KickStarter Vigilantes: neo-noir, turn based tactical RPG

[anus_pounder]

Looking forward to this.

I do have a few issues, but as a nuGen Gamer, feel free to ignore as you wish.

- Firearm damage scales with stats. I can't say I agree with this, it feels too much like...a game? I dunno how to put this. I feel the stat should effect things like accuracy and the availability of perks that reduce the AP to reload and shoot certain types of guns but not damage itself. Firearms should deal high amounts of damage by default, but there should be malluses that effect a person trying to shoot with inadequate stats. Like maybe firing an Uzi on full burst with terrible shooting stats gives you some sort of status debuff representing your lack of familiarity with firearms? I dunno? I don't have any firearm experience.

- Status debuffs everywhere. I think someone reduced to 1/70 HP, for example, should have a shitload of debuffs on him/her to represent the fact they're on their absolute last legs. I'll leave it up to you and better rpg gamers as to what these debuffs could be, but I think there should be some sort of system that ensures someone with 50% HP left isn't fighting at the same level of efficiency as someone with full health.

 

[Timeslip]

Thanks for giving it a test run, and for the feedback.

- Firearm damage scales with stats. I can't say I agree with this, it feels too much like...a game? I dunno how to put this. I feel the stat should effect things like accuracy and the availability of perks that reduce the AP to reload and shoot certain types of guns but not damage itself. Firearms should deal high amounts of damage by default, but there should be malluses that effect a person trying to shoot with inadequate stats. Like maybe firing an Uzi on full burst with terrible shooting stats gives you some sort of status debuff representing your lack of familiarity with firearms? I dunno? I don't have any firearm experience.

Skill increasing firearm damage isn't very common, but the thinking is that a more accurate character would have better control over where shots go, and being able to hit vital organs, as opposed to say grazing an arm would significantly alter the amount of damage a shot from the same weapon would cause. There's a lot of balancing work still to be done with Vigilantes though, and it's entirely possible the scaling effect is too potent.

- Status debuffs everywhere. I think someone reduced to 1/70 HP, for example, should have a shitload of debuffs on him/her to represent the fact they're on their absolute last legs. I'll leave it up to you and better rpg gamers as to what these debuffs could be, but I think there should be some sort of system that ensures someone with 50% HP left isn't fighting at the same level of efficiency as someone with full health.

I like this idea. For hand to hand especially, it makes sense. There is an injuries system, but I took it out for the alpha. Will tweak it a bit and re-add, and I'm open to suggestions on status effects. Something along the lines of reducing hand to hand / ranged accuracy / thrown accuracy and maybe AP, which scales as you get in progressively worse shape sounds like a worthy addition.

 

[Lurker King]

We need more opera songs in cRPG trailers! :D I hope that Timeslip take the necessary time to tweek the game properly instead of rushing in to release a half-cooked game. You have a interesting idea here, don't ruin it.

 

[Alienman]

Looks interesting. Is that ragdoll effects I see when people get knocked out? Thumbs up if it is.

 

[HoboForEternity]

Good luck with the kickstarter! Will chip in some if i have the money later .

 

[Timeslip]

We need more opera songs in cRPG trailers! :D I hope that Timeslip take the necessary time to tweek the game properly instead of rushing in to release a half-cooked game. You have a interesting idea here, don't ruin it.

I'm throwing everything I have at Vigilantes and I'll do my absolute best! Even if it gets greenlit quickly, it will be some time before Vigilantes is released on Steam.

Looks interesting. Is that ragdoll effects I see when people get knocked out? Thumbs up if it is.

Cheers. The knockouts are animations, but they've been paired with attacks and timed very carefully. The melee system took weeks to tweak, but it feels like time well spent.

Good luck with the kickstarter! Will chip in some if i have the money later .

Thank you HoboForEternity. I appreciate that. There will be a (fairly) limited number of earlybird copies, at around half price, and even the regular tier offers a decent discount. Kickstarter doesn't go live for around another week and a half.

