Wizardry The Wizardry Series Thread

[JarlFrank]

Gold has worse performance than original in DOS-Box, the portraits have worse art-style... well, I don't remember any others but mondblut has some good arguments for why original is better.

 

[Shagnak]

This has deja-vu coming out of my massive cock, but I think it goes like this:

Gold has some improved faction shit. It runs natively in old windows shite.

BUT: the multi media "improvements" are mostly utter cack. You need extra unskippable sequences? No? It adds extra bugs. The art is higher res, but crappier. The end.

By the way:

USE SEARCH YOU FUKCING GIMBOID ANAL-WELT-GOBLIN

Also:

MONDBLUT KNOWETH ALL

Until next week, bye.

 

[mondblut]

http://rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php ... ht=#912819

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Gold ran on vista for me with no fiddling around at all, but I decided it was shite two minutes in

 

[hal900x]

http://rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=912819&highlight=#912819

Not again...

I can just repeat to commit everything Mondblut says to memory and never ask any questions anymore.

And use the Search function for god's sake, why do we have to answer the same damn question every damn year? It's a lot of work. 1 minute or so every year.

If I did this for 60 years you'd have stolen an hour of my life. Hope you feel happy now.

Making me at least the third go-round. But it's OK, because being berated on an internet forum is more social interaction than I get all day lately. I belong here.

 

[Gragt]

You will be berated and you will love it and you will thank us for it.

 

[SkeleTony]

Gold slightly messed up Diplomacy, the general consensus is and had some terrible voice acting(by non-actors who worked at Sir-Tech apparently).

However, it had great voice over narrative and some handy features that made it more user-friendly. But it also has a major problem with modern systems like Win XP where the text goes by far too fast to be read(and Mo-Slo and Dosbox cannot help you here).

I played Gold before I played CoDS so I am coming at this from a slightly different perspective but I find Gold to be better than CoDS/7. Even with the text-speed problem(you can always use a walkthrough to figure out what you need to say to whatever NPC).

 

[SkeleTony]

I don't care, but if it gives me games like Etrian Odyssey and Dark Spire, please Japan, continue.

More dungeon crawlers in these dark times for RPGs are always welcome, especially if they barely have any story and really just focus on crawling.

Ah, but would you rather have Wizardry 6-8 style games or Wizardry 1-4 style games?

6-8...minus the furry-faggotry of course.

 

[Azarkon]

Western people - Start out with early Wizardries, diversify into various other possibilities with the genre, with The Bard's Tale, Wasteland, Might & Magics, later Wizardrys, Gold Box games, Dungeon Master-style real-time RPGs, first-person action RPGs like Ultima Underworld, strategy RPGs like Jagged Alliance, exploration RPGs like Elder Scrolls games, interactivist games like Ultima 7, pausable real-time RPGs, adventure-RPGs, and even some decent shooters with RPG elements.

Japanese people - Borrow early Wizardries, make console ports for them, make clones of them, take clones of them and put in predetermined story-based characters, make loads of clones of the latter, make a mainstream segment of this formula, keep making early Wizardry clones for niche groups, and do this forever!

This is the story of history.

No, this thread, with an Indian worshiping the West, is the story of history.

Honestly, Wyrmlord, do you play Japanese games or do you just read about them?

In the domain of video games, the Japanese (and lately the Koreans) are very creative.

This is my turn to say, you all don't even know what you don't know, or rather, pretend not to know because you failed to use your brain.

I'd start with Okami. Then think about where iconic games like Mario, Street Fighter, Pac-Man, Zelda, Popeye, and Space Invaders came from. The Japanese practically invented several major genres of gaming (not to mention a fuckload of mechanics we take for granted today), some of which are still not really seen in the US.

The magnitude of what the Japanese did for gaming can only be appreciated when you start comparing it to the barren wasteland known as European gaming. Seriously guys, I can count the number of iconic European games on one hand.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

Weeaboo faggot AND an ignorant twat? How could possibly the two even come together?

