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Unity reveals plans to charge developers per game install - plans revoked and CEO fired, lol

thesecret1

Arcane
Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
6,683
Unreal need a proper scripting language. they had one in the past but for some reason they dropped it when they moved to v4
Not everyone want to go low level just to program a fucking game especially the gameplay part
Try doing for ex. coroutines in C++
Coroutines? You mean like the ones Unity has? It's called a timer in Unreal and it's a single line of code. And it's not low-level, Unreal's framework does virtually all the low-level shit for you already.
 

ciox

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
1,387
Unfortunately, that kinda plays to Unreal - Blueprints get around the traditional barrier to using it, which was the expectation that devs knew how to actually dev in c++. Expect a wave soon of game dev academy graduates who literally only know Blueprints.
Wouldn't worry too much about that. Blueprints are vastly overhyped. You, in fact, do need to know how to code if you want to do anything more complicated with them, and even then, they can very easily destroy the game's performance unless you know what you're doing. And at that point, you'll just write it in C++. They're a great supplemental tool when you want to make instances that behave slightly differently from base class and don't feel like crating new child classes just for that, but should you try to make a whole game using them, you'll find it become a buggy mess with abysmal performance.

Trust me, our studio has tried to teach designers and the like to script shit in blueprints on their own, but it quickly turned out to not be feasible for anything but the simplest shit. If you give them free rein, they'll nuke the performance because they don't know what they're doing, meaning a coder needs to review whatever they do, at which point it's easier if the coder just does it himself, and he'll do anything complicated in C++ (because it performs better and is actually faster to write most of the time). So much for blueprints.
Inspect recent UE4 games with asset editors and you will be amazed at how much game logic is implemented with blueprints. NPC/Player objects are fucking massive especially. Part of it is devs wanting to use pre-existing blueprint systems like GameplayEffects and player avatar stuff, part of it is them probably just wanting to avoid C++.
Why one would want to avoid C++ is beyond me, it's far faster than fucking around with blueprint spaghetti. Leads to worse performance and maintainability too, even when used correctly.
Of course, it obscures game logic quite a bit when you use 15 lego blocks to do something. Something that lets you view multiple blueprints at once would help a little, but I don't think that exists.
 

ciox

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
1,387
Unreal need a proper scripting language. they had one in the past but for some reason they dropped it when they moved to v4
Not everyone want to go low level just to program a fucking game especially the gameplay part
Try doing for ex. coroutines in C++
There was nothing wrong with Unrealscript, they just dropped it to speed up UE4's release.
Now that everyone is used to doing game logic with Blueprint they finally announce Verse, but it keeps being delayed from actual full integration with Unreal, and also seems a little wacky.
 

negator2vc

Scholar
Joined
May 1, 2017
Messages
341
Location
Greece
Unreal need a proper scripting language. they had one in the past but for some reason they dropped it when they moved to v4
Not everyone want to go low level just to program a fucking game especially the gameplay part
Try doing for ex. coroutines in C++
Coroutines? You mean like the ones Unity has? It's called a timer in Unreal and it's a single line of code. And it's not low-level, Unreal's framework does virtually all the low-level shit for you already.
I am talking about a executing a series of commands that can pause the function that called them before continuing to next command
Very useful for interaction handlers functions where you want to have readable code and not a spagetti of callback functions ;)

And what does Timer has in common with IEnumerators, yield, etc...?
 

negator2vc

Scholar
Joined
May 1, 2017
Messages
341
Location
Greece
Unreal need a proper scripting language. they had one in the past but for some reason they dropped it when they moved to v4
Not everyone want to go low level just to program a fucking game especially the gameplay part
Try doing for ex. coroutines in C++
There was nothing wrong with Unrealscript, they just dropped it to speed up UE4's release.
Now that everyone is used to doing game logic with Blueprint they finally announce Verse, but it keeps being delayed from actual full integration with Unreal, and also seems a little wacky.
Verse doesn't look promising and certainly isn't up to same level as most other scripting languages from other engines
And unreal 4-5 should had a scripting language from day one
 

thesecret1

Arcane
Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
6,683
Unreal need a proper scripting language. they had one in the past but for some reason they dropped it when they moved to v4
Not everyone want to go low level just to program a fucking game especially the gameplay part
Try doing for ex. coroutines in C++
Coroutines? You mean like the ones Unity has? It's called a timer in Unreal and it's a single line of code. And it's not low-level, Unreal's framework does virtually all the low-level shit for you already.
I am talking about a executing a series of commands that can pause the function that called them before continuing to next command
Very useful for interaction handlers functions where you want to have readable code and not a spagetti of callback functions ;)

And what does Timer has in common with IEnumerators, yield, etc...?
You can do all that with timers and delegates, you just need to structure your code differently. You don't "pause the function", instead you either set a timer to start at a later time (if you want to wait for a set period of time), or you bind to a delegate (if you want to wait until something else happens). Sure, you can also use callbacks I guess, but I've always found Unreal's delegates to be cleaner and more readable. Should you want to do something more heavy duty when it comes to communicating throughout your code that something has happened, you could implement a messaging system (which essentially emulates Unity's signals) - you can find it in Unreal's Lyra demo, though there are other options how to handle it as well.
 

