World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 - VTMB sequel from The Chinese Room - coming early 2025

[NecroLord]

I thought the original bloodlines was a great intro to the series. Though I am biased as it was quite literally my introduction to the series. It included most aspects of the series in some way, with just enough details to get you interested but not so many that it bogs you down and gets cheesy. For example I do recall Betram telling you that if you’re a 4th or 5th generation methuselah your blood is pretty potent. but you never actually meet any in the game yet you get the idea of how powerful these individuals would be.

Vampire Deus Ex.
That's why it is so awesome. It tried to make the Storyteller system work into a videogame.

 

[GentlemanCthulhu]

I really wish they would just cancel this like they initially wanted to.

 

[Fedora Master]

I really wish they would just cancel this like they initially wanted to.

Too much investment. Sunk cost fallacy at work.
They're never going to make the development money back, or make a cult hit, yet they keep on trucking. Doesn't help that the people at PDX couldn't tell a good game from utter shit if their lives depended on it.

 

[Storyfag]

Parliament of Knives is superb.

It is. I have reached Chapter 9 by now, and am captivated. Yeah, not a lot of skill checks... but I would say no less than in Bloodlines' dialogues. Playing as Lasombra masquerading as Ventrue is deeply satisfying. Would have loved Tzimisce content (masquerading as Tremere, mayhap? The Usurpers are, after all, merely our errant bloodline), but the Magisters are my second favourite Clan (and that has nothing to do with Sabbat affiliation, as I was introduced to the setting through Vampire: the Dark Ages, I just enjoy both Clans' philosophies of respectively unrelenting domination of one's environs and rampant social darwinism, very Sith of both), so I'm game.

 

[Roguey]

I really wish they would just cancel this like they initially wanted to.

Too much investment. Sunk cost fallacy at work.
They're never going to make the development money back, or make a cult hit, yet they keep on trucking. Doesn't help that the people at PDX couldn't tell a good game from utter shit if their lives depended on it.

Bloodlines 2 is also vital as a Brand Builder. They want more people to pay for a license to make World of Darkness media. Ones with big budgets that sell a lot of copies, not just niche visual novels and interactive fiction or the odd eurojank like that Werewolf game. Of course it's shaping up to be a Brand Destroyer, so filled with hopium/copium that they can't see it.

 

[Storyfag]

And Paradox will exclaim: "I am become Disney, the Destroyer of Brands!"

 

[Semiurge]

Paradox obviously got scared by the HSL version's miserable unsalvageable state and decided that the scope needed to be crunched down, so that the end product would at least resemble a game. This will be an extremely linear combination of a first person blood shooter and an interactive story.

 

[Roguey]

Paradox obviously got scared by the HSL version's miserable unsalvageable state and decided that the scope needed to be crunched down, so that the end product would at least resemble a game.

Reducing scope is good, making Dragon Age II: Vampire Edition is their own brand of idiocy.

 

[Fedora Master]

It bears pointing out that PDX have had nothing but flops for at least two years.

 

[Herumor]

I wonder who's gonna buy the World of Darkness IP next and bankrupt themselves into failure after failure.

 

[NecroLord]

I wonder who's gonna buy the World of Darkness IP next and brankupt themselves into failure after failure.

Larian Studios.

 

[Caim]

I wonder who's gonna buy the World of Darkness IP next and brankupt themselves into failure after failure.

The Codex does through a crowdfunding campaign, then licenses the IP to Tyranicon.

 

[Spectral Pontifex]

Yeah, not a lot of skill checks... but I would say no less than in Bloodlines' dialogues.

Too many skill checks can hurt in IF. If not done properly, it heavily encourages metagaming, so I am glad that this game is on the lighter side. I much prefer when interactive novels emphasize your concrete actions and words, which is the case in this game. Missing out on an entire path just because your black magic skill is 79% and not 80% can piss one off.

... [T]he Magisters are my second favourite Clan and that has nothing to do with Sabbat affiliation ....

Careful with these heretical thoughts, brother. If I didn't know any better, I would have thought you to be a Camarilla rat. The Sword of Caine can never be broken.

 

[The President]

This game is a great example of why companies generally should and do stick to what they are good at. Paradox makes the bulk of its money on in-house strategy games. No doubt why the new CEO (who is actually the old CEO) is putting the bulk of their resources back on just that, after the last CEO made a lot of investments in outside studios.

We’ll see how this game goes. There is always that small chance they learned their lesson, but when you look at the grand scheme of things they aren’t going anywhere as a business and were perfectly fine with cancelling like they do so many other games.

 

[duskvile]

This game is a great example of why companies generally should and do stick to what they are good at. Paradox makes the bulk of its money on in-house strategy games. No doubt why the new CEO (who is actually the old CEO) is putting the bulk of their resources back on just that, after the last CEO made a lot of investments in outside studios.

We’ll see how this game goes. There is always that small chance they learned their lesson, but when you look at the grand scheme of things they aren’t going anywhere as a business and were perfectly fine with cancelling like they do so many other games.r

Not for everyone. I don't play strategy games at all. I'm not sure if I'm niche client. I would like more immersive sims, FPS/RPG hybrids in Vampire Dark ages. I welcome this Paradox's intiative for new brands and games.

 

[Harthwain]

Too many skill checks can hurt in IF. If not done properly, it heavily encourages metagaming, so I am glad that this game is on the lighter side.

You can create hidden checks. Then you can only metagame after reading it in a wiki or experimenting yourself.

 

[DeepOcean]

In fact, I’d argue the opposite: what makes VtM work is exactly the fact that Troika captured the essence of VtM without getting bogged down in superfluous details.

Yep, usually we get scenario 1: boring lore dispensers for characters(Nu Obsidian specialty) or scenario 2: generic cookie cutter characters that have very little in connection with the setting they are in and are basically transplanted walking tropes.