Okami is a 3D platformer. You played one, you played all of them. Because they're all fucking same. Don't pull creativity out of your ass just because it uses cellshading. We had cellshading in gaming for like a decade.

The Japanese practically invented several major genres of gaming (not to mention a fuckload of mechanics we take for granted today), some of which are still not really seen in the US.

See if you weren't such a brainrot you'd know that when amerikkkans were buying NES by the millions because they had highway ship lane to Retard Country there was entire market unrelated to either in Europe. Not to mention the genres which are "still not seen in the US" are still not seen there because even the biggest yellowcock suckers realize they fucking suck and/or aren't even GAMES in the first place(Like the entire dating sim section).
It's also hilarious how they invented "major" genres of gaming and yet these "major" genres are mostly unheard about in civilized world: only recently indie fucks jumped on platformer bandwagon because it's just so easy to make, there are something like three(3) fighting game lines out of which only SF can still be taken seriously, shmups are pretty much dead even in Japan... in the meantime, what is the shit? FPS, RTS, and running around with chainsawguns. But you don't see japs making these games, do you.

The magnitude of what the Japanese did for gaming can only be appreciated when you start comparing it to the barren wasteland known as European gaming. Seriously guys, I can count the number of iconic European games on one hand.

Of course, since your other one is squeezing the Big Mac.

 

[Azarkon]

Weeaboo faggot AND an ignorant twat? How could possibly the two even come together?

Emotional Vampire

Okami is a 3D platformer. You played one, you played all of them. Because they're all fucking same. Don't pull creativity out of your ass just because it uses cellshading. We had cellshading in gaming for like a decade.

Sure, just like Planescape Torment is an isometric RPG. You played one, you played all of them. Because they're all the fucking same. I mean, they have dialogue, they're isometric, they have combat, they have stats, they're RPGs - clearly they're all identical.

See if you weren't such a brainrot you'd know that when amerikkkans were buying NES by the millions because they had highway ship lane to Retard Country there was entire market unrelated to either in Europe. Not to mention the genres which are "still not seen in the US" are still not seen there because even the biggest yellowcock suckers realize they fucking suck and/or aren't even GAMES in the first place(Like the entire dating sim section).

Name some great early European games that people in OTHER countries have heard of. Show how they influenced modern game development.

It's also hilarious how they invented "major" genres of gaming and yet these "major" genres are mostly unheard about in civilized world: only recently indie fucks jumped on platformer bandwagon because it's just so easy to make, there are something like three(3) fighting game lines out of which only SF can still be taken seriously, shmups are pretty much dead even in Japan... in the meantime, what is the shit? FPS, RTS, and running around with chainsawguns. But you don't see japs making these games, do you.

Now that's retarded. Just about every fucking person in the West knows about Mario, Pac-Man, etc. Where were you when gaming began to take off? Oh, I know - in Europe.

Btw, besides platformers, fighting games, and shmups, the Japanese also pioneered/heavily influenced handhelds, bmups, racing games, adventure games, pokemon-like games, music games, stealth games, and survival horror games (or just horror games in general). Plus, obviously, JRPGs, visual novels, dating sims, and various weird games (ie Katamari Damacy). If you don't think dating sims and visual novels should be considered games, fine. I don't want to argue this point because it'd require me to divulge which ones I've played (alas for curiosity)

As for popularity ... which console dominated the last round of console wars, and how many games on said console were Japanese? How quickly we forget.

And despite the hate JRPGs receive from this board, it is one of the most popular genres of gaming in the world. Ditto for visual novels and dating sims in Asia.

First-person shooters, Western RPGs, MMOs, and non-RPG strategy games (what do they all have in common? That's right, they're PC games) are pretty much the only genres that the Japs didn't influence, at least not to a large degree.

Of course, since your other one is squeezing the Big Mac.

See my challenge above.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Holy shit.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

Sure, just like Planescape Torment is an isometric RPG. You played one, you played all of them. Because they're all the fucking same. I mean, they have dialogue, they're isometric, they have combat, they have stats, they're RPGs - clearly they're all identical.

rofl, fine, list me the astonishingly original game mechanics of Okami.

