Game News Torment Kickstarter Update #55: Brief Update, Nathan Long Novella Released

[Lurker King]

Have you played it? If yes why do I need to elaborate? Quest and area design is pathetic (probably because of the gulf between who designed and who implemented), maps are huge for no reason and filled with copy-pasted encounters (probably because of the early complaints about railroaded area design). Character system is pure shit with redundant stats and assorted bad design like skill points scaling from one stat, quite evidently designed in less than 20 hours by people just willing to replicate typical RPG mechanics. Combat requires no tactics, it's just the same shit always. Add to that a disgrace of an UI that still needed 50 iterations to get there (and got worse with the DC despite claims that console port would not affect PC) horrible camera and muddy 3D graphics that manage to be worse than infinitely better games made by amateur teams of 1-5 people. Wasteland 2 looks and plays like russian shovelware from 2005.

There's nothing worse than WL2 there. Unless you're that type of codexer that thinks top down perspective (NOT FUCKING ISOMETRIC) projection and turn-based combat makes anything great.

So, you are saying that if I dig in that list with seventy games, I will not find any game with bad graphics, empty maps, copy-pasted encounters, bad UI, broken character system, superficial combat system, and stupid quests? This sounds like a summary of 90% of the cRPGs out there. In fact, you will probably find some games who are worse than W2 in some of these aspects. Let’s talk about the strengths of the game you forgot to mention like the reactivity, the widespread skill and stat checks, and huge amount of details hidden behind different playthroughs. Not everyone even attempt to implement these things nowadays, but they are like important. Just like you, I’m disappointed with the game because my expectations were high. But to say that is the worse cRPG ever? Give me a fucking break.

 

[Excidium II]

I said it's the worst I've ever played.

Let’s talk about the strengths of the game you forgot to mention like the reactivity, the widespread skill and stat checks

For fuck's sake. The skill and stat checks are all meaningless. It's mostly just a gateway for loot you don't need. The reactivity is also a joke, just flavour or binary branching. The way InXile did was just to fill a checklist of what a 'classic' CRPG needs, not much thought beyond that.

2funny to see an AoD fan praising WL2 stat checks and reactivity, it's like those UT/Q3 people praising D44M MP.

 

[FeelTheRads]

The reactivity is also a joke

Dude, what, I bet it has ending slides. They are like important. Like you played a totally different game.

 

[Excidium II]

Save Ralphy or not?????????

 

[prodigydancer]

Quest and area design is pathetic

What exactly is wrong with them? Quest design is largely a matter of taste but when you deem it "pathetic" you need to explain why. There are no "kill/gather X of Y" in WL2 at all. You get maybe a few optional fedexes but mostly it's C&C-based stuff. Crit path in particular is all about C&C.

maps are huge

And that's a shortcoming now?

copy-pasted encounters

Not true. Of course, you can stick this label to any game unless it only has carefully hand-crafted encounters like TToN but the density of actual copy-paste in WL2 is below average. PoE, D:OS and the Shadowrun Series are all worse in this regard.

Character system is pure shit with redundant stats and assorted bad design like skill points scaling from one stat

Which stats you think are redundant and why? As for Int-based skillpoints gain - this applies to at least half of classic RPGs. The concept may be slightly outdated, I give you that, but inXile didn't invent it. And it's a p. strange thing to be outraged about.

Combat requires no tactics, it's just the same shit always.

I find it really hard to believe that you can complete AZ on SJ facerolling over your keyboard so "no tactics" is an exaggeration. "Same shit" applies to many games to some degree but usage of cover is p. meaningful in WL2 so, for example, in D:OS combat felt less tactical to me.

Add to that a disgrace of an UI that still needed 50 iterations to get there (and got worse with the DC despite claims that console port would not affect PC)

The UI was perfectly serviceable in vanilla. Much worse in DC - here I agree - but still far from a disaster. I've seen worse.

horrible camera and muddy 3D graphics that manage to be worse than infinitely better games made by amateur teams of 1-5 people. Wasteland 2 looks and plays like russian shovelware from 2005.

I consider myself a graphics whore yet WL2 looked good enough to me. As for camera, again, I've seen much worse (off the top of my head: in DA:I).

There's nothing worse than WL2 there.

O'rly? You say that utter trash like DA:I or SCL is actually better? ROFL.

 

[Excidium II]

Congratulations on liking shit. I hope you don't expect me to waste time arguing over garbage like WL2, you asked why and I told you.

O'rly? You say that utter trash like DA:I or SCL is actually better? ROFL.

You are really fucking retarded. Have you actually seen the list? Those games weren't even out when it was made.

 

[prodigydancer]

Have you actually seen the list?

Ah, it was about the best CRPGs list. I didn't pay attention, sorry.

As for "liking shit" - you still haven't explained how it's shit. Your post is large but it still lacks substance. WL2 isn't very innovative but parts it consists of aren't worse than parts most CRPGs consist of. So my opinion is that inXile did a good job - simply because I had fun. WL2 has issues, sure, but they're nothing you won't find in other games. E.g. copy-paste is (almost) unavoidable but there were games (Drakensang, NWN2 OC) where it was much more noticeable and annoying.

 

[Roguey]

Save Ralphy or not?????????

There are quite a few outcomes for Ralphy.

I ended up choosing an obnoxious one when I let his father die because I didn't want to sink points into talking skills at that point.

 

[Excidium II]

None of which really is more than a handful of script lines. Reactivity standards have never been lower.

