Thief fan missions and campaigns

[JarlFrank]

Random_Taffer how the taff did the rogue get his vase into THIS place?

As someone with a hardon for ancient mesopotamia, I really like the Babylonian and Assyrian textures in there. Lovely stuff.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Random_Taffer how the taff did the rogue get his vase into THIS place?

Read his journal. You can duplicate his method.

I like the writing of the readables but I'm 100% sure Unkillable Cat is going to criticize them for audiolog syndrome.

While it's present, it's not a bother for me in this campaign. I'm more bothered by the writing in the voice-over sessions, especially the extended expositions you're about to be hammered with.

 

[JarlFrank]

Yeah I got the crayman mask. That thing is hilarious. I knocked out all the craymen by using it strategically. You can be chased by 5 craymen who all want to chop your head off, but once you use the mask they all turn around and lose interest in you. I love it! :D

But, one thing:
Random_Taffer, I will be very grateful to you if you never, ever use the moving fly swarms ever again, in any FM ever.

 

[Random_Taffer]

Just out of curiosity, where is the audiolog? Cypress's journal maybe? I tried to minimize it.

 

[JarlFrank]

I didn't mind any of the texts, I think the writing is pretty solid. But I thought Unkillable Cat would consider the swamp-taffer's journal (the one about the vase) as a little audiolog-y.

 

[Random_Taffer]

Oh yes! You're right, it is. I forgot about that one.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Oh yes! You're right, it is. I forgot about that one.

It's not a bother because the circumstances provide an exception: The author is all alone in a swamp. Keeping a journal counts somewhat as talking to someone* so he's just doing it to ward off the boredom. (The fact that he's eyeing the witch for close intimacy also helps hammer in this fact.)

The writing in the texts in general is pretty good. Those three books one can find about Eldin are clearly trying to steer clear of Audiolog syndrome, and they pull it off.

A quick look at Mission 4 gives me the "rough start" vibe: It seems I'll have to grit my teeth through the first part of it in order to enjoy the rest.

*I read somewhere many years ago that people will go batshit insane within 79 days if they don't have someone to talk to. Our own subconscious seems to know this, which is why we find people talking to animals, plants and other anthropomorphic entities (Winston, for example).

 

[Random_Taffer]

Yes, sorry. I knew you wouldn't like the conversations. Don't worry, the first part is the only part.

 

[Max_b5]

Halfway into the second mission and HOLY is this mission good. For those who still miss some loot: The Ornate Dagger can be retrieved after being used.

Where's the secret in Nilbog, though?

 

[Random_Taffer]

Think high for both.

 

[Max_b5]

Aaaaaaand found them both. Thanks for the quick response, this mission is awesome!

Still missing one secret. Have the two in Nilbog, two in the temple and the jar of bugs one.

 

[Random_Taffer]

Glimmer Grove. Think high.

 

[Yandros]

The first part of mission 4 (not just the opening conversation... the forced ghosting part) was designed to be short and simple. It's quite possible to be done with it and have your gear back within 5 minutes.

 

[JarlFrank]

The Ornate Dagger can be retrieved after being used.

I found that to be really clever. I caught myself smiling when I picked it back up and it became loot. Very cute attention to detail.

What I wonder is: if you never use the dagger, and therefore it never becomes loot, will the total loot amount in the finish screen be lower?

 

[JarlFrank]

Random_Taffer do I have to kill all the crays in the temple in order to check off the "eliminate the enemies" optional goal, or is it ok if I just knock them all out? Cause I prefer going non-lethal whenever I can, and I knocked out all the craymen in there even before I received the goal. Theoretically, it should have ticked off as soon as I recieved it, shouldn't it?

 

[Unkillable Cat]

You have to kill them.

(I chucked them all into the lava stream after I had knocked them out.)

There's more to this objective than that, but the objective is ticked off once ALL hostile critters in the temple are gone.

 

[Darth Slaughter]

question about the first mission, just out of curiosity: has anyone found the secret? I gave up and i'm in the middle of the 2nd mission, but I hate leaving things behind...

 

[Unkillable Cat]

From what I hear...

Spoiler

It has something to do with the fireplace in a mansion, probably the one with the sleeping couple in the bed.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

I've had several attempts at Mission 4 by now. All failures.

