Decline Thiaf Pre-Release Thread

[Angthoron]

It's not the thread that we need, but it's the lulz that we deserve.

 

[sexbad?]

sexbad

True, but my point was that there will be tons of excuses thrown around while ignoring the simple fact that Eidos Montreal put out a mediocre product that even the mainstream gaming landscape will bash. EM keeps preaching about how "it's not 1998 anymore" and how they want Thiaf to connect with today's AAA gaming world. Well, it looks like Thiaf is shit even when held to AAA modern standards and will be dismissed as a soulless "3rd rate Dishonored" and rightfully so.

I wasn't objecting, but rather poking fun at Gamespot.

 

[SharkClub]

The shill infestation in this thread is goddamn impressive, I gotta say.

 

[racofer]

did we really need 202 pages for this.

here is my comprehensive critical analysis of Thi4f:







No.

What's the point of keeping the Codex around, anyway? We've already determined that everything is shit.

 

[Data4]

Even a stillborn baby has the DNA of its predecessors.

Just sayin'.

 

[Telengard]

And I'm sure Dishonored and Assassin's Creed are proud of the baby they've given birth to.

 

[Tom Selleck]

And I'm sure Dishonored and Assassin's Creed are proud of the dead, malformed dumpster baby they've discarded in the trash at their middle-school prom given birth to.

Tim "The Toolman" Taylor in TV's Tool Timed that for you.

 

[Oesophagus]

Thinly veiled criticism of nuthiaf by way of a TDP retrospective:

 

[Azazel]

I do find it hilarious, in a "wow how is that even possible" kind of way that

Spoiler

the boss fight is you hugging this bitch with some magic rocks in your pocket.

I suspect we won't have seen console kiddie this hard since the boss fight from Fable 2 (which I thought was sheer genius as a metacommentary on the genre).

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Just finished watching the Errant Signal video. Some key phrases that caught my ear:

Thief also differs from modern stealth games due to its level design. Modern stealth levels are, for the most part, intensively designed affairs. I mean level design is important in combat-focused games too, sure, but it's even more important for stealth games where guard paths, player visibility, item placement, resource scarcity and places to run and hide, all have to be balanced while still communicating to the players where they need to go and what they need to do. Thief... pre-dates that sort of design-oriented approach to levels. In fact, Thief levels are obscenely large and complex, labyrinthean even, with nonsensical architecture and oddly intersecting hallways that seem designed specifically to confuse players. Sparesly decorated rooms with the same base texture set, they all begin to blur together and the player's often only given a compass and a VERY rough sketch to the level to guide them.

Basically, because of levels like The Sword and the fact that ANCIENT RUINS AREN'T FULL OF DECORATIONS, EYE CANDY AND HANDY ROADSIGNS, Thief TDP is doing something wrong. Realism is wrong nowadays?

The above paragraph is followed by a list of the good things about Thief's level design, but then it goes back to this:

But, even with those advantages, the levels on display here are simply too large, it's almost the opposite to [DX] Invisible War, the levels are so huge it's easy to forget what the point of them even is, there's no greater tension than the guard around the next corner. I'll give you an example: There's a level that has you break into a restaurant, and that restaurant is a front for a secret casino underground, and under the casino is a maze of sewer tunnels that holds a thieves' den, and at the end there are two seperate houses connected to opposite ends of the den. As Garrett, you have to break into the restaurant, sneak through the casino, find your way through the thieves' den to the house that has the key to a safe, then sneak your way back through the thieves' den and break into a house that has the safe itself, then find your way back to the streets. And the kicker? This is complete filler. The level before has you stealing from Ramirez as revenge for trying to assassinate you, and the level after has Viktoria contact you after your success with the Ramirez job. The Thieves' Den quest [lulz] adds nothing to the narrative, it has nothing to do with the narrative, it doesn't really add anything to the experience, it's just an hour and a half of this game needing to be longer.

He's right on the Thieves' Den level being complete filler, as it was added in Thief Gold and is not present in the original Thief. It's also single-handedly the most drawn-out and needlessly convulated level in Thief, it's the only negative point about Thief Gold at all. And yet he uses it as an example and point of criticism against the ENTIRE game.

