Thief fan missions and campaigns

[SharkClub]

I beat The Black Parade a few days ago and it's been marinating in my brain. Overall I was very satisfied with it, I loved how pretty much every other readable had a reference or nod to another FM and that I could recognize a lot of them, like it's all one big horrible world of Thief with Garrett in 50 different places at once. I think the level design was great for the most part and that a lot of the levels mirror themes of Thief 1 levels but with hugely updated dark engine sorcery that wasn't possible back in the day.

My favourite level in the campaign was probably Jaws of Darkness, I loved the variety and all the different enemies in it along with the oppressive atmosphere, it didn't matter to me that it was comparatively linear (I'm one of those people that doesn't even dislike The Mage Towers, and a lot of Jaws of Darkness is similar to that but in an underground complex). When the Ettin showed up in Arcane Sanctuary I had a nerdboner moment, never thought I'd see that ugly bastard outside of that one beta screenshot.

The final level was probably the weakest part. If I had to guess I'd say the mod developers thought about doing a Sabotage at Soulforge style final map where you go around disrupting various parts of the ritual all over the massive cathedral, but ended up going for a simple switcheroo like The Maw of Chaos instead, that's just my personal speculation though. The level definitely feels empty, too open and not linear enough for a single objective which is effectively a race to the finish, it's like if you had Sabotage at Soulforge but the only objective is just find the way to the end of the level to switch the Eye out and dupe the Trickster like in The Maw of Chaos.

Anyway, this campaign is a true love letter to Thief 1, warts and all. Variety, baby! That's what Thief 1 does best and why it's a better game than Thief 2, and The Black Parade definitely delivers on the promise of variety.

 

[JarlFrank]

 

[Mikeal]

So in Death's Domain that super powered zombie spawning after stealing necklace should fall in hole in the ground?

 

[catfood]

Very good mission. Probably my second favorite so far after #2. I really liked the fan service at the end. It's so nice to see this campaign tie in so neatly with the three originals. By the way, when exactly does this take place time-wise? From what I've gathered it takes place before Thief 1 or during it, but I'm not exactly sure.

 

[Beastro]

So in Death's Domain that super powered zombie spawning after stealing necklace should fall in hole in the ground?

Not intentionally, but he can sometimes and then becomes harmless.

 

[Beastro]

Mission 8

I didn't like this one. It isn't what's exactly in it that's the problem, each piece is good, but there being too many things shoved into the level for you to fully enjoy each of them. Each of the trees thus ruins the forest.

It feels like they had a bunch of left over material/ideas for multiple missions that they couldn't fully flesh out or had to trim to keep the mission count down. Each were too good to not use though, so they all got shoved into one mission that drags while at the same time lack enough in most areas to really be enjoyable.

Each of the critters in every area are oddly clashing as a result rather than blending together. By the end you're running into so many weird things it undermines their scariness (the weird goat mask thing was too goody to be scary, but the mantis ones I wish were used more with how creepily they moved). The stone spider with the statues riding it reveals this the most. Makes me wish there'd been more for such an enemy to be in rather than it coming as an afterthought near the very end of the mission.

With that said, I'd have loved to have had such full missions: a forest one, another haunted tomb area one, especially a full spider level and then the weird mantis reskinned critters near the bottom.

The best example of this for me was the spider area. When I first went in I noticed that I'd stepped on a web that reacted to me. I instantly put two and two together and booked it back from whence I came as the two spiders silently came down from the ceiling. I really enjoyed that little bit and began to expect more spider stuff that makes you switch from sneaking to being careful of foot placement to stop more such events in other rooms... but no, you then face the big spider, get the strings and move on.

The only area which breaks this mold is the elemental puzzle area which is sizable enough for you to full enjoy it before you move on. I enjoyed each of the four areas, though only a single enemy in 3 out of 4 of them was kind of a bummer, not that I wanted to face more of the exploding fire ones again. The water enemies were good and probably the creepiest in the mission.

The forest also was a nice nostalgia trip in an odd way. It felt A LOT like a Tenchu map and made me wish it had been one set in the Tenchu mold (I'm thinking Tenchu 1s second mission where you're supposed to cross a town at night to deliver a message, rather here it would be crossing the forest to get to the next mission location.).

Onto the second to last map, and I see we're done with stealing and stuff. Makes me kinda sad it's already there rather than at the end.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

It's so nice to see this campaign tie in so neatly with the three originals. By the way, when exactly does this take place time-wise? From what I've gathered it takes place before Thief 1 or during it, but I'm not exactly sure.

Your guess is as good as mine.

No, really. My guess is that TBP starts just before Thief 1, and ends sometime around the first missions of Thief 1, at best. I'd have to consult the readables of Thief 1 closer to give a more precise answer.

