Thief fan missions and campaigns

[Yandros]

Those last two are widely regarded as among the best TG fan missions. I can't help you on your question, though, not sure I ever played it and if I did it was over 12 years ago.

 

[Dev_Anj]

EDIT: Am playing through "Bloodstone Prison". Wow, this one is brilliant. But it seems I have a problem. Some of the undead look to be human, I mean 'flesh-and-blood-and-very-much-alive" human. Is this normal?

So it looks like the author used whatever trick JIS used in F to make zombies behave and look like humans.

I would say no, unless you have some weird textures to change them up.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

So it looks like the author used whatever trick JIS used in F to make zombies behave and look like humans

I think that trick is simpler than that. If I'm right, it's a question of what AI/script is assigned to the critter. Apply the TreeBeast AI/script to a human critter, for example, and you get a human that stomps around with its torso bent forward, much like a charging bull. Ruins of Originia used that to great effect on headless models.

As for Bloodstone Prison - I checked by looking at videos of the FM on YouTube, and something's wrong. Those archers are supposed to be Haunt archers, but instead they're just standard guards. That servant zombie in the kitchen is just a servant who acts like a zombie.

Now the question is whether this is a problem with my installation, or whether TFix screws up the FM.

 

[Max_b5]

So it looks like the author used whatever trick JIS used in F to make zombies behave and look like humans

I think that trick is simpler than that. If I'm right, it's a question of what AI/script is assigned to the critter. Apply the TreeBeast AI/script to a human critter, for example, and you get a human that stomps around with its torso bent forward, much like a charging bull. Ruins of Originia used that to great effect on headless models.

As for Bloodstone Prison - I checked by looking at videos of the FM on YouTube, and something's wrong. Those archers are supposed to be Haunt archers, but instead they're just standard guards. That servant zombie in the kitchen is just a servant who acts like a zombie.

Now the question is whether this is a problem with my installation, or whether TFix screws up the FM.

I think I know what's your problem... you have updated 3d models for TG right? the author of this fm used different textures (undead) for human models but he did not overwrite the .bin and .cal files. If you want to see them as undead, uninstall the enhanced 3d models for AI's (mesh folder) and re-install the FM.

 

[Dev_Anj]

I think that trick is simpler than that. If I'm right, it's a question of what AI/script is assigned to the critter. Apply the TreeBeast AI/script to a human critter, for example, and you get a human that stomps around with its torso bent forward, much like a charging bull. Ruins of Originia used that to great effect on headless models.

I think JIS' trick is more complex than that. See, the zombies behave and look like human beings, down to thier attacks. But when you fight them, they get hurt with holy water arrows, ignore gas arrows and explode like zombies. I've not seen that sort of thing in many fms. Captain of the Guard does something sort of similar, in that all the enemies immediately turn into coins upon death.

 

[Melan]

If you know a little Dromed, these tricks are surprisingly easy to pull off. You can just switch around various properties and metaproperties, and they will follow the game's robust logic. You can have a table that highlights if you approach it and behaves as a chest if you turn it into a Container. You can take a door object, change its textures, resize its physical model, uncheck the box that blocks vision when closed, and add some transparency to create a skylight. You can create a coin that blows up in your face like a mine, AI that walks around randomly in a blue room and pulls levers for in-game effects (like lightning and thunder), a keeper glyph that reads like a book, or turn an ordinary chair or coat-rack into a logical hub regulating mission objectives or AI behaviour (this used to be very helpful in times of resource scarcity). Dromed is an odd beast with even more odd terminology ("fnords", "terrainlikes", etc.), but if you get to know it, it is almost like a programming language that makes you do almost anything you want. Building complex things with it very often feels like being a hacker.

Then you cross the wires somewhere where you aren't supposed to, and it blows up in your face, but that's a different story.

 

[Dev_Anj]

... You can create a coin that blows up in your face like a mine...