ADL

Prophet
Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Messages
4,102
Location
Nantucket
I have to say, I respect John Riccitiello for fucking over the Genshin Impact. Not many are brave enough to meddle in Chinese business but then again most people don't want to see the inside of their prision camps.
Good luck. By the time HoYo is done fucking them in court, they'll own Unity.

What no one seems to be asking is how Unity determines what is a purchase versus a charity key and how they're differentiating users in crossplay titles like Genshin Impact where it may very well have been installed by a single individual across PC, Playstation, Android and iOS. Not to mention cloud platforms where someone opened up a Chrome browser tab to complete their dailies through GeForce Now or Luna. Now multiply that by millions of people. "A couple cents" adds up quickly when you're paying for the same user multiple times.

Hilarious how they're still refusing to disclose how they're coming up with their invoices.
dPUFlYo.png

NMP80bg.png
 

RobotSquirrel

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Aug 9, 2020
Messages
2,124
Location
Adelaide

(now ex-)Unity Engine Devs publicly discussing how terrible Unity is being run (check the entire thread).
Gist of it is, Devs opposed the decision on the basis it was going to lose to Unreal/Epic got vetoed by brain dead Execs.

Basically confirms all our suspicions. I feel bad for the devs, they seem passionate.

*edit for clarity, I'm referring to engine tech developers within Unity corp.
 
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ciox

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
1,387
Also I dunno if the zoomers realize it, but this is kind of a return to form for Unity. During the early years you had to put down some money just to install the thing, and pay for relatively basic features like render to texture, it was why I went for UDK back then.

https://discussions.unity.com/t/is-rendertexture-a-pro-only-feature/140310/2
The “Pro-only” was before Unity5 came out. Back then, the free version of Unity didn’t have features like point light real-time shadows and render textures. When Unity5 was released, the version system was changed; Now, we have Unity Personal edition which has the complete engine but some stuff mostly aimed at development teams is missing, and Unity Pro, which includes those things.
 

Orud

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May 2, 2021
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Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming!
The only upside is that the argument about 'unity' vs 'unreal' has become really straight forward now.
 
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RobotSquirrel

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Aug 9, 2020
Messages
2,124
Location
Adelaide
The main advantage godot has is that if the devs do something stupid, you can just fork. This is why their licensing is superior. We always have an out if they screw up.

This is also why Unreal is good because they also let you fork which means much like we were doing with UDK, you can just sit on the tech for years and not have to worry. The only thing I don't like is Tencent's involvement as it could end up becoming another Kaspersky type incident where licenses are torn up due to geopolitics. makes me weary about using their tech for Stable Diffusion.

With Unity you were basically at the mercy of the EULA, the change the EULA like they just did and good bye years of hard work. That's playing out right now. Unity's licensing was archaic as fuck and represented attitudes in the industry that were 20 years old. They got away with it for so long because their bread and butter was mobile where no one gave a shit.

They might be able to prevent new sales but they legally cannot remove games you've already bought.
What I mean is they were going to discontinue their products. No longer for sale. I know you cannot remove a product once its been purchased, I have a few rare games on my steam account because of that.
 

racofer

Thread Incliner
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
25,860
Location
Your ignore list.

I predicted this yesterday talking to other developers, I said this will destroy curation as studios will begin removing their games permanently.
This is really really bad. My worst case is playing out right now lol. fuck. This sucks. I know they're probably joking but I know Team Cherry sure as fuck aren't, new Holowknights probably getting canned - this is so bad.

Looks like yet another case where pirates win, again.
 

Spectacle

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 25, 2006
Messages
8,363
They might be able to prevent new sales but they legally cannot remove games you've already bought.
Without new sales naturally won't reach the 200K revenue threshold, so the number of installs don't matter.
 