Numerous events in TBP point to this, but the key event is DeWall's fate, I faintly recall reading about it somewhere outside of TBP, but I can't remember precisely where.

 

[Scrounger]

I think it's referenced in several places! I'm pretty sure "Between These Dark Walls" and "Endless Rain" are placed after the Black Parade.

 

[Beastro]

It's so nice to see this campaign tie in so neatly with the three originals. By the way, when exactly does this take place time-wise? From what I've gathered it takes place before Thief 1 or during it, but I'm not exactly sure.

Your guess is as good as mine.

No, really. My guess is that TBP starts just before Thief 1, and ends sometime around the first missions of Thief 1, at best. I'd have to consult the readables of Thief 1 closer to give a more precise answer.

Numerous events in TBP point to this, but the key event is DeWall's fate, I faintly recall reading about it somewhere outside of TBP, but I can't remember precisely where.

Some of the TBP diaries in-game list the year as 833 while Thief 1 takes place in the year x84.

 

[Jack Of Owls]

I'm noticing that some of the older FMs can be absolutely brutal in higher difficulty settings, seemingly designed for autists who played and re-played Thief games and FMs hundreds and hundreds of times. There's one about a prison escape that starts off in near total darkness except for the lantern of the hammerite guard walking by your cell (right off the bat you're thinking: "Okay, I'm surely missing textures here because it's so old and I'm using NewDark" but no, it's suppose to be that way) but if you select Expert difficulty you've literally got less than 15-20 seconds to find a makeshift lockpick (a splinter of wood, I think), pick the lock, and get out, otherwise it's game over, man. This is insane. I did play Lord Edmund Entertains! - one of the very first FMs for TG from 1999 - and found it short and enjoyable though. More difficult on Expert than anything in TBP I played so far (still on Mission 6) but reasonable.

 

[SharkClub]

I'm noticing that some of the older FMs can be absolutely brutal in higher difficulty settings, seemingly designed for autists who played and re-played Thief games and FMs hundreds and hundreds of times. There's one about a prison escape that starts off in near total darkness except for the lantern of the hammerite guard walking by your cell (right off the bat you're thinking: "Okay, I'm surely missing textures here because it's so old and I'm using NewDark" but no, it's suppose to be that way) but if you select Expert difficulty you've literally got less than 15-20 seconds to find a makeshift lockpick (a splinter of wood, I think), pick the lock, and get out, otherwise it's game over, man. This is insane.

Shadow of Doubt campaign's Mission 2 Tears of Blood, I believe? That whole campaign gave me aids because the scripting is held together with spit and duct tape while also demanding you play certain parts of the levels in a certain way, otherwise the scripting breaks down and doesn't work. There's also a bunch of esoteric and cryptic bullshit, that really comes with the territory with old Thief FMs though, 90% of them are made by people that have no idea that people generally don't find mandatory secret-based progression relying on your pixel hunting ability as fun. I've complained about it in the past but I'm pretty sure I have some form of Thief PTSD in regards to my experience with that campaign in hindsight. The Broadsword of Sheol is one of those FMs I mentioned that got referenced in The Black Parade in a readable, funnily enough.

 

[SharkClub]

Numerous events in TBP point to this, but the key event is DeWall's fate, I faintly recall reading about it somewhere outside of TBP, but I can't remember precisely where.

Cut content conversation between guards in Thief 1:

GUARD3: Sg3c1701: Hey, you remember when the Baron's police took down DeWall?
GUARD2: Sg2c1702: Yeah! Of course.... Had a buddy in the group was blockin' the back alley.
GUARD3: Sg3c1703: I hear it was Raputo turned him over.
GUARD2: Sg2c1704: Another under-market warden? That's slick!

https://thief.fandom.com/wiki/TG_resources_conversations#Unused7

And also in Undercover:

Hammer2: hm2c0901: Even the Baron doth finally act against evil...when prodded with enough vigor.
Hammer1: Hm1c0902: Meanest thou the action on DeWall's thugs?
Hammer2: hm2c0903: Verily, some have told me it was his own brethren who, in sin, didst turn him in.
Hammer1: Hm1c0904: Thieves betray their own. Now as always.

https://thief.fandom.com/wiki/TG_resources_conversations#Undercover3

You can also figure that TBP ends about the time that the first few introductory missions wrap up in Thief 1 prior to The Sword, as Viktoria is looking for someone to take on the Constantine job to find someone suitable to steal the Eye, and she asks Hume at the end of TBP before Garrett is pointed towards the job.

 

[Jack Of Owls]

I'm noticing that some of the older FMs can be absolutely brutal in higher difficulty settings, seemingly designed for autists who played and re-played Thief games and FMs hundreds and hundreds of times. There's one about a prison escape that starts off in near total darkness except for the lantern of the hammerite guard walking by your cell (right off the bat you're thinking: "Okay, I'm surely missing textures here because it's so old and I'm using NewDark" but no, it's suppose to be that way) but if you select Expert difficulty you've literally got less than 15-20 seconds to find a makeshift lockpick (a splinter of wood, I think), pick the lock, and get out, otherwise it's game over, man. This is insane.

