Game News THQ Nordic want to remake Gothic, playable teaser released to owners of previous Piranha Bytes games

[toro]

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldofgothic/comments/ebv4yf/thq_nordic_response_to_some_of_the_feedback/

https://grynieznane.pl/2019/12/15/t...Q9J1YqXSHnC2FOyP6CLydMz0FyfsyPOGuAHj90cTLgHTM

Facebook suggested me an article about THQ Nordic response to how Playable Teaser was received. Here's the full article (in Polish), unfortunately no sources were listed, but they seem to be pretty confident about what they are talking about. For those of you who don't know Polish, here are the major things:

1. It's still uncertain, whether the projet will be finished, but THQ plans on creating another prototype, acknowledging all the feedback they got. Reception of that one will probably pivot on their commitment to full game.
   
   
2. Combat system will be changed, as it was the most criticized thing.
   
   
3. Graphics will be changed, many people commented that it's too bright and colorful.
   
   
4. Scene with Bullit hitting Nameless Hero in the beginning will be back. Entire beginning will be rebuilt accordingly, no snappers, etc.
   
   
5. No collaboration with Piranha Bytes will be formed. They are currently busy with their own project and the only remaining member from the team working on original Gothic is Björn Pankratz.
   
   
6. It is possible that original music will come back. THQ has rights to it and Kai Rosenkranz isn't currently signed with any gaming company, so there shouldn't be any problem if there came to agreement between them. On a personal note - I'd love it so much. Also Kai seems to like his old Gothic work, so I think the ball is on THQ's side.
   
   
7. German version will probably have some recurring voice actors, but not all of them (understandable, some years have passed). As for other language version it'll probably come to local publishers.

If all of this is true (once again, no sources are given in the article), I'm soo hyped for the remake.

potato squad please confirm

edit:

We have not confirmed point 2-3-4 in this article, rest is accurate tho, it is from our FAQ on the official discord.

 

[Raghar]

Wait is THQ the same company that bought Warhorse? Why would they want to do Gothic I remake?

 

[Old One]

THQ reviewed Gothic 1 and realized it needed to be remade as it had no pirates.

 

[Murk]

THQ reviewed Gothic 1 and realized it needed to be remade as it had no pirates.

There was the lighthouse with the tunnels underneath that led to the shipwreck, and it was full of skeletons.

Pirates confirmed.

 

[Keppo]

remove localized VA altogether and force the German VA across all regions

Agreed.

Poland has 10/10 Gothic VO so no.

 

[Whiny-Butthurt-Liberal]

Fucking finally.

Now here's to hoping they release it on Nintendo Switch.

 

[JDR13]

Fucking finally.

Now here's to hoping they release it on Nintendo Switch.

The PlayStation Vita release has already been confirmed.

 

[harhar!]

And considering how sequels handled female NPCs, the state of Gothic 1 is not a coincidence. The disproportion of women in population (about 20:1) of Gothic 2 and 3 is laughable.

You know what the real social justice travesty in Gothic 3 is? There is not a single black slave! When asked about this PB said that it would not be PC to implement black slaves.

 

[Smejki]

It was PC to implement ugly-ass character models of slaves though I guess.

Also aren't Gorn and Saturas the only black people in the entire Gothic 3? I can't really remember.
How does this world work?!

 

[Wunderbar]

Smejki Thorus was black too

 

[Gromlintroid]

We will only start full production if the community demands a Gothic Remake

Crisis averted, because no-one is going to demand one after playing this thing.

 

[titus]

This will be shit.

 

[Crescent Hawk]

Rise of Eurojank.

Being made in spain? Can it be by the guys that did Severance pretty please?

 

[Murk]

It was PC to implement ugly-ass character models of slaves though I guess.

Also aren't Gorn and Saturas the only black people in the entire Gothic 3? I can't really remember.
How does this world work?!

Good point bro, if only they took a lesson from Kingdom Come: Deliverance to make sure their game has good representation.