 

[HoboForEternity]

Well, if i can get my credit card request approved in time, i will probably back then. Recently graduated college and came out of unemployment, so at the very least i can afford the lowest tier that include copy of the game

Also will try the demo tomorrow i think. Adjustinv your mind and body from being a NEET for months to full time work+ freelance work is more taxing than i thought hahaha

 

[Lurker King]

I'm throwing everything I have at Vigilantes and I'll do my absolute best! Even if it gets greenlit quickly, it will be some time before Vigilantes is released on Steam.

Look, I don’t know much, but if I may give you a personal tip, keep improving the game with the feedback you are getting here before you decide to move forward. Once the game is out, you will not have the time or the peace of mind to make the necessary improvements. It may not look like it, but the Codex has knowledgeable players that can improve your game a lot. Small-time cRPGs like yours are only successful when they stand out in something (combat system, writing, etc.) and if you take your time to achieve something worthwhile here, the fans will follow. Otherwise, it will be a missed opportunity.

Infinitron, this guy needs a developer tag.

 

[Infinitron]

Infinitron, this guy needs a developer tag.

Uh, okay. DarkUnderlord, Crooked Bee, Timeslip needs a developer tag (Timeslip Softworks)

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Will back this game.

 

[Timeslip]

Well, if i can get my credit card request approved in time, i will probably back then. Recently graduated college and came out of unemployment, so at the very least i can afford the lowest tier that include copy of the game

Also will try the demo tomorrow i think. Adjustinv your mind and body from being a NEET for months to full time work+ freelance work is more taxing than i thought hahaha

Thanks HoboForEternity. Glad to hear you've landed on your feet. I work a lot of hours too, but doing something you enjoy definitely takes the sting out of it.

Look, I don’t know much, but if I may give you a personal tip, keep improving the game with the feedback you are getting here before you decide to move forward. Once the game is out, you will not have the time or the peace of mind to make the necessary improvements. It may not look like it, but the Codex has knowledgeable players that can improve your game a lot. Small-time cRPGs like yours are only successful when they stand out in something (combat system, writing, etc.) and if you take your time to achieve something worthwhile here, the fans will follow. Otherwise, it will be a missed opportunity.

I'm with you on that. Have updated the demo ten times so far, and a good bit of that is from feedback. Have watched every lets play so far, taking notes. Working on something for so long makes it very hard to see certain flaws, and Vigilantes is way better from the feedback I've gotten so far. One thing I really regret is not posting here much sooner. I won't be able to update Vigilantes again until sometime during or after the Kickstarter, but there's plenty of time and room for improvement. Yeah, definitely need a few places to stand out to have any chance of getting heard.

Will back this game.

Thank you, ERYFKRAD!

Just checked, and Vigilantes is currently in 18th place on IndieDB. That's the highest it's gone so far!

 

[Got bored and left]

Very neat concept, will throw some money your way come Kickstarter, I think

Will the game have more companions than the 3 already announced? And what about our protagonist, Sam, will we be able to customise his stats before the start of the game, or are his starting specs going to be set in stone?

 

[Timeslip]

Very neat concept, will throw some money your way come Kickstarter, I think

Thank you, ArtB!

Will the game have more companions than the 3 already announced? And what about our protagonist, Sam, will we be able to customise his stats before the start of the game, or are his starting specs going to be set in stone?

I'd expect 6-8 companions in the final game. Some work has been done on a few other companions, but they aren't quite ready yet. Yes, you can customise Sam at the start. Given the combat focus, I'd recommend investing in close combat or firearms. For the alpha, close combat is probably best, as your first 2 companions are leaning more towards ranged combat.

 

[Drowed]

This needs to go on greenlight, so I can vote 'yes' and save it in my favorites so I will know/remember when it's released. Unfortunately, it's unlikely that I would be able to help the game on Kickstarter, considering the price of the dollar these days. (Shitty of 3rd world country's wages and such.) But depending on the price when it's released, which is usually way more affordable than buying the game in dollars, taking by what I've seen so far, I have every interest in buying it.