Shadow of Doubt campaign's Mission 2 Tears of Blood, I believe? That whole campaign gave me aids because the scripting is held together with spit and duct tape while also demanding you play certain parts of the levels in a certain way, otherwise the scripting breaks down and doesn't work. There's also a bunch of esoteric and cryptic bullshit, that really comes with the territory with old Thief FMs though, 90% of them are made by people that have no idea that people generally don't find mandatory secret-based progression relying on your pixel hunting ability as fun. I've complained about it in the past but I'm pretty sure I have some form of Thief PTSD in regards to my experience with that campaign in hindsight. The Broadsword of Sheol is one of those FMs I mentioned that got referenced in The Black Parade in a readable, funnily enough.

Yes it was the Sperry FM. I'm sure these guys were quite influential and trailblazing in the early Thief FM scene but that doesn't make their old FMs any more playable, pioneering as they were (I take one look at the in-game map for Calendra's Cistern and I want to stay far far away). Thankfully, some of the FM authors realize their mistakes and release revised versions that are significantly better. I'm just about to finish up Off to Milhorn Manor (remastered version), for example, and it's quite an enjoyable and smooth experience with good, logical game design. I really really want to play Emilie Victor (really enjoyed L'Arsene) before tackling Black Frog because the author is clearly talented but I heard that's another earlier FM with nightmare logic where if you don't do things exactly in the right order, you are utterly well and truly screwed. At least the Old Ones through their mistakes taught the newer FM Elder Gods how to be significantly more playable in their works.

 

[JarlFrank]

By the way, when exactly does this take place time-wise? From what I've gathered it takes place before Thief 1 or during it, but I'm not exactly sure.

Shortly before Thief 1. It happens after Garrett leaves the Keepers but before he takes the Bafford job. There are references to an old heist mentioned in the original game (the gems of Sarnoth), as well as some of Garrett's pseudonyms he took during early jobs. The current year is also mentioned in several readables, and the century (the 800s) was first established in Melan's FMs. TBP and most fan missions made by the Feuillade Industries authors use that timeline. While the original game never mentions the century, the decade is taken from a readable in Bafford's manor: a ledger that mentions the year '34.

So the original Thief Gold events would happen in the year 834.

I don't remember the exact year given in Black Parade's texts, but when you come across a readable that mentions the current year, you'll know exactly how long before the original game's events this one is set.

 

[JarlFrank]

I really really want to play Emilie Victor (really enjoyed L'Arsene) before tackling Black Frog because the author is clearly talented but I heard that's another earlier FM with nightmare logic where if you don't do things exactly in the right order, you are utterly well and truly screwed.

Happened to me. I always go for full knockouts in my playthroughs, but apparently there is a servant who's needed for some script to fire later, and me knocking him out threw me into a walking dead situation. Nothing in the FM tells you that you shouldn't KO this particular servant though. You just play normally, and suddenly you find yourself stuck with no explanation as to why.

 

[Jack Of Owls]

I really really want to play Emilie Victor (really enjoyed L'Arsene) before tackling Black Frog because the author is clearly talented but I heard that's another earlier FM with nightmare logic where if you don't do things exactly in the right order, you are utterly well and truly screwed.

Happened to me. I always go for full knockouts in my playthroughs, but apparently there is a servant who's needed for some script to fire later, and me knocking him out threw me into a walking dead situation. Nothing in the FM tells you that you shouldn't KO this particular servant though. You just play normally, and suddenly you find yourself stuck with no explanation as to why.

I'm the same way playing Thief games; if I can't kill them, I'll brain them, brain them all! I've said this before here (and it's been said by others many many times before) but any game design where even the brightest, most experienced players have to consult a walkthrough to win is by definition poor game design. At least TBP gives you everything you need to make that uber-sword that kills undead with just a single whack in the form of clues and readables carefully placed in the hellscape. To someone like myself who tends to skip over readables (though I'm learning to enjoy and take my time with them now, some of them being necessary for progression) it's not going to be easy, but anything like a supersword that is deadly bane to undead should not come easy. You must work for it. It's a shame the author of Emilie Victor couldn't figure out a new Thief mechanic to keep the servant from being knocked out outside of, say, just making them "immortal" (which is overused and too contrived in games). You chasing your tail for hours and hours with no hope of progression sounds truly discouraging.

 

[JarlFrank]

That's just one example I remember btw, L'Arsene and Emilie Victor are both very script-heavy FMs that are prone to break if you mess around too much and do something unintended.