:D

That would be nice to see in Kaizo Thief. Speaking of which, I would totally play a campaign that redoes Thief: Gold and Thief 2 mission in a Kaizo style. Doors hitting the players face, floors flying to the roof, AIs having instakill stares ...heh heh heh.

Then you cross the wires somewhere where you aren't supposed to, and it blows up in your face, but that's a different story.

I suppose you would have examples of such stories. Could you share a few?

I remember the Thief 2X team complaining in their developer commentary about how everything was green and blurred when they copied brushes from one map to another, and they mentioned that "You can never master Dromed, it always masters you."

 

[Melan]

No laughing-out-loud stories. More like having the compiler stop abruptly due to hitting some obscure or undocumented limit, or corrupting your map (rare but it has happened), or a terrain brush which has so far behaved normally suddenly becoming a self-contained terrorist unit and causing compiler crashes until you locate and nuke it, or random polygons getting rendered as pitch black, or... you get the idea.

Dromed was never meant for general release, and was only made available due to fan enthusiasm, in an age when publishers were still allowed to listen and respond to fan enthusiasm. It is a dev team's private editing platform, full of quirks, duct-tape fixes and in-jokes. Not something John Carmack would be caught close to.

 

[skacky]

yo, homefry

 

[Unkillable Cat]

The only "laugh-out-loud" Thief glitch I recall was when I opened a set of double doors in some FM, only for the doors to hover forward then clip out of the field and off the map.

I later heard that's one of the more common DromEd glitches.

 

[skacky]

That happens often in Assassins in one of the closets on the ground floor.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Still going through the T1/G files: "A Dark Secret" is a strange one. Garrett must break into a mansion, steal a crystal and a mask, then return the crystal to the Keepers. Even though this mission is dated 2010 in FMSel, its design, architecture and qurkiness suggest something far older. Long, wide hallways and an environment that's on rails for 60% of the mission, then two circles for the remaining 40%. I don't get why I held on to this one, it offers no real challenge except finding the key to the safe at the end.

In related news, I just discovered that there are updated versions available of several missions - "The Tower in the Forest, "Autumn in Lampfire Hills" and last, but not least, "T2X" in a standard FM format. Worth a try, seeing as I haven't played T2X in years.

 

[JarlFrank]

So, finished the Gems of Provenance campaign. Gave it a rating of 9/10, really fucking great missions, not the best I've ever played but amazing nonetheless. They're among those missions that come the closest to Thief Gold's original atmosphere.
While the two new missions in the campaign were really awesome and well-designed, I found them to be sightly disappointing as they were much less surreal and dreamlike than the first two. Also, I think stinkykitty added some new readables to the first two that explain the weird architecture and area design, which somehow substracts from the experience a bit. The dreamlike-ness was one of the original two missions' greatest strengths, everything was kinda weird but you didn't care because, like in a dream, it made sense anyway.

Still, amazing camapaign and the closest to original TG atmosphere I've played. There was one other mission that came even closer, and that was Augustine's Revenge. This campaign could have been released as an official addon and it would have fit perfectly.

So, the new missions:
that water plant thingie: Awesome! It has a lot of variation and so many different paths you can take! I probably took one the author didn't intend because when I approached two guards, their conversation didn't trigger... when I walked past them, it did, so I came from "behind" the trigger. I took Unkillable Cat 's advice and jumped into the toilet for some fun exploration time. Found a hole in the floor after some exploring, it led to the ancient city. But I didn't jump in yet, instead I searched for a way back up and explored the plant for a while. Good undercover mission, it was a bit easy to single out targets and knock everyone out then hide them, though. The cameras in the museum were nasty. Those things are the kind of challenge experienced taffers are looking for, not searching 5 hours for a tiny little switch hidden inside somebody's buttcrack. The ruined city was interesting to explore, too, lots of loot to grab and the puzzle wasn't too hard because I found the secret room near the museum. Great variety, great progression, very well-designed mission.
Mercenaries: Holy shit, stinkykitty put a LOT of guards into that one! I liked the castle, it was pretty well-designed and had some cool hidden places accessible by rope arrows. Didn't mind the keyhunt, although I had to check the location of the air key in the TTLG thread. Found the fire key by accident because I had to extinguish that fire anyway in order to sneak past some guards, heh. Again, a very varied mission with many ways to go through: multiple access points for the castle, and later in the mission you get to explore some trapped keeper vaults. I didn't like these all too much, then again I never like missions with a platforming focus all too much (platforming is for Tomb Raider, not Thief), but it added to the variety of the mission so I didn't mind it.