It looks good, reminds me of Dead State, but I don't know exactly what or why. And I'm a sucker for turn-based games with perks. Dunno why, I guess I loved it so much in Fallout that it was burned in my mind or something. I haven't tried the demo yet, but I'm downloading it right now.

 

[Timeslip]

This needs to go on greenlight, so I can vote 'yes' and save it in my favorites so I will know/remember when it's released. Unfortunately, it's unlikely that I would be able to help the game on Kickstarter, considering the price of the dollar these days. (Shitty of 3rd world country's wages and such.) But depending on the price when it's released, which is usually way more affordable than buying the game in dollars, taking by what I've seen so far, I have every interest in buying it.

It's hitting Greenlight the same day as Kickstarter, so please give it a vote! Totally understand about the Kickstarter, and thank you all the same. Steam's regional pricing definitely makes sense.

It looks good, reminds me of Dead State, but I don't know exactly what or why. And I'm a sucker for turn-based games with perks. Dunno why, I guess I loved it so much in Fallout that it was burned in my mind or something. I haven't tried the demo yet, but I'm downloading it right now.

Glad you like the look of Vigilantes, Drowed. Same here, X-Com was the first notable TBS I played and it made a real impression on me (so much that over 20 years later, I'm working on a similar type of game). Had a lot of fun with the Fallout games too. Sure, let me know what you think.

 

[Drowed]

Played for a bit, 3 to 4 "levels", here's my take on it so far.

First, the technical problems/questions that I've encountered:

1. Somehow, I couldn't 'save' the game mannualy. Using 'ESC' then clicking on SAVE (or even LOAD) does nothing. The "autosave" worked, somehow - I can load the game at the main screen, but not during the session.
   
2. For some reason, Sam Contino portrait on the Character Screen turned blank/white.
3. Tactical repositioning is off in the demo? I can't click on "Yes", it doesn't don't work, the game only continue when I click on "No".
4. The gameplay is still a bit "cluncky". When you right-click for your character to move, the "line" should appear way faster, I would even prefer it to be instantaneous. And other than that, shouldn't the movement line appear when you mouse over the squares, without the need to click on them? I also would say that you should use the mouse clicks "universally": right click would be always "confirm", left click always "cancel". So, for example, when you right-click in any place on the floor and set a path, clicking the right button again (no matter where it was on the screen) would make the character move that location, and clicking with the left button would cancel the trajectory chosen. Something in the way of controlling the game seems inconsistent.
5. Moving "asks" for confirmation (you need to click twice), but attacking don't? It's a bit strange, but maybe it's something that I can get used to. But, then again, the consistency is important (as above). Maybe a red arrow appears when you click the first time to show that you will attack the enemy, and the second click confirms it?
   
6. After performing an attack, even if I had some AP left, apparently I couldn't perform any other action - clicking anywhere did nothing. To get to do actions again, I need to click on the bottom left menu and change the attack/item "option" (say, change it from physical attack to gun, then change to physical attack again) and only then my character could walk or strike again. It's a bug, I guess? Or should you only be able to attack once and then the turn should end?

Now, some general suggestions:

1. Make the AP 'squares' a little smaller, I would say half the actual size. And show the total/used number somewhere near. I have the same complaint in relation to Divinity:Original Sin, numbers are always more straightforward.
2. When an enemy moves, the camera should follow him, since it was centered in his start position anyway. It is easier to understand what is happening.
3. The percentages that appear when you do a mouseover on an enemy need to be more obvious. What the value above means? And the one below in blue? Maybe even some extra information in the box that appears, like the weapon that the enemy is using (and if it's affected by some status).
   
4. As you already know, aimed attacks would be nice. But maybe some more attack types at least? For example, with a high enough level in certain skills, it might be interesting to release some special attacks? (For example, close combat level 40+ would give you an "attack with elbow - 25% chance to stun for a turn, 15% less damage"; or maybe you have to buy a perk for some of those attacks? The same for guns, or even, maybe, some other skills?)
5. More perks? There's only a few of them, but I guess that's because it's a demo, right? Look at Fallout/Original Sin/Underrail for inspiration for more.
6. Sliders for animation speed in the options menu. And talking about speed, the melee attacks looks a bit slow, but the walking/movement looks way too fast (for a "normal" movement speed, at least).