 

[Beastro]

that are prone to break if you mess around too much and do something unintended.

But that's what Thief's all about.

I'm on the 9th mission of TBP and I'm tempted to just go wild blackjacking everyone celebrating outside the mages castle. There's just so many of them, I can't just not leave them untouched!

Gotta figure out how to take the guards out first that are around, then enjoy chasing everyone else as they scatter and flee with me in pursuit swinging like mad.

 

[Jack Of Owls]

Favorite moment in L'Arsene was going off the beaten track and doing some vertical exploring and coming across an old (but well-dressed) whore whose apartment was festooned in red who I tried to have sex with. But when I tried to frob or activate on her to give her money, nothing happened. She just stood there looking angry and impatient until she finally exploded into fury and violence and beat me to death (she was pretty strapping and healthy looking, and I couldn't fight back because I was playing on no-kill Expert difficulty). I'm thinking now I should have selected some coins in my inventory and then Used on her. Which reminds me that in Off to Milhorn Manor, the FM has strong adventure game moments where you have to find a shovel and a pick and select them in inventory to progress in certain segments. I actually loved these moments and wish more FMs would do them.

​

 

[Unkillable Cat]

"Off to Milhorn Manor" is just one example of many where FM authors had most of the pieces of the puzzle that would constitute a good Thief experience, but not all. Most FM authors were sorta taffing around in the dark with first what they could do, and then what they should do. A necessary part of the process, as many people aren't gotta hit it out of the park on the first swing.

Have you noticed how large the Milhorn Manor really is? Bafford's manor feels kinda small by comparison. And the remake cuts out a really annoying part; once you had finished almost all the objectives you had to backtrack all the way to the start where an alchemist had set up his shop, break into said shop to retrieve an item needed to complete some ritual/potion/MacGuffin, then go all the way towards the other end of the mission to wrap up the finale.

Imagine playing "The Maw of Chaos" and Garrett suddenly has to run back to his house because he remembered that he left the stove on.

 

[JarlFrank]

that are prone to break if you mess around too much and do something unintended.

But that's what Thief's all about.

I'm on the 9th mission of TBP and I'm tempted to just go wild blackjacking everyone celebrating outside the mages castle. There's just so many of them, I can't just not leave them untouched!

Gotta figure out how to take the guards out first that are around, then enjoy chasing everyone else as they scatter and flee with me in pursuit swinging like mad.

I knocked everyone out. My final KO tally at mission's end was almost 100. You gotta KO them before visiting Iarodo because after that the celebrants outside will go back home and vanish from the streets.

There is one guard I had to flashbomb, but everyone else was easy pickings because civilians can be KO'd even when running away and facing you.

Good luck.

 

[JarlFrank]

"Off to Milhorn Manor" is just one example of many where FM authors had most of the pieces of the puzzle that would constitute a good Thief experience, but not all. Most FM authors were sorta taffing around in the dark with first what they could do, and then what they should do. A necessary part of the process, as many people aren't gotta hit it out of the park on the first swing.

Have you noticed how large the Milhorn Manor really is? Bafford's manor feels kinda small by comparison. And the remake cuts out a really annoying part; once you had finished almost all the objectives you had to backtrack all the way to the start where an alchemist had set up his shop, break into said shop to retrieve an item needed to complete some ritual/potion/MacGuffin, then go all the way towards the other end of the mission to wrap up the finale.

Imagine playing "The Maw of Chaos" and Garrett suddenly has to run back to his house because he remembered that he left the stove on.

Yeah the original was a 3/10 for me, I hated its oversized areas and tedium that much. But the remake improves it quite a lot, up to a 6/10. Really shows how thin the line between good and bad is and how important for authors to keep having at it until it clicks.

 

[Jack Of Owls]

Re: Off to Milhorn Manor - all those rooms with not a whole lot in them (but at least not empty... the kid's bedroom with the monster toy and the letter to the mother from the toymaker that it was a free "economy version" because the real model was out of stock made me smile... little things like this can add a lot of flavor to an FM)) was kind of annoying, but I'm just glad I didn't play the original. One thing I'd change in a lot of Thief FMs is have some kind of final challenge with at least a semblance of an end game boss fight. I wish I had known if I knocked out the villain-lady of the house or not. She was involved in something sinister and supernatural involving Elder Gods (I think) but she was just another anonymous brain for my club and never knew what hit her as much as I didn't know if I hit her.

 

[JarlFrank]

I like how Lady Rowena's missions give every NPC a name, even the regular guards.

 

[Jack Of Owls]

I think in general giving names to every NPC can backfire, especially if it's a big game with a lot of NPCs, and confuse the player and make them think something like, "hmm, is this Arke Jakobsson suppose to be somebody or is he a nobody?" but a small Thief FM by a talented author might be able to pull it off.