Variety really is the big theme in stinkykitty's work. Not one of his/her missions is focused on just one type of environment, each of them combines several different themes and environments and it's really effective in creating fun missions. This guy/girl is shaping up to be one of my favourite FM authors. Really looking forward to the next couple of missions.

 

[Dev_Anj]

So, finished the Gems of Provenance campaign. Gave it a rating of 9/10, really fucking great missions, not the best I've ever played but amazing nonetheless. They're among those missions that come the closest to Thief Gold's original atmosphere.
While the two new missions in the campaign were really awesome and well-designed, I found them to be sightly disappointing as they were much less surreal and dreamlike than the first two. Also, I think stinkykitty added some new readables to the first two that explain the weird architecture and area design, which somehow substracts from the experience a bit. The dreamlike-ness was one of the original two missions' greatest strengths, everything was kinda weird but you didn't care because, like in a dream, it made sense anyway.

Personally, I think the greatest strength of this mission pack in general isn't so much that it's weird as in that it uses textures, patterns and surfaces to create areas that feel like they were hidden away and have lots of interesting details to them, like the small chapel near the mines or the grassy ruins near the mountainside hideout. It also helps that they often don't look like an ordinary high or low profile location, like the mountainside hideout for instance. Generally, the variety of environments is often done well enough that it doesn't feel too abrupt, but at the same time provides a decent sense of progression. Like in the museum mission, the level really feels like you go from the grand public displays to the barer staff areas, to the rough industrial water works, and a cave leading to a temple.

My favourites from the mission pack were the second and third missions, the first one had a bit too much empty space for its own good, and the last one had one part suffer from guard overload, the other part was designed like a platforming level even though the unpredictable physics don't really support it. I was okay with some of the empty spacing in the second because the second one generally had more expansive vistas and the first parts were more focused and had less annoying guard placement than the first one.

Still a great mission pack though. Definitely want to see what else this author has planned.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Just finished "Augustine's Revenge" since JarlFrank had been talking about it and I had it in my T1/G archives.

This is a good cityscape mission, with little nooks and crannies everywhere to cater to explorers, a LONG journey through said cityscape, and a ludicrously high loot requirement on Expert (almost 90% of the total 14500 loot).

That said, it's not without its faults. There are at least two ladders that will give people troubles getting off of them, a few lamps and torches block Garrett's progress, ghosting this mission seems impossible (water tower guard) but the absolutely worst part is the writing. OH LORDS the writing is so horrible. Garrett must avenge some nobby who hired him to screw over another nobby who's also screwing with the maid. The problem is that almost every readable that involves secret, clandestine, not-a-word-about-this kinda dealings are written CLEARLY and PRECISELY on notes that seem to be far too common and far too easy to spot. The Lady of the manor is also screwing with one of the guards? Fair enough, but for them to leave little notes around for each other, whose meaning is clear to everyone to see?!? Is this manor a retard asylum?

At first I was willing to be forgiving due to its age, until I realized that I misread, the FM is from 2009, not 1999. That makes some of these blunders kinda inexcusable.

This FM has a lot going for it - but it could also use some improvement. Recommended only for the cityscape journey.

 

[skacky]

Augustine's Revenge is definitely ghostable, and you can even Perfect Thief it.