Things that I liked:

1. The overall mood of the game.
2. Skillchecks in dialogue. I love this, I hope that there's a lot of them in the full game, and that they check other skills, depending on the context.
3. The portrait art, it's nice, it reminds me a little of the look of old comics.
4. Turn-based combat. What can I say, I love this kind of game.
5. Dialogues seems interesting so far.

----

Overall, I would say that it has potential. But I will play some more later, I may be missing some things.

 

[Zanzoken]

Looks cool, save for later.

 

[Timeslip]

Played for a bit, 3 to 4 "levels", here's my take on it so far.

First, the technical problems/questions that I've encountered:

1. Somehow, I couldn't 'save' the game mannualy. Using 'ESC' then clicking on SAVE (or even LOAD) does nothing. The "autosave" worked, somehow - I can load the game at the main screen, but not during the session.
   
2. For some reason, Sam Contino portrait on the Character Screen turned blank/white.
3. Tactical repositioning is off in the demo? I can't click on "Yes", it doesn't don't work, the game only continue when I click on "No".
4. The gameplay is still a bit "cluncky". When you right-click for your character to move, the "line" should appear way faster, I would even prefer it to be instantaneous. And other than that, shouldn't the movement line appear when you mouse over the squares, without the need to click on them? I also would say that you should use the mouse clicks "universally": right click would be always "confirm", left click always "cancel". So, for example, when you right-click in any place on the floor and set a path, clicking the right button again (no matter where it was on the screen) would make the character move that location, and clicking with the left button would cancel the trajectory chosen. Something in the way of controlling the game seems inconsistent.
5. Moving "asks" for confirmation (you need to click twice), but attacking don't? It's a bit strange, but maybe it's something that I can get used to. But, then again, the consistency is important (as above). Maybe a red arrow appears when you click the first time to show that you will attack the enemy, and the second click confirms it?
   
6. After performing an attack, even if I had some AP left, apparently I couldn't perform any other action - clicking anywhere did nothing. To get to do actions again, I need to click on the bottom left menu and change the attack/item "option" (say, change it from physical attack to gun, then change to physical attack again) and only then my character could walk or strike again. It's a bug, I guess? Or should you only be able to attack once and then the turn should end?

Sorry to hear you've had these problems. 1, 2, 3 and 6 are worrying. I've had no problem saving the game, or with the portrait. Tactical repositioning is enabled in demo, and you should be able to move after performing an action. Due to the nature of PC gaming, with a lot of different hardware and software combinations, certain issues can arise on some computers. Has anyone else experienced these problems?

As to 4, I can speed up the line. I found the line continually drawing different paths on moving the mouse around distracting and it might cause performance issues on older hardware. It's something I could look at.
5: The thinking was to show the path first, so the player is happy with it, as there may be factors, such as tiles being on fire, which could change the expected route of the path.

Played for a bit, 3 to 4 "levels", here's my take on it so far.
Now, some general suggestions:

1. Make the AP 'squares' a little smaller, I would say half the actual size. And show the total/used number somewhere near. I have the same complaint in relation to Divinity:Original Sin, numbers are always more straightforward.
2. When an enemy moves, the camera should follow him, since it was centered in his start position anyway. It is easier to understand what is happening.
3. The percentages that appear when you do a mouseover on an enemy need to be more obvious. What the value above means? And the one below in blue? Maybe even some extra information in the box that appears, like the weapon that the enemy is using (and if it's affected by some status).
   
4. As you already know, aimed attacks would be nice. But maybe some more attack types at least? For example, with a high enough level in certain skills, it might be interesting to release some special attacks? (For example, close combat level 40+ would give you an "attack with elbow - 25% chance to stun for a turn, 15% less damage"; or maybe you have to buy a perk for some of those attacks? The same for guns, or even, maybe, some other skills?)
5. More perks? There's only a few of them, but I guess that's because it's a demo, right? Look at Fallout/Original Sin/Underrail for inspiration for more.
6. Sliders for animation speed in the options menu. And talking about speed, the melee attacks looks a bit slow, but the walking/movement looks way too fast (for a "normal" movement speed, at least).