Spoiler

So you want to poke other people who made their game over a decade ago for the very (unfair) shit your company got blasted for?

 

[Smejki]

It was PC to implement ugly-ass character models of slaves though I guess.

Also aren't Gorn and Saturas the only black people in the entire Gothic 3? I can't really remember.
How does this world work?!

Good point bro, if only they took a lesson from Kingdom Come: Deliverance to make sure their game has good representation.

Spoiler

So you want to poke other people who made their game over a decade ago for the very (unfair) shit your company got blasted for?

non sequitur much?

 

[Murk]

It was PC to implement ugly-ass character models of slaves though I guess.

Also aren't Gorn and Saturas the only black people in the entire Gothic 3? I can't really remember.
How does this world work?!

Good point bro, if only they took a lesson from Kingdom Come: Deliverance to make sure their game has good representation.

Spoiler

So you want to poke other people who made their game over a decade ago for the very (unfair) shit your company got blasted for?

non sequitur much?

I wasn't a part of some long argument; I saw a BS comment about a game series I like and I responded to it. This is a gaming forum, we talk shit, you know how this works.

Call it non-sequitar if you want, but it seems fitting to me; I defended your game at that time from nonsensical complaints and I'll defend PB's games from such nonsensical complaints too.

 

[Bruma Hobo]

Gothic is, let's face it, a very generic fantasy setting with unremarkable plot.

I don't know if I agree with this. The setting of the prisoner valley with the different camps and the 'might makes right' ethos hasn't really been replicated by any other game, even Piranha Byte's own followups. The goal of the whole game mainly being a prison escape is also pretty unusual, although the demon hunting endgame is boilerplate.

Gothic 1 was very high concept for it's time, let alone today, and a proper remake could liven up the stale copy-pasta content design that afflicts modern RPGs.

RPGs about being thrown into a penal colony with its inhabitants trying to organize themselves without help from the outside world, and about the main characters trying to escape, were not that rare: Ultima Underworld, the Exile games, and the beginning of Dragon Wars were already about that. And the whole might makes right thing was already successfully explored in Fallout, which had an obvious influence in Gothic.

As much as I like Gothic, I don't think it was that groundbreaking, rather than a well executed generic setting with a twist.

 

[Metro]

We have not confirmed point 2-3-4 in this article, rest is accurate tho, it is from our FAQ on the official discord.

Lol, 2-3-4 are the MAJOR issues.

 

[MurkyShadow]

Seeing the success of games like Goat Simulator or Surgeon Simulator, if they deem a remake
is not wanted, they could always use the foundation to create The Ultimate Lens Flare Simulator.

 

[Smejki]

It was PC to implement ugly-ass character models of slaves though I guess.

Also aren't Gorn and Saturas the only black people in the entire Gothic 3? I can't really remember.
How does this world work?!

Good point bro, if only they took a lesson from Kingdom Come: Deliverance to make sure their game has good representation.

Spoiler

So you want to poke other people who made their game over a decade ago for the very (unfair) shit your company got blasted for?

non sequitur much?

I wasn't a part of some long argument; I saw a BS comment about a game series I like and I responded to it. This is a gaming forum, we talk shit, you know how this works.

Call it non-sequitar if you want, but it seems fitting to me; I defended your game at that time from nonsensical complaints and I'll defend PB's games from such nonsensical complaints too.

Congratulations. You've come to the defense of someone who is not under attack. Just under simple scrutiny.

I've never advocated for diversity, representation or social justice in this here thread. It was you oversensitive snowflakes who hysterically jumped to this conclusion and started throwing these terms around like automatons in your childish temper tantrums.

I've always talked about proper worldbuilding and immersion.

When you decide that women exist in your fantasy world and then decide to have 5 of them (against 200 men) you better fucking explain and explore that thing.
Gothic 1 kinda explains it. But it doesn't give a single fuck about the situation, there is zero exploration of that interesting phenomenon. I admit my messaging wasn't elegant and clear in this case. I also misremembered some details.
Gothic 2 is sort of better but still weirdly skewed and provides no explanations.
Gothic 3 drops the ball completely.
(I remember coming into a Nordmar village, there's an armed female guard at the entrance. "She's not a hooker, cool." I said. And then I discovered she's the only woman around and I was like "Hey what the fuck?". It would be actually better to not have any women anywhere than to draw attention to such case of critical underdevelopment of your world.)