RobotSquirrel

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Aug 9, 2020
Messages
2,124
Location
Adelaide
Is there a list of these companies?
I was talking staff at Unity Corp.
There is a list out there though of studios, List stolen from Reddit to save you the horrors of going there. Not a complete list however.
Innersloth (Among Us)
This would harm not only us, but fellow game studios of all budgets and sizes. If this goes through, we'd delay content and features our players actually want to port our games elsewhere (as others are also considering). But many developers won't have the time or means to do the same. Stop it. Wtf?
Aggro Crab
This decision puts us and countless other studios in a position where we might not be able to justify using Unity for our future titles. If these changes aren't rolled back, we'll be heavily considering abandoning our wealth of Unity expertise we've accumulated over the years and starting from scratch in a new engine
Devolver Digital (Publisher)
Definitely include what engine you’re using in game pitches.
Garry Newman (Rust)
It's our fault. All of our faults. We sleepwalked into it. We had a ton of warnings. We should have been pressing the eject button when Unity IPO'd in 2020. Every single thing they've done since then has been the exact opposite of what was good for the engine. We had 10 years to make our own engine and never did. I'm sure a lot of game companies are feeling the same today. Let's not make the same mistake again, Rust 2 definitely won't be a Unity game.
Matt Wood (Worked on Half-Life 2, Portal 2, CSGO, Left 4 Dead)
Yeah, this will absolutely be the last Unity game from me. 100%
Mega Crit (Slay the Spire)
Despite the immense amount of time and effort our team has already poured into development on our new title, we will be migrating to a new engine unless the changes are completely reverted and TOS protections are put in place. We have never made a public statement before. That is how badly you fucked up.
Freya Holmer (Shader Forge)
I don't understand how unity's decision could've gotten this far, there must've been a massive amount of backlash internally at unity, but those employees were clearly not listened to by the people making this decision, why?
Cool how a huge fraction of the entire global games industry is under threat and panicking, including the people working at unity, while the people responsible for this decision are dead silent and remain completely unaccountable
Landfall (TABS, Stick Fight)
We would love to stick with the engine we have used to make our games for the past 10 years, but at present, we don't see how we can start any new projects using Unity when there is no way to know what kind of retroactive business model they might throw at us in the future
Rami Ismail (Vlambeer)
Unity should not be able to retroactively change the terms & conditions on products or sales you've already made. Them making this move says they're willing to, and that should be terrifying
Brian Wilson (Forest Cathedral)
As someone who's only developed in Unity, this is bad. As someone who helps run a publisher with upcoming game pass titles, this is very bad. As someone who reviews thousands of pitches a year (95% in Unity), this is extremely bad
George Broussard (3D Realms/Apogee. Duke Nukem 3D)
The Unity board needs to call for resignations. Start with John Riccitiello and most of the exec team responsible for the design and communication of this atrocious idea. They are destroying Unity. Act swiftly. Only with heads on a spike will some semblance of trust be restored
David Szymanski (Gloomwood, Dusk, Iron Lung)
I would be fascinated to know what legal ground they think they're on, trying this bullshit. Maybe it's finally time to drop Unity.
No Brakes Games (Human Fall Flat)
We seriously question whether we can trust Unity moving forward, and whether we can continue to use this game engine. Unity, we're asking you to reverse this decision. Prioritize your customers and players over corporate greed
Running With Scissors (POSTAL)
The gaming industry needs to be nicer to the consumers and the developers. Too much greed these days leading to less games made with passion. There needs to be a unity between everyone who plays and makes games to ensure the future of the industry doesn't go down the shitter.
 

fizzelopeguss

Arcane
Joined
Oct 1, 2004
Messages
966
Location
Equality Street.
Chaditello, half of the unity games is phone shite. None of these cunts were moaning against the predatory lootbox/mtx filth their developer friends were inflicting upon their customers. Now they're in the cross hairs of their middleware they don't like it.
 

Taka-Haradin puolipeikko

Filthy Kalinite
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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/video-game-company-unity-closes-offices-following-death-threat-1.1971525
1h ago

Video-Game Company Unity Closes Offices Following Death Threat​

Jason Schreier, Bloomberg News

(Bloomberg) -- Unity Technologies Inc. canceled a planned town hall and closed two offices Thursday after receiving what it said was a credible death threat in the wake of a controversial pricing decision earlier this week.
The company was “made aware of a potential threat to some of our offices" and has "taken immediate and proactive measures to ensure the safety of our employees,” a spokesperson said in a statement. Unity is closing offices that could be potential targets on Thursday and Friday, and is “fully cooperating with law enforcement.”
Unity, the maker of tools and technology for video games, set off a firestorm on Sept. 12 by announcing it will begin charging developers a new fee for games made using its software, called the Unity Engine. Beginning Jan. 1, makers of Unity games will have to pay per user installation after a certain threshold is reached.
Some video-game makers accused Unity of violating its own terms of service and lamented that the new charges could threaten their livelihoods. Many game studios put out harshly worded statements urging the technology company to reconsider.
Unity Chief Executive Officer John Riccitiello was set to talk to staff Thursday morning but instead said the meeting would be canceled as a precaution. Offices in Austin, Texas, and San Francisco were closed.
(Updates with company comment in second paragraph.)
 

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