1: Yeah, probably should have the number in there too
2: Go to options -> game -> camera control -> set to "Computer"
3: If an enemy has a status, it will show in the box. Blue is critical, btw. There's definitely a balance between how much info to provide and the size of UI element. It's something I may need to work on some more.
4: It's possible, but there are couple of problems with offering specific attacks, like elbow. The system weighs up a lot of possibilities to match an attack animation with an evade/impact pair, including orthagonal/diagonal, the weapon type of defender, obstructions on tiles adjacent to defender. The idea of special attacks, opened up by perks, with special effects is a good one, though, and will look into it.
5: There will be lots more perks!
6: I could change animation speed for movement, but the melee combat system effectively requires manual tuning. I have done this once already to speed up the attacks and improve the pacing. It could potentially be looked at again.

Things that I liked:

1. The overall mood of the game.
2. Skillchecks in dialogue. I love this, I hope that there's a lot of them in the full game, and that they check other skills, depending on the context.
3. The portrait art, it's nice, it reminds me a little of the look of old comics.
4. Turn-based combat. What can I say, I love this kind of game.
5. Dialogues seems interesting so far.

----

Overall, I would say that it has potential. But I will play some more later, I may be missing some things.

Thanks a lot for the detailed feedback. I hope the tech problems aren't widespread.

 

[Timeslip]

Looks cool, save for later.

Cheers, hope you enjoy!

 

[HoboForEternity]

downloading the alpha now. gunna try it soon.

 

[Timeslip]

Thanks, HoboForEternity. If you run into any of the problems Drowed encountered in #41, please let me know.

 

[HoboForEternity]

will post my comment as i play (will keep edit stuff as i discover some bugs or comments)

1. in combat, i cannot bind key. when the mouse click, it just show the ". . . " if i click button. works in main menu tho.

2. i think the tutorial box in character creation should be placed in more visible place. maybe make it a "new window" when the creation commence, and the option to "do not show this again" for people who have played and read it

3. you should really give name to the firing mode in the weapon box. do it simply like Age of Decadence did.

4. should be able to click dialogue with numbers on keyboard as most rpg out there. but this is alpha, i just assume you just havent got time to put it

okay, i think that's it for complaints.

played the first and second mission with a very shitty build i am just putting points blindly as for now hahaha, but here's what i think:

1. the combat is enjoyable so far. rough around the edge and i haven't put enough time to understand the core mechanics, but i think it will be very fun and challenging

2. the dialogue is pretty good. i only skimmed it, and there are no context whatsoever so i am kinda confused. i like the skillcheck and how it directly affect the combat. (there are morale points if you can intimidate the guys from first mission, that's pretty neat. although i haven't put much effort how it affect their stats and stuff. just skimmed trough the tutorial too ). there should be alot like these in different kinds of situations.

3. shop seems functional enough. need a "back" button (or there are i just didnt find it?) to go back to the buy/sell page.

4. i assume the game structure will like new shadowrun games? a "home/base" hub then you go to new places on a missions?

5. run surprisingly well on my integrated graphics (bought new video card, and it no longer support VGA input, so i plugged my old monitor to the integrated VGA until my new monitor arrive) 95% 60 FPS at 1366x768 and max setting. only stutter/lags when rotating quickly or loading.

6. dig the artstyle too, both portrait and graphics. it has alot of potential, and you probably can make it noir-y by utilizing contrasting lights and darkness.

overall i am pretty impressed, and more polished than i expected. it will just be getting better as you better the mechanics, UI, etc, etc.

good luck and regards to other members of the team!

 

[HoboForEternity]

anyway, any plan to be able to target specific body parts ala V.A.T.S? that probably would solve the "skill scales damage" problem said by some posters. me personally have no problems with it, but i agree it would make sense if it only affect accuracy, not damage directly. but you're the game designer, not me, as long as it is balanced and fun it wouldn't complain.