Now that's retarded. Just about every fucking person in the West knows about Mario, Pac-Man, etc. Where were you when gaming began to take off? Oh, I know - in Europe.

Damn you must be butthurt about Europe, since it doesn't even have anything to do with what I said.

Btw, besides platformers, fighting games, and shmups, the Japanese also pioneered/heavily influenced handhelds, bmups, racing games, adventure games, pokemon-like games, music games, stealth games, and survival horror games (or just horror games in general). Plus, obviously, JRPGs, visual novels, dating sims, and various weird games (ie Katamari Damacy). If you don't think dating sims and visual novels should be considered games, fine. I don't want to argue this point because it'd require me to divulge which ones I've played (alas for curiosity)

That list is so retarded that you know what? I won't even fucking bother. Putting aside the fact most of these genres are dead(How many racing games can you fucking name, seriously), if you think that japs invented/influenced stealth, adventure, or survival horror, you're frankly retarded.

As for popularity ... which console dominated the last round of console wars, and how many games on said console were Japanese? How quickly we forget.

Forget what? You mistake me for someone who gives a fuck about what braindead shit gets released on consoles.

And despite the hate JRPGs receive from this board, it is one of the most popular genres of gaming in the world. Ditto for visual novels and dating sims in Asia.

It's popular so it's great - irrefutable argument

First-person shooters, Western RPGs, MMOs, and non-RPG strategy games (what do they all have in common? That's right, they're PC games)

DO I SEE A PATTERN?

 

[SkeleTony]

Yeah, not to be taking sides here but I would point out that Britney Spears and The Backstreet Boys were once the hottest musical acts in the world.

No one in their right mind would say that they contributed to music in any serious, substantive way.

 

[Azarkon]

rofl, fine, list me the astonishingly original game mechanics of Okami.

How about using your controller as a paintbrush to make and counter attacks?

That list is so retarded that you know what? I won't even fucking bother. Putting aside the fact most of these genres are dead(How many racing games can you fucking name, seriously), if you think that japs invented/influenced stealth, adventure, or survival horror, you're frankly retarded.

If you think the Japs didn't strongly influence stealth or survival horror (adventure is debatable; I was thinking of sub-genres), you're retarded, but since you won't bother, I won't either.

Forget what? You mistake me for someone who gives a fuck about what braindead shit gets released on consoles.

Yeah, if I pissed on consoles, pissed on indies, and pissed on Jap games, I'd be stuck with RTS, FPS, and WRPGs too. Moreover, I'm sure that makes me an expert on everything I don't care about.

It's popular so it's great - irrefutable argument

But is it art? :smugcodex:

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Holy shit.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

How about using your controller as a paintbrush to make and counter attacks?

Shit, is that it? Hot damn. Now I see I totally missed out, brb amazon.

If you think the Japs didn't influence stealth or survival horror (adventure is debatable), you're retarded, but since you won't bother, I won't either.

SPOILER: Fixed cameras in corners resulting in cumbersome and unprecise controls combined with "fake" low visibility(i.e. you can't see down the corridor because holy fuck, it's separated into three top-down fixed camera locations instead) is not survival horror, it's a joke.

Yeah, if I pissed on consoles, pissed on indies, and pissed on Jap games, I'd be stuck with RTS, FPS, and WRPGs too. Moreover, I'm sure that makes me an expert on everything I don't care about.

But it would make you an expert on things that matter.

Your point, in case you forgot it, was that Jap games weren't influential and that nobody's heard of their genres.

If japanese games were influential we'd have everyone copying them. See, we had Doom and then everyone copied it to the point the genre was called "Doom-clones" for some time. See, we had Dune 2 and then everyone copied that. It didn't go so well with RPGs, sadly, oh well.

Where are the western versions of jRPGs, pokemons, "survival horrors", dating sims, fighting games and so on? Or are the jap equivalents so fucking perfect you can't improve on them in any way?

 

[Gerrard]

Where are the western versions of jRPGs, pokemons, "survival horrors", dating sims, fighting games and so on?

