Grand Strategy Victoria 3

[what am i doing]

Some of you seem to be mistaken in one thing, companies job is not to make "the best game possible" it's to make a game that will maximize it's market reach.

I think everyone here is aware of that.

 

[Fedora Master]

PDX is achieving neither.

 

[thesecret1]

Some of you seem to be mistaken in one thing, companies job is not to make "the best game possible" it's to make a game that will maximize it's market reach.

Nah, that's just a stereotype. Most companies are ran by twats that absolutely put their personal interests and agendas ahead of profits; it's not like shareholders are gonna fire them over some small bullshit like game mechanics not being hyper optimized for the mouth breather market. Not to mention, the development of the game itself usually isn't micromanaged by the company board; it gets relegated to some manager below that delegates it to the devs and there are just some periodic reports.

Paradox makes shittier and shittier games because it is more and more incompetent. Johan, for example, clearly honestly believes that systems relying on ten different kinds of mana are superior to a fully simulated economy; that's why he makes the garbage he does, not because he seeks to maximize some profits.

 

[FreeKaner]

With the V3 community patch having gotten to the point where the game doesn't crash every week I've been able to play it a bit more, and I think my main impression is that they haven't taken Victoria 2 and modernized it; rather, they've taken their newer games and tried to hammer them into something Victoria 2-ish, without much success. It doesn't feel like "V2 with pretty graphics and some gameplay improvements". It feels like someone took their most recent games, like HoI4, and reskinned them to look victorian. The construction queue works like HoI4, trade seems to work like HoI4, the UI looks like their newer games, I think the pop system is basically the one from Stellaris, decision trees have been replaced with EU4-style missions, etc.

People have said in the past that Paradox couldn't make Victoria 2 today if they wanted to and others have said that probably isn't the case, but I think it is. Paradox legitimately can't make Victoria 2 again, all they can do is reskin their new games to look victorian. The devs have said of the leak, "We’re not mad, just disappointed." and I'd say that's how I feel about the game itself.

When they announced it would be an open economic system and market instead of a closed one like Victoria 2, it was obvious it was going to be Stellaris. I still like what they did with war systems but the market & trade systems are very disappointing indeed. At least Victoria 2 is not obsolete.

 

[thesecret1]

Reminder that Imperator was Johan's "Magnum Opus"

 

[Seigneur Locklear]

it's to make a game that will maximize it's market reach

You'd have a case were it not for the fact that grand strategy games are still a highly niche genre which doesn't appeal to the wider audiences in general. The core fanbase which still remains to this day for most of the part, albeit most of them are now 100% pirating paradox (like I am) due to their predatory business schemes, is the one which has carried these games since the days of eu3, hoi3, ck/ck2 and victoria 2. Paradox has literally been biting the hand that feeds it for the past 5+ years in HOPES that they'll spread to the wider audiences but they have consistently failed to do just that and ck3 console is/will be their latest failure on the table.

 

[Axioms]

The problem with Johan mostly seems to be that he is not very smart. Like he isn't an idiot but he's barely above average if that. Mana is his system of choice because he can't personally conceptualize a superior system. Designing the systems is too complex for his 105 IQ brain. So anytime you put him in charge of design you get mana because that is the only thing he can handle mentally. If you gave him a better system he'd support it probably but he can't get there himself.

 

[hivemind]

Reminder that Imperator was Johan's "Magnum Opus"

Imperator is right now the best paradox game out there.

The fact that they dropped it as a great stain on the company.

 

[hivemind]

you can literally enslave white "people" and forcefully relocate them to your med megacities to eternally work in your mines

no other game can compete

 

[HeroMarine]

Reminder that Imperator was Johan's "Magnum Opus"

Imperator is right now the best paradox game out there.

What's you and Theodora with this game? Is it hormonal?

you can literally enslave white "people" and forcefully relocate them to your med megacities to eternally work in your mines

no other game can compete

Ever heard of Field of Glory: Empires?

 

[Sranchammer]

This game is going to be HUGE

 

[Theodora]

What's you and Theodora with this game? Is it hormonal?

Huh? Go try Imperator post-2.0, if it had launched like this instead of Johan's millionth mana obsession, it would easily be one of Paradox's most successful titles. Instead it's indefinitely shelved thanks to that, covid, and the subject of this thread needing more manpower.

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

I always knew this was going to be shit, the only question was always if it could be fixed.