 

[Timeslip]

will post my comment as i play (will keep edit stuff as i discover some bugs or comments)

1. in combat, i cannot bind key. when the mouse click, it just show the ". . . " if i click button. works in main menu tho.

2. i think the tutorial box in character creation should be placed in more visible place. maybe make it a "new window" when the creation commence, and the option to "do not show this again" for people who have played and read it

3. you should really give name to the firing mode in the weapon box. do it simply like Age of Decadence did.

4. should be able to click dialogue with numbers on keyboard as most rpg out there. but this is alpha, i just assume you just havent got time to put it

okay, i think that's it for complaints.

Thanks for giving it a try, HoboForEternity. Really appreciate the feedback, good and bad!

1: Will look into this next update.
2: Makes sense to window the tutorial boxes. I meant to add an option to disable them in alpha 10, but it slipped off the list. Windowed tutorial box is likely, will definitely allow disabling tutorials.
3: Agreed. The reticule change is very slight, and not obvious at a glance.
4: Yeah, the to do list runs to hundreds of elements, but this won't be hard to add.

played the first and second mission with a very shitty build i am just putting points blindly as for now hahaha, but here's what i think:

1. the combat is enjoyable so far. rough around the edge and i haven't put enough time to understand the core mechanics, but i think it will be very fun and challenging

2. the dialogue is pretty good. i only skimmed it, and there are no context whatsoever so i am kinda confused. i like the skillcheck and how it directly affect the combat. (there are morale points if you can intimidate the guys from first mission, that's pretty neat. although i haven't put much effort how it affect their stats and stuff. just skimmed trough the tutorial too ). there should be alot like these in different kinds of situations.

3. shop seems functional enough. need a "back" button (or there are i just didnt find it?) to go back to the buy/sell page.

4. i assume the game structure will like new shadowrun games? a "home/base" hub then you go to new places on a missions?

5. run surprisingly well on my integrated graphics (bought new video card, and it no longer support VGA input, so i plugged my old monitor to the integrated VGA until my new monitor arrive) 95% 60 FPS at 1366x768 and max setting. only stutter/lags when rotating quickly or loading.

6. dig the artstyle too, both portrait and graphics. it has alot of potential, and you probably can make it noir-y by utilizing contrasting lights and darkness.

overall i am pretty impressed, and more polished than i expected. it will just be getting better as you better the mechanics, UI, etc, etc.

good luck and regards to other members of the team!

2: Yeah, I guess it takes a while to get a better feel for what's happening in the world. I'm hoping to add as many skill checks as possible. A little concerned about coming up with a lot of different ones. You can just say "This is the police, put down your weapons" every time : )
3: Generally I've just used the shop button in the top tab, but will look at back button too.
4: Yeah, the main home UI serves as a hub. Surveillance isn't in the demo, but in the full game, you'll have to run surveillance to find where there's criminal activity first, then you can launch a mission against them. To destroy the gangs completely, you'll have to locate their leaders and facilities, which required a much higher level of surveillance.
5: That's great news. I have tried to optimise the code and graphics as much as possible along the way. I'm guessing you've a pretty solid CPU? I tested it on my father's computer, it's a 2nd gen i5 with integrated, and 4GB, and it was giving around 30FPS, with the GPU being the limiting factor.

Glad you liked it overall. There's room and time for improvement, so it will get better. Cheers!

 

[Timeslip]

anyway, any plan to be able to target specific body parts ala V.A.T.S? that probably would solve the "skill scales damage" problem said by some posters. me personally have no problems with it, but i agree it would make sense if it only affect accuracy, not damage directly. but you're the game designer, not me, as long as it is balanced and fun it wouldn't complain.

It's very high on the list of nice to haves. It would add depth to combat, and it doesn't seem overly difficult from a technical perspective, but it's difficult to give a definitive yes, without prototyping it first, and seeing how it works with the rest of the moving parts, and from the perspective of balance.