 

[JarlFrank]

Eh, didn't even notice the dumb writing when I first played it because the cityscape was so enjoyable to explore and the texturing and architecture give it that awesome Thief Gold vibe that few missions manage to achieve.

 

[Melan]

There was a story? Maybe. I treated Augustine's revenge as a pure gameplay mission. [E:FB]

 

[JarlFrank]

I treat most missions as first-and-foremost gameplay missions. A good story is a nice addition, if it supports the gameplay (like Ominous Bequest or Rowena's Curse).

 

[Mofleaker]

Wow, I just started Mercenaries from stinkykitty's pack. I just had to take a shot of the sheer fucking size of the abbey:

Spoiler

It's not just a setpiece either. The entirety of the roof is traversable, with multiple entrances to the place via windows. What a masterpiece.

Oh and here's the stack of crates I used to make the shot (I still couldn't get a full view of the place):

Spoiler

The infinity crate is great, mate. If you haven't downloaded this mission pack, do it now.

 

[Icewater]

Can't see shit, mate.

Also, you're not Blaine.

 

[Astral Rag]

Oh and here's the stack of crates I used to make the shot (I still couldn't get a full view of the place):

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Continuing my dig in my T1/G archive, I came upon "Sepulchre of the Sinistral", or as some taffers call it, 'Bonehoard squared'. Garrett must enter an abandoned Hammerite church to be able to access an old Hammerite tomb which then leads to an ancient sepulchre, all to score some cash and the Masamune sword.

This FM is 100% undead, there isn't even a rat or spider anywhere to break up the monotony. At least there's more than just zombiez/haunts/spirits lurking in the darkness.

The Sepulchre's greatest strength AND weakness is its difficulty. It has some REALLY clever, but challenging puzzles. Just getting into the sepulchre involves a pixel-hunt for a 'key' and solving cryptic clues, similar things await in the Sepulchre itself, like a maze that börks your compass, a true/false logic puzzle involving 7 scrolls and a large underwater section where special diving gear will be needed. The architecture and atmosphere is very dark and menacing, and the Crypt of Terror will probably make a few players yelp in fright.

Recommended for those that can put up with the living dead.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Getting to the end of my T1/G archive, I'm only gonna post the ones I feel like keeping:

"Deadly Darkness" is an undead romp. A wizard academy has suddenly become overrun with undead, and you're commissioned to get in there, find the source of the undead and put a stop to it. While the level layout and atmosphere is very Thief-like, the gameplay is not. You're given a holy sword, holy arrows replace your broadheads and I broke my own personal record for damage done in a single FM (over 50.000 points!). This is a beat-em'up mission for Thief, even right at the start you're in the thick of fighting. Worth a look for fans of flying zombie parts, at least.

Then there's the one FM I had never managed to play through until now - "Lorgan's Web". This truly is one of the masterpieces of T1/G FMs. Garrett is about to attempt a heist at a large (no, GIGANTIC) mansion, except he gets ratted out and needs to do a runner just to save his own skin, before turning the tables and making off with the loot. This FM takes the 'Assassins' map from the OM and runs with it - Ramires' estate is switched out for Lord Fishkill's manor, which is even larger. There's a basic sewer system beneath the city, and loads of little corners that have that good 'ol "Thief cityscape" feel - though Rope Arrows are sadly of little use here. Another item of note are the 'supporting characters' - seems this city is called Ankh-Morpork, as C.M.O.T. Dibbler, Foul Ole Ron and even Captain Vimes make appearances.

One final thng - NewDark breaks the FM so that one secret door doesn't work. Fortunately the mission can still be completed, but this should give people the warning that there are several old FMs which have become outdated.

I should give the sequel a try, "Lord FishKill's Curse" - but that one features custom scripts, so it may be even more broken than Lorgan's Web.

 

[Melan]

Lord Fishkill's Curse is excellent and unique... although be prepared for more serious Ankh-Morpork intrusions.