And back to my previous point:

And I'm focusing so much on the levels here, because it's really what but drives the most and least enjoyable parts of the game. Thief is at its best when the level design works in favour of the core mechanics, with levels that have a tight focus on stealth and infiltration and maybe with slight, minor diversions into exploration or puzzle-solving for flavour. But too often levels become "Find the Hidden Object" games when you've completed story objectives but haven't found enough arbitrary loot to move on to the next level, or vice-versa.

Raise of hands, anyone: When playing on Normal, has anyone ever had problems with meeting the loot count in Thief 1+2? Ever?

This point of criticism is valid for the Expert level, but it's called "Expert" for a reason. There's even a point in Thief 3 where you can't meet the loot requirement on Expert without failing an optional (and undocumented) objective, which leads to you having to deal with an assassin as a result. But hey, that's not a problem for Expert-level Garrett, no?

But the rest of the video is very solid. A few minor points of criticism here and there, with the biggest point being how he claims that a majority of Thief players prefer the "steampunk, life-of-Garrett style levels instead of the magical Mage Towers or dimensions of the Pagan Elder Gods levels". To each his own. I prefer TG over T2 because of the diversity of levels, I never feel bored going from one different job to another... except, sometimes, during the Thieves' Den.

 

[Infinitron]

I've posted that video here: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/the-errant-signal-thread.74564/page-26#post-3131570

 

[Angthoron]

I do find it hilarious, in a "wow how is that even possible" kind of way that

Spoiler

the boss fight is you hugging this bitch with some magic rocks in your pocket.

I suspect we won't have seen console kiddie this hard since the boss fight from Fable 2 (which I thought was sheer genius as a metacommentary on the genre).

Is this the Erin chick gone White Ghost or what or when? Why's it all blurry?

 

[Borelli]

There's even a point in Thief 3 where you can't meet the loot requirement on Expert without failing an optional (and undocumented) objective, which leads to you having to deal with an assassin as a result.

I played T3 a looong time ago but part of my memory remembers something like this. Where exactly is this situation found?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

There's even a point in Thief 3 where you can't meet the loot requirement on Expert without failing an optional (and undocumented) objective, which leads to you having to deal with an assassin as a result.

I played T3 a looong time ago but part of my memory remembers something like this. Where exactly is this situation found?

The manor with the widow.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

To be more precise, it's mentioned somewhere that her late husband left her an inheritance, something to allow her to live out her remaining years with a bit of dignity. This inheritance can be found and stolen if the player so chooses. Unfortunately, the loot requirement for Expert level is 90% of all obtainable loot, and this is only doable by stealing the inheritance, which is found in a large chest in a secret room.

 

[DeepOcean]

So just because I think this will be a good for 1 playthrough-8hour-ok game, makes me an advertising plant?

Yeah, play a good eight hours game is fine, I wouldn't call you an advertising plant for that, I think...

Surely it has more gameplay than games like Bioshock infinite or call of duty

No, you are a whole cannabis plantation.

 

[Zewp]

So just because I think this will be a good for 1 playthrough-8hour-ok game, makes me an advertising plant?

The fact that you registered exclusively to defend a game the Codex is extremely negative about, while saying retarded things such as you can't judge a game before you've played it, that makes you sound like an advertising plant.

 

[Angthoron]

So just because I think this will be a good for 1 playthrough-8hour-ok game, makes me an advertising plant?

The fact that you registered exclusively to defend a game the Codex is extremely negative about, while saying retarded things such as you can't judge a game before you've played it, that makes you sound like an advertising plant.

Or a gullible white knight on his first internet crusade. Ah, youth, how I miss thee.

 

[Gentle Player]

I know I'm going to regret asking this, but is Benny in Thiaf? What is the guard dialogue like? Also, seeing as he seems to have one, can Gorrott use his mechanical eye to zoom in? What about scouting orbs?

 

[Goegoff]

I know I'm going to regret asking this, but is Benny in Thiaf? What is the guard dialogue like? Also, seeing as he seems to have one, can Gorrott use his mechanical eye to zoom in? What about scouting orbs?

I was watching a stream yesterday. Not 5 minutes in Garret overheard two guards talking about cock-rings; I thought of closing the stream right there, but I persisted. About half an hour later Garret was in a brothel peeping through keyholes and making witty remarks about how to treat the ladies; stream closed.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Wait, cockrings are in the game for real? I thought that was a joke... holey crapooley.

 

[Kirkpatrick]

I know I'm going to regret asking this, but is Benny in Thiaf?

Stephen Russell was the voice of Benny as well, so, nope. :/