Scenario 1 result is caused by an excess of fear and lack of creativity, scenario 2 is caused by hubris and ego. Having someone with the courage and creativity but still with enough humility on a position of power to not kill the golden egg goose, that is a rare combination, that is why we talk about Bloodlines to this day.

This is one of the reasons why only because someone did something on the past, that doesnt mean they can do it again, people change, particularly if you look to Outer Worlds, that was a product driven by fear (Leonanrd Boyarsky and Tim Cain look like two fearful boomers now) and the HSL Bloodlines looked like some ego trip from Mitsoda and company.

My biggest curiosity is if the Chinese Room, because of the insane ego trip of Mitsoda's version are going to overcorrect and go to the safe fearful Obsidian pole, things revealed so far about Phyre appearance and gameplay arent exactly encouraging.

 

[Semiurge]

It's like the old adage - "risk nothing, gain nothing".

 

[Spectral Pontifex]

Too many skill checks can hurt in IF. If not done properly, it heavily encourages metagaming, so I am glad that this game is on the lighter side.

You can create hidden checks. Then you can only metagame after reading it in a wiki or experimenting yourself.

Doesn't really solve the issue. Usually it's pretty clear what skill it checks for anyway - as it somewhat should be - so you might still be tempted to metagame.

The author of the Infinity saga, Paul Wang, talked about the issue of implementing too straightforward skill checks. One has to create more nuance, so the player doesn't just intuitively plow through obvious skill checks and must actively think about the decisions. I think it's best when the choices are not just about success or failure, but have explicit narrative consequences.

 

[Harthwain]

Doesn't really solve the issue. Usually it's pretty clear what skill it checks for anyway - as it somewhat should be - so you might still be tempted to metagame.

The author of the Infinity saga, Paul Wang, talked about the issue of implementing too straightforward skill checks. One has to create more nuance, so the player doesn't just intuitively plow through obvious skill checks and must actively think about the decisions. I think it's best when the choices are not just about success or failure, but have explicit narrative consequences.

Yeah, Disco Elysium does exactly this - not only the skill checks are hidden, there are also many of them, for many skills and the outcomes (success or failure) can be interesting in and of itself. You could go even further and implement gradual success or failure. I swear I read "moderate success" somewhere, but I am not sure where it was... Could've been some tabletop.

 

[Storyfag]

Careful with these heretical thoughts, brother. If I didn't know any better, I would have thought you to be a Camarilla rat. The Sword of Caine can never be broken.

Much as I appreciate the ritae, as the name implies the Sword of Caine is a tool. In my Clan's case it is a tool of vengeance against the Usurpers and the teutonic Ventrue vipers. Be aware that titles both of Prince and Bishop are at best secondary to that of Voivode.

 

[Spectral Pontifex]

Yeah, Disco Elysium does exactly this - not only the skill checks are hidden, there are also many of them, for many skills and the outcomes (success or failure) can be interesting in and of itself. You could go even further and implement gradual success or failure. I swear I read "moderate success" somewhere, but I am not sure where it was... Could've been some tabletop.

Some interactive novels sparingly use moderate success as an option.

Low skill - bad outcome, usually ends the scene
Medium skill - neutral outcome, usually tests you further until a concrete outcome is reached.
High skill - good outcome, usually ends the scene.

However, I cannot say with certainty if there is an interactive novel that consistently uses this all the way through.

Careful with these heretical thoughts, brother. If I didn't know any better, I would have thought you to be a Camarilla rat. The Sword of Caine can never be broken.

Much as I appreciate the ritae, as the name implies the Sword of Caine is a tool. In my Clan's case it is a tool of vengeance against the Usurpers and the teutonic Ventrue vipers. Be aware that titles both of Prince and Bishop are at best secondary to that of Voivode.

We are all tools of the Dark Father. Whoever fancies himself to be his own master is a delusional fool. Yield to Dark Father's will and you shall discover your true destiny, or else perish like the rest.

 

[ColaWerewolf]

Missing out on an entire path just because your black magic skill is 79% and not 80% can piss one off.

There are some skill-checks like that in Parliament, to be fair. It's to accomplish particularly badass sequences. I replayed the game more times than I can count to try and pass one particular skill check in the late game. Probably replayed it at least 15 times.
There IS a retry sequence if you fail that skill-check. But you need similarly high stats on the retry.
And if you fail both checks, it leads to a gruesome game-over.

late game spoiler

It's the skill-check to betray and destroy the Ventrue Primogen, Vivian Maier, right as she reaches her goal. You need a strength of 70 and composure of 50, minimum, to manage to push her into the Tremere wards from behind. It's by far the most backstabby scene in the whole game, both literally and figuratively.

 

[Storyfag]

Missing out on an entire path just because your black magic skill is 79% and not 80% can piss one off.

There are some skill-checks like that in Parliament, to be fair. It's to accomplish particularly badass sequences. I replayed the game more times than I can count to try and pass one particular skill check in the late game. Probably replayed it at least 15 times.
There IS a retry sequence if you fail that skill-check. But you need similarly high stats on the retry.
And if you fail both checks, it leads to a gruesome game-over.

late game spoiler

It's the skill-check to betray and destroy the Ventrue Primogen, Vivian Maier, right as she reaches her goal. You need a strength of 70 and composure of 50, minimum, to manage to push her into the Tremere wards from behind. It's by far the most backstabby scene in the whole game, both literally and figuratively.

Quite fascinating. I've just finished the CYOA, and had little to no interaction with the Ventrue Primogen. I shall have to replay it a few times, I see.

 

[Spectral Pontifex]

I still haven't emotionally recovered from a Malkavian playthrough in PoK.