You'd find them if you actually bothered to look. Most of them pretty bad.

Western fighting games, r00fles.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

Okay, correction: I am talking about commercially released ones, you know with company name and budget and everything.

Not some "indie" shit.

 

[Gerrard]

You are seriously a fucking idiot if you can't find at least one western game in each of those genres. Not to mention that "survival horror" is not a Japanese invention.

And since when is "pokemons" a genre?

 

[Azrael the cat]

Where are the western versions of jRPGs, pokemons, "survival horrors", dating sims, fighting games and so on? Or are the jap equivalents so fucking perfect you can't improve on them in any way?

Is this argument what happens when an immovable object meets an unstoppable force? No. It's when one idiot meets an even bigger idiot with a lame emo name.

I seriously couldn't believe it when I read that last quote - I wouldn't have thought it POSSIBLE to be that thick.

Western 'survival horror' - Dead Space, the fourth Silent Hill game: gee there's some obvious superiority right there!

'dating sims' - heard of a company called Bioware? Ok, so the west does dating sims as a minigame, but they're pretty much promoting it as the main selling point of Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age.

'fighting games' - uh...the mortal combat games? You know, that series that was famous for being so much crapper than Street Fighter, and for making up for shit gameplay by having more gore?

Developer idiocy doesn't know national boundaries.

 

[Azarkon]

If japanese games were influential we'd have everyone copying them. See, we had Doom and then everyone copied it to the point the genre was called "Doom-clones" for some time. See, we had Dune 2 and then everyone copied that. It didn't go so well with RPGs, sadly, oh well.

Where are the western versions of jRPGs, pokemons, "survival horrors", dating sims, fighting games and so on? Or are the jap equivalents so fucking perfect you can't improve on them in any way?

Seriously? How many console games have you played in your life? I'm guessing the number is between zero and near zero if you can't name Western games in genres like shumps, bumps, platformers, fighting, music/dance, and survival horror. In the genres where the West and the Japs both have a significant presence, influence from their games is often very significant. Look at Guitar Hero, for example, which started as an attempt to bring Guitarfreaks to the West.

As forJRPGs and pokemon-clones, my guess is that at some point Western developers drew the line and realized that they couldn't/shouldn't compete with the Japanese on their home turf, though even then you have games like Anachronox. It's the same with Western-specific genres in reverse: you don't see many Jap WRPGs, RTSs, or FPSs, do you?

Bottom line: most of the Jap genres you say are "dead" are very alive, if not in the West then at least in Japan/Asia. And frankly, that's a good thing, unless you want to see endless clones of FPS, action-adventure, and RTS games for the rest of your life (a monotony broken up only by the occasional good WRPG).

It also goes against the notion that all Japs ever do is clone Western games, which is how this all started.

Also, Wii.

 

[The Wizard]

Also, Wii.

what does that gimmick console have to do with _anything_?

as for the topic: you fight, fight, answer a question with a yes/maybe/... and then fight some more. that's pretty much why. it also doesn't help that most western rpg's are pretty much pc only and because of that don't sell even if you include a free t-shirt. the ones that got a console port aren't that different from j-rpgs anyway, so developers wouldn't profit from making something more akin to arcanum. worst case scenario, they lose big fucking money because writing and implementing consequences is a little more costly than just recolouring a random monster and giving it different stats.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

I once heard about reverse weeaboos - i.e. japs who only play on PC and FPSes, RTSes, etc.

I'd like to meet one

 

[Paula Tormeson IV]

I'd be surprised if Jap platformers didn't have a Western precursor. Really, really surprised. If they didn't, then that would of course completely destroy my argument.

It's only recently that I realized early JRPGs weren't original innovations, but bastardizations and imitations of Western games such as Wizardry. I bet it's the same story with everything.

Everything you think you know is original Japanese innovation is actually something that had a Western precursor. That's my bet.

I don't deny that Super Mario was brilliant. But perhaps there was something almost as brilliant and much more innovative in the West before Super Mario, something that already contained all the seeds and maybe even the flowers that later bloomed in Super Mario.