When you decide that black people exist in your fantasy world, and then there are only 3 of them in the entire large 3-realm world, then you better fucking explain and explore it. If you don't, it's better to not have them at all.
In Gothic 1 it doesn't really matter because all people came into the colony from the outside world. You can assume they came in from the mainland.
In Gothic 2 you are all still stranded on the same small island far from the continental kingdom(s).
In Gothic 3... do I really have to continue?
That's why I don't bitch about the lack of Asians, LGBTQÖŘŽŠŮ+-/%, or disabled.
(Although Gothic 3 with disabled cripples produced by the war would be welcome. Maybe tonally inappropriate but it certainly wouldn't break immersion.)

The fact that you compare my mild criticism of Gothic (games I love and which heavily inspired KCD) and my advocacy for doing-your-fucking-game-designer-job-properly to the dummies who demanded POCs in KCD just for the sake of diversity alone should offend me but I really just pity your inability to distinguish the two situations.

BTW there are black people in the world of KCD. They live in Africa, Spain, Portugal and in smaller numbers in England, France, Italy and Ottoman Empire. They don't live in rural Bohemia near fucking Sasau. Once in a blue moon, one might stop by in Prague, the capital (which is not in the game).
BTW2: there's a discrepancy between numbers of men and women in the civil population of KCD too. The ratio is ca. 426:1270 and I'm pretty fucking bummed about it. Because muh dyevurziteeee? No. Because reality doesn't work this way and we are meant to imitate reality. Did people notice? That doesn't matter to me.

And this is my final word on this. Label me a libtard SJW whiteknight cuck if you wish, I don't care.

 

[Lord of Riva]

But what you say is simply not true Smejki.

You brought up criticism foward and that is your reaction when you get "mild" criticism back, but that should be expected in a forum shouldn't it?

First of all if you make a statement like this you would put something forwards that explains why representation would matter both in general and regarding immersion.
You suggest that there is a specific amount of necessary concessions to make worldbuilding "proper" but you fail to tell how much is necessary. This should be self-explanatory as there is no such thing as proper worldbuilding through representation and that also means that you argument is meaningless.

G1 gives an explanation and now it is the fact that it does not "explore" it enough (never mind that "enough" is not defined) even though that isn't the focus of the game and the location, clothes of the women and the intro give a very clear picture on what is going on there, including some conversation both with men and the Women.

G2 is "sort" of better why again? Because there are women in it but the correct amount isn't achieved? What does this even mean?

G3 drops the ball completely in every regard and I am not going to defend it, not that the "mild" criticism you supposedly have would need defending, since nothing you have said is in any way a worthwhile argument in the first place.

Now we get to the "racism", it is clear to me that you either do not really know the games you are talking about or , what I believe to be the case, you just want to make an argument that shows how well educated you are on the so "very important" social issues of our times.

in G1 and G2 there are quite a few darker skinned characters there aren't only 3. you would know that if you actually liked the games. Diego, Gorn, Thorus, Cor Angar (which accidentally makes 2 Blacks and 1 darker skinned part of the 4 "friends" which are integral to the story of 1 and 2 ) and some nameless NPCs (in the swamp camp mosttly) have very dark skin. Additionally a lot of the normal NPC have non-light skin and there is a reason for that as well.

Gothic was made in Germany and compared to the former colonial superpowers the amount of people with African origins we have here is pretty low. what we have though is a big amount of middle eastern folks that immigrated into our country, the most prolific being the Turks.

Not only does the Design and the amount of different skin colors show that PB was inherently trying to be diverse, it should also show that nobody *ever* gave a shit about that "diversity" in the first place. It is their world and it is consistent like that this should dispel any reason to say PB or the people liking the game are racist.