Just had a great time playing Vic 2 HPM with some nations I hadn't bothered with before (Korea, West African primitives, Qing). I'm currently finishing my Central American Republic playthrough, after which I'll probably manage to, once again, get Victoria out of my system for a few more years.

It's still depressing to know there'll never be anything better, though.

 

[Axioms]

I always knew this was going to be shit, the only question was always if it could be fixed.

Just had a great time playing Vic 2 HPM with some nations I hadn't bothered with before (Korea, West African primitives, Qing). I'm currently finishing my Central American Republic playthrough, after which I'll probably manage to, once again, get Victoria out of my system for a few more years.

It's still depressing to know there'll never be anything better, though.

Grey Eminence? That's the most similar existing game to Vicky2 if Vicky3 is shit.

 

[thesecret1]

The problem with Johan mostly seems to be that he is not very smart. Like he isn't an idiot but he's barely above average if that. Mana is his system of choice because he can't personally conceptualize a superior system. Designing the systems is too complex for his 105 IQ brain. So anytime you put him in charge of design you get mana because that is the only thing he can handle mentally. If you gave him a better system he'd support it probably but he can't get there himself.

I think it's just laziness on his part. Laziness so advanced he convinced himself it's cleverness. Making a simulated system is hard. It's difficult to balance. You fuck up one part of the system, and the whole thing comes crashing down on you. Manas, on the other hand, are more or less completely independent systems, meaning it's much, much easier to manage them – you know there's only so many ways bird mana can be gained, so you know how expensive stuff should be to present the intended challenge for the player. Now, imagine you plan to shit out 10+ expansions that each involves these systems in some way. If it's mana, it's easy. It's a self-contained system. Just throw in something the player needs to spend mana on, maybe compensate the extra spending with some way to get a bit more mana income going, and you're done. Now imagine you want to do that stuff with money, while EVERY system in the game operates with money. It's very easy to fuck up, very easy to create exploits for players, and even easier to completely brick the AI (especially with how retarded Paradox AI is). And that's bad for Paradox bussiness model. For example, many EU4 expansions reek of having been made by some Paradox B-team, while the A-team is working on some new release. B-team that clearly manages to fuck up even "expansions" that just add in a couple "press me to spend mana for a buff" buttons and the like. You can't let such a team mess with a simulated system.

 

[Jenkem]

modern pdx games are only liked by midwits

 

[Fedora Master]

modern pdx games are only liked by midwits

And Leftoids and trannies.

 

[Seigneur Locklear]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/dev-diary-44-battles.1522286/

So the cat is absolutely out of the bag now and all the fears were justified and warranted in reference to the war system. You pick a general and click one of the three buttons - that's literally the entire extent of the grand player agency in this grand strategy game. No forts, no strategic infiltrations and raids, no forced marches, no doctrines (they are literally assigned randomly per battle according to general's traits).

 

[hivemind]

that's literally what heads of state do during wars

military history fans and toy soldiers appreciators btfo by based wiz

 

[FreeKaner]

Battle system is so good in Victoria 3, it is a shame that economics & trade part of the game is Stellaris instead of Victoria 2.

 

[Carpincho Pampeano]

that's literally what heads of state do during wars

military history fans and toy soldiers appreciators btfo by based wiz

Are you shilling for free? You shouldn't.

 

[hivemind]

I get paid in discord privileges.

 

[Axioms]

Paradox making their war system too realistic for the "realism" crowd. The secret is that Paradox games are just mobile idle games(For big boys!). Always have been. Now that the, not even interesting, military micro is gone the bloom is off the rose. The secret is out. Ya'll are just fucking normies in wigs!

 

[Tyrr]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/dev-diary-44-battles.1522286/

So the cat is absolutely out of the bag now and all the fears were justified and warranted in reference to the war system. You pick a general and click one of the three buttons - that's literally the entire extent of the grand player agency in this grand strategy game. No forts, no strategic infiltrations and raids, no forced marches, no doctrines (they are literally assigned randomly per battle according to general's traits).

I lost all faith in humanity reading the reactions to that dev diary.

 

[Konjad]

I've waited for over a decade for a V2 successor only to be certain to ignore it.

 

[Delterius]

No forts, no strategic infiltrations and raids, no forced marches, no doctrines (they are literally assigned randomly per battle according to general's traits).

have you played other grand strategy games