 

[Manmower]

Fuck the shallow implementation of C&C when the engine is a taxing piece of garbage, the texture look like they were painted by a sclerotic Russian pig farmer, and the system design is reminiscent of wiping your ass with a cactus. Fargo can go fuck himself, the retard not only sunk Interplay, he hasn't put out a good game since that shitty new company of his opened its doors.

 

[Lurker King]

The skill and stat checks are all meaningless. It's mostly just a gateway for loot you don't need. The reactivity is also a joke, just flavour or binary branching. The way InXile did was just to fill a checklist of what a 'classic' CRPG needs, not much thought beyond that.

My point is that even if W2 was rushed designed by a superficial and inconsistent checklist approach, InXile deserve a pat on the back for ticking some of the right boxes (stat and skill checks, C&C, etc.) that are ignored by most developers. Yes, the game is nothing in comparison to FO or AoD, and I won’t be recommending it to anyone, but at least they tried to do some things right. On the other hand, they deserve all the heat and criticism for their other choices (trash mobs, repetitive and boring use of skills, etc.).

Fuck the shallow implementation of C&C when the engine is a taxing piece of garbage, the texture look like they were painted by a sclerotic Russian pig farmer, and the system design is reminiscent of wiping your ass with a cactus. Fargo can go fuck himself, the retard not only sunk Interplay, he hasn't put out a good game since that shitty new company of his opened its doors.

 

[Excidium II]

Their final test is Tworment. It's mostly a different team though, so not that much of a proof of competence.

 

[Manmower]

I try.

Their final test is Tworment.

So you're telling me a company that couldn't produce the equivalent of a Fallout 2 even with 20 years of 'knowledge' and modern-day tools is somehow gonna replicate a cult masterpiece with ambient, atmosphere, theme, setting, and characterization that's arguably the best the entire PC industry has even seen.

 

[Manmower]

it still need a pat on the back for ticking some of the right boxes (stat and skill checks, C&C, etc.) that are ignored by most developers

So we should support devs for cargo-culting the beloved games of our youth? Personally, I'd rather see CRPGs put to rest, than watch fucks like Fargo fondling the genre's mutilated, zombified corpse.

 

[Roguey]

None of which really is more than a handful of script lines. Reactivity standards have never been lower.

The reactivity and C&C in the LA hubs are excellent. It's the party-based Fallout everyone wanted.

 

[Manmower]

The reactivity and C&C in the LA hubs are excellent. It's the party-based Fallout everyone wanted.

Did we play the same game? I ain't even trolling man. Did they do a huge content patch, or what?

 

[Excidium II]

None of which really is more than a handful of script lines. Reactivity standards have never been lower.

The reactivity and C&C in the LA hubs are excellent. It's the party-based Fallout everyone wanted.

You just have to go through 30 hours of Arizona to get to the promised land. No thanks, and I doubt it is any good.

The skill and stat checks are all meaningless. It's mostly just a gateway for loot you don't need. The reactivity is also a joke, just flavour or binary branching. The way InXile did was just to fill a checklist of what a 'classic' CRPG needs, not much thought beyond that.

My point is that even if W2 was rushed designed by a superficial and inconsistent checklist approach, InXile deserve a pat on the back for ticking some of the right boxes (stat and skill checks, C&C, etc.) that are ignored by most developers.

They don't deserve anything for what they presented. It's nothing. They did just what they had to do to show they did it. Comparing variables does not impress me.

 

[Manmower]

They don't deserve anything for what they presented.

Ergo, Fargo the conman.

 

[Roguey]

Did we play the same game? I ain't even trolling man. Did they do a huge content patch, or what?

I played a fully patched Wasteland 2: Original Cut.

 

[Manmower]

Original Cut

The fuck is that, like some kind of anti-director's-cut? I'm confused.

 

[Lurker King]

The reactivity and C&C in the LA hubs are excellent. It's the party-based Fallout everyone wanted.

The problem is that by that time everyone already spent 40 hours crossing huge empty maps with HP bloated trash mobs, disarming alarms and mines, unlocking safes with random trinckets, listening to bad voice acting, following an idiotic main quest and appreciating the ugly graphics. When they reach LA, most players are either burnout, or infuriated by the bad things, or both. You can’t compare this with FO & FO2, even with the eventual bits of good writing and hidden content.

 

[Roguey]

The fuck is that, like some kind of anti-director's-cut? I'm confused.

The original release.

 

[Manmower]

Circle-jerking aside, can someone explain to my why Fargo and his gaggle of shitstains thought they could come up with better design than in Fallout 2? Why didn't they just make a carbon copy of that game? I think the majority of WL2's detractors would've forgiven the shit-stained graphics and crappy engine if the game was, you know, FUN! Why reinvent the wheel? Are they so creatively bankrupt they can't come up with a normal storyline and fit it into a FO2-type game? That shit came out years ago, and it's STILL better by an order of magnitude than Fargo's excreted diarrhea.

EDIT: And that's saying nothing of his original pitch hinting heavily at a FO2-type experience.

 

[Excidium II]

I don't think they really tried to make a game different from Fallout 2 conciously. Wasteland is just a sad little design accident. Some people wrote documents, some people sat down and implemented those things.

 

[Lurker King]

They don't deserve anything for what they presented. It's nothing. They did just what they had to do to show they did it. Comparing variables does not impress me.

I know that. I’m just using this opportunity to promote my storyfag agenda in cRPGs.