But I guess it is great to look back with the increasingly incessant demands of those who think that if only these things changed "justice" would prevail.

And it is simply sad that the perception of those who played the games doesn't matter to you, especially as you are a developer, this not only shows how you look upon those who actually engage with something but worse it shows that there is no reason for a specific ratio in the first place since you know people did not realise it but you simply don't care.

 

[Murk]

Smejki I rated 'friendly' because my goal isn't to blast you as a libtard snowflake etc., and I don't care that you called me a snowflake either.

Your criticisms are based on a retroactive lense that are either innacurate (as Riva points out) or on a game that was rushed (G3) and had so many problems in it that the quantity of female NPCs didn't matter in the context of how much the combat, quest-lines, and character system were buggered to hell and back (the instruction manual even shipped with entries for features that never made it in game -- like the jumping attack; or outright was wrong about skills (like how the melee/bow skills didn't do anything other than serve as a requirement to equip gear)).

Here the contrast in importance between gameplay issues and "the ratio of female to male is not to my liking" is just obtuse, and nevermind that maybe your opinion on the matter isn't a benchmark that the game(s) missed.

I compare your criticism to the bullshit KCD got because both, regardless of framing or intention, are unjust in how they scrutinize the game and it just so happens to be on the very same topics. You can generate a million reasons for why it's not a proper comparison, but then neither are your criticisms of the quantity of women in G2 (there were plenty, they didn't fight but then that's kind of how that setting works) or the palettes for skin color used in G1 (the setting is in Khorinis, there are some people from the other regions of the world but obviously not very many. And why would there be? If this is generic medieval europe + orcs, why would there be many people with black skin?).

But I'll level with you, because the way you posted came off very "I want identity politics". Perhaps that was my fault for interpreting it that way.

Maybe I should have given you the benefit of the doubt -- maybe you just want a more believable and balanced world to help with verisimilitude and immersion. Fine, though I think this is again a retroactive criticism on a game that did it leagues better than the overwhelming majority of games were capable of at that time (and even now). Saying "the game should be even better" just isn't how it works, and you know that better than most I assume. It's just that you picked the specific SJW topics so you'll have to forgive me for assuming those are the things you specifically cared about.

 

[Smejki]

It's just that you picked the specific SJW topics so you'll have to forgive me for assuming those are the things you specifically cared about.

Well, that's the thing. I haven't picked the topic. I wrote a whole long review of the remake where there's one tiny unimportant mention of one of my minor gripes with the series (it even received last listing). And as one could easily predict these days it triggered someone. No, we don't need to argue about the soul and nature of Gothic or which parts of its design philosophy are truly essential. I mentioned wahmen and that's what we need to generate a lot of pointless spam about.
Simply Codex

etroactive criticism on a game that did it leagues better than the overwhelming majority of games were capable of at that time

Agreed. But this thread is about the remake and how to ideally make it better than the original

a game that was rushed (G3)

That's an interesting point to mention. I also held this view back in the day when I anticipated the arrival of Oblivion and G3 and wondered which would turn out better (OUCH!). Knowing now how games are made I stopped believing it.
I mean, sure, the game was rushed to release. It was so rushed they even left in not just debug dev tools but also their hotkeyes ffs which means they worked on it til he last second.
BUT. You don't accidentally this amount of quests, VO, citylife scripts. You don't create a bunch of incredibly ugly character models and hope to remake/fix them in the final push. Same goes for animations.
The whole project has gross mismanagement and incompetence written all over it.
To realize it you only need to honestly answer the question "What would get better with 2 more years of development?"
- less buggy content
- more content and assets (probably, but not better content)
- more stable and optimized tech
- slightly more polished combat
- better balanced in terms of economy and RPG system, maybe
- maybe better UI
- less choppy sound engine
And that's about it. The game would still be incredibly bad and poorly conceived. Almost the entire design premise is wrong.