This is what I'm faced with:

# 4 minutes of forced exposition at the start.
# A timed objective.
# A forced ghosting objective.
# With no equipment whatsoever.
# In a house with narrow corridors.
# Well-lit corridors at that.
# Corridors lined with rugs but marble underneath them, so even the slightest misstep will be heard by EVERYONE.
# Ceiling arches conveniently placed so that it's impossible to jump from rug to rug.
# And a patrolling guard in EVERY corridor.
# And the grand kicker of them all: A "feature" where you go blind for 10 seconds at 50 second intervals.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to do this without doing what is known as "throwing corpses at the problem until solved", that is making the player fail over and over again while slowly learning the layout of the house, then trying to pull all of this off while half-blinded by the game.

This is stupid and lazy game design. I honestly don't know what made you think people would appreciate this, beyond the Russians with their inflated need for challenges. I've played and completed harder FMs than this, but I see no reason why I should bother to try with this one. I don't care what lies beyond, I'm done here and now.

Campaign rating: 5/10. Mission 2 is great and well worth playing, the other 3 are not. Whether Mission 2 justifies a 870 Mb download I'll leave up to others to decide.

 

[JarlFrank]

From what I hear...

Spoiler

It has something to do with the fireplace in a mansion, probably the one with the sleeping couple in the bed.

Not exactly.

Spoiler

It's in the other room with a fireplace. Same building, though. Go to the balcony accessed from the tower, and go into the other door. The fireplace in that room has a tiny switch hidden to the right of the fireplace.

 

[Random_Taffer]

Ah well. Thanks for trying anyway. I disagree, it was actually a ton of work. All the testers had no problems with it and didn't need to die over and over. I'm not sure what else to say. The place is actually really small and you can get to your objective relatively easily.

I guess if you ever decide to give it another shot, maybe try a lower difficulty level the first time.

 

[JarlFrank]

So I gathered all the bugs and put the jar where it belongs.

...

WHAT

THE

TAFF

 

[skacky]

I didn't have much trouble with the start of mission 4 myself, though I'm not a huge fan of that little mechanic.

 

[Tannar]

Not every mission is going to be liked by every player. That's just fact. And I respect everyone's preferences in this regard. But I feel compelled to respond to a few things.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to do this without doing what is known as "throwing corpses at the problem until solved", that is making the player fail over and over again while slowly learning the layout of the house, then trying to pull all of this off while half-blinded by the game.

In fact, it is not "impossible" to do this without "throwing corpses". It is just difficult to do so. But of all your complaints, I find this one the most valid in that I can understand the potential for frustration inherent in this approach. It takes a skilled, or at least patient, player to get through this first section without being heard or spotted, and I am quite certain that many players needed to reload at least once. However, whether this is "stupid and lazy game design" is merely an opinion. I found it to be quite an enjoyable challenge, and would call it excellent game design. So much for opinion.

This is stupid and lazy game design. I honestly don't know what made you think people would appreciate this, beyond the Russians with their inflated need for challenges. I've played and completed harder FMs than this, but I see no reason why I should bother to try with this one. I don't care what lies beyond, I'm done here and now.

Again, I understand your frustration, but by quitting early you're selling the mission short and depriving yourself of some fun gameplay. At the very least, there's quite a nice city to explore out there.

Campaign rating: 5/10.

I find it hard to understand how you can rate the entire campaign when you haven't played the entire campaign, but okay, you're free to call it as you see it.

I have to ask, though, what you think Thief is all about? It's just these kinds of complaints that I don't understand about so many Thief players. Whatever happened to the hardcore taffers who actually knew how to play Thief and liked it? Thief is a STEALTH game! In fact, it is THE stealth game. It seems a little unfathomable to me that an accomplished Thief player should whine and moan and quit playing because they need to employ some stealth in Thief. Am I wrong?

 

[skacky]

Unkillable Cat's reasons are perhaps different but I find your last statement a bit dishonest, to be honest (hah). Thief excels at stealth because you are always, in all circumstances, in control of your character. You can always see and always hear, and when you make noise it's your fault. When you have an effect that obscures the screen (you're not in control of your vision anymore) for quite a bit and produces sound that alerts nearby people (also beyond your control) on a timer (beyond your control too, though it happens at regular intervals so you can predict it more or less), you effectively take away what makes Thief's stealth great. If you add to that lit corridor with marble and a few tight patrols, it makes the thing really damn difficult for no real reason. Like I said I didn't have much trouble getting past this bit, but I wouldn't call it good game design. Same reason why LGS didn't decide to obscure half the screen after Garrett's eye had a little accident.