed back to using baseball bats and mauled my utility build Sam.

In first case, guessing the enemy had 6 ap, and chose to make 2 x 3ap attacks, rather than 1 x4 ap. For the most part, the ai will try to maximise damage for the ap they have.
I what world does two hits from fists does more damage then a proper hit by a hammer?

Inclined towards realism as much as the situation allows, but when realism comes into conflict with balance, fun, or style... well... it gets thrown under the bus

Yes but in this case it turned into this funny situation. Make hammers 5ap but give them more damage than 2 hit from fists.

I'd expect a certain amount of balancing to be done re weapons. Thought, if a 5ap attack does more than 2x 3 ap melee, there's not a lot of point to hand to hand being in the game.

There is a point.. for those specialised in it. For example in D&D unarmed does low damage and cannot kill unless you specialise in it.
Also in your game you can put unarmed as best way to take out enemies without killing them by giving a hit chance penalty to trying to use lethal weapons to not kill.

Also enemy AI should not only look at damage per AP but hit chance as well. Using fists or hammers should have a noticeable difference in hit chance as they are pretty different fighting styles.

 

[ushas]

Using fists or hammers should have a noticeable difference in hit chance as they are pretty different fighting styles.

There is difference.

An interesting idea about lethal vs. non- to be based also on weapon/mode/skill. Think Timeslip contemplated something in that direction.

Btw. are you playing the game or is this more theoretical? (no problem with either)

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Encountered a bug where city screen got zoomed in too close. Couldn't see sectors on the edges of the city.
No way to scroll or change zoom level of the map screen.

Reloading game fixed it.

 

[ushas]

Encountered a bug where city screen got zoomed in too close. Couldn't see sectors on the edges of the city.
No way to scroll or change zoom level of the map screen.

Reloading game fixed it.

By chance - do you have a screenshot or remember how to reproduce?

Edit: Not sure if related but it seems if zooming in a lot it won't let me scroll up using 'w' key.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Encountered a bug where city screen got zoomed in too close. Couldn't see sectors on the edges of the city.
No way to scroll or change zoom level of the map screen.

Reloading game fixed it.

By chance - do you have a screenshot or remember how to reproduce?

No idea how to reproduce it though.

 

[ushas]

No idea how to reproduce it though.

Np. I will show itself eventually. Just to be sure: at this point it wasn't possible to zoom out via mouse wheel anymore?

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

No idea how to reproduce it though.

Np. I will show itself eventually. Just to be sure: at this point it wasn't possible to zoom out via mouse wheel anymore?

To be honest I'm not even certain.
Only noticed that it's possible to zoom city map when you said about it.
Very slow zooming speed though.

 

[ushas]

To be honest I'm not even certain.
Only noticed that it's possible to zoom city map when you said about it.

Ok. I suppose it just means that it goes into being-vigilant-in-case-happens-again category
Hope you haven't lost a lot of progress.

Very slow zooming speed though.

Hm, having also a fairly slow scrolling over map here (wads keys).

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Ok. I suppose it just means that it goes into being-vigilant-in-case-happens-again category
Hope you haven't lost a lot of progress.

No progress lost at all.
I made a save in new slot and loaded that from main menu.

 

[ArchAngel]

Using fists or hammers should have a noticeable difference in hit chance as they are pretty different fighting styles.

There is difference.

An interesting idea about lethal vs. non- to be based also on weapon/mode/skill. Think Timeslip contemplated something in that direction.

Btw. are you playing the game or is this more theoretical? (no problem with either)

I am not playing yet. I have it on Steam but I am still finishing up my Xcom 2 and Path of Exile runs/characters. I was planning to try it out at some point in near(er) future.