 

[Murk]

That's an interesting point to mention. I also held this view back in the day when I anticipated the arrival of Oblivion and G3 and wondered which would turn out better (OUCH!). Knowing now how games are made I stopped believing it.
I mean, sure, the game was rushed to release. It was so rushed they even left in not just debug dev tools but also their hotkeyes ffs which means they worked on it til he last second.
BUT. You don't accidentally this amount of quests, VO, citylife scripts. You don't create a bunch of incredibly ugly character models and hope to remake/fix them in the final push. Same goes for animations.
The whole project has gross mismanagement and incompetence written all over it.
To realize it you only need to honestly answer the question "What would get better with 2 more years of development?"
- less buggy content
- more content and assets (probably, but not better content)
- more stable and optimized tech
- slightly more polished combat
- better balanced in terms of economy and RPG system, maybe
- maybe better UI
- less choppy sound engine
And that's about it. The game would still be incredibly bad and poorly conceived. Almost the entire design premise is wrong.

I have no inside knowledge, but a part of me always assumed that the game was being worked on in parallel to try to get as much as possible to look "right" at release. For example, the physical game world is very well fleshed out with a lot of attention to detail (in fact, the way some houses are stocked with decorative stuff is better than their later games even, Risen(s) or Elex) and the placement of items for ad-hoc quests, like the statues or scrolls in the ruins in Varant where you just get XP once collecting them all but with 0 prompting that they even exist or what they would be. To me this screams "we planned to add more but since this was done already, we left it in instead of cutting it out because we didn't have NPC dialog that says 'gather the statues'."

I agree that there was no shortage of incompetence or poor decision making that led to it and that the game was very much barely a beta that got released. However, seeing what PB did in later games (and even the much maligned Risen 2 and probably Risen 3) I think they would have produced something of much higher quality than what we got, even if only to finish the half-implemented features/content. Everyone mentioned how Risen 1 was basically Gothic 2 HD, but really there was a ton of legitimate improvement and growth shown in there -- not the least of which were much better written dialog, characters, and an actually believable dynamic of the fight between the Don's men and the Inquisition -- all of which was really sealed with stellar voice acting from JR Davis and Serkis. To me there was maturity as a developer there that wasn't present before -- never mind all the technical, mechanical, and QOL/UI improvements either.

For what it's worth, I think we got a glimpse of Gothic 3 _could have_ been with Elex. To me the parallels there are much stronger than between the Risen games or Elex (although Risen 2 had many of the features that Elex had [perhaps Risen 3 did too, but haven't played that yet]). You have the similar split of game world areas with major factions, but they realized from their mistake regarding scope and scaled it back to emphasize a few high density locations instead of constantly spread towns with repetitive and uninspired quests.

But they kept the world design similar, where there are a metric ton of ruins/chests/little environmental stories (audio logs, journals, just seeing corpses in a building with a big predator nearby).

So my assumption is that if they had another year, Gothic 3 would have looked something akin to a medieval Elex in terms of world/story/interaction, but perhaps with very different systems/mechanics.

EDIT: added some clarification and a piece that got cut out while editing. Fitting issue to have in a post about Gothic 3, lel.

 

[Ismaul]

As much as I like Gothic, I don't think it was that groundbreaking

Nigga what?

What RPG before that time has been built with such extensive daily cycles for every character? What RPG has you gain better animations as you train your skills? What RPG has a universal 3-step warning system for when you do something others don't want, such as trespassing, sneaking, unsheating your weapon, and entering a creature's territory? What RPG has non-lethal combat and gameplay and scenarios tied to it, such as duels, beat downs, teaching "lessons", measuring dicks, etc.?

The whole game is built on the idea of simulating a coherent and living world in its every detail. The world is handcrafted in such a way that 10 years after playing it once I still know where I am just by the geography; every place is different and recognizable. So not only does Gothic have innovative features, some which haven't been done better yet, but it ties it all together coherently like no other. Things just make sense: want to learn something? Find a teacher, and he'll actually explain something to you. Kill wildlife? Get body parts not random items and change.

Man I could go on.