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Wizardry The Wizardry Series Thread

Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
Tell me to what extent I'm going to have to face old game bullshit like permanent stat changes decided by random dice rolls and so on. If it's some shit like RoA where most players save before every level up to make sure they get a hit point, tell me and I'll resolve to Iron Man the fucker come hell or high water.

Hit-point rolls are random, and class-based, so yeah, your wizard might roll a 1. Hence, to iron-man 6 and 7, you must make sure that the wizard (or any caster, and actually, all characters) have a Vitality of 18, as this gives a guaranteed +2 HP each level and prevent your wizard from being wiped out by fireballs. Mostly.

Stat increases are random, but always positive. Each level, each character has a chance to get +1 to a stat, for each stat. He is guaranteed at least one +1, so no worries there. The level-up stat+1's most desirable are Speed and Dexterity.

There's two big bugs: mana-regeneration depends on STARTING Vitality, and never changes, even if Vitality changes. That means casters REALLY should have 18 VIT. Also, Carry Capacity is fixed at start too, and never changes, so having many characters with 18 STR is a must; you will find many things to carry.

Iron-manning Wizardry 6 and 7 isn't very recommended as the games might throw encounters at you you will have trouble fleeing from. For example, in 6, you might meet 3 groups of 6 Nightgaunts. They will all cast incapacitating spells, like Sleep, and once all are asleep, you are fucked for good. If you must iron-man, save your sanity and do it on "Easy" difficulty, or know that you will need lots of grinding to increase the party's resistance to spells.

Tell me what and how to roll the party. Don't tell me why, just tell me what six characters to make and what stats to give them such that I won't gimp myself, won't miss any combat, and won't have to do anything too tricky build-wise until I've got several hours with the system under my belt.

Depends, see post above. If you never, ever multiclass - an approach I can only recommend on Easy and Normal - you might have luck with:

Lizardman Samurai - 18 STR, 18 VIT, as much DEX as possible
Dwarven Valkyrie - 18 STR, 18 VIT, as much DEX as possible
Fairy Ninja - as much STR as possible
(Female!!) Human Bard - 18 VIT
Gnome Priest - 18 VIT
Fairy Wizard - 18 VIT, as much SPE as possible.

You will need many rolls to roll the lizardman samurai and the fairy ninja. My advice: use the Cosmic Forge editor to change the rolling algorithm to give you higher rolls more easily. It's not cheating, it's saving time, as far as I concerned. As a warning, without that little "cheat", it took me two hours six years ago to roll a decent party. You will want ~18+ bonus points on each character, and the samurai and ninja need more than that to even be selectable. Use it.

Tell me what skills don't do anything, tell me what skills I never need to put a point in, what skill I need to have at 7 at a certain point in the game to get the Sword of Buttfuck, etc.

All the skills do something That said, never put points into:
Oratory
All Weapon Skills
Artifacts
Scribe
Scouting
Music
Ninjutsu


Since all these, except for scouting, improve rapidly with use. Scouting is useless since the spell Detect Secrets has the same function. And if you iron-man, you ought to use artifacts very often, just to survive; bombs and such help a lot early.

And you CAN put points into these skills, once you maxxed the important skils that don't improve with use: this is mainly the respective casting skill - Thaumaturgy for your Wizard, Samurai and Bard, Theology for the Valkyrie and Priest, Alchemy for the Ninja; and far more importantly: Kirijutsu, the instant kill skill, which, when maximized, gives a 20% guaranteed chance to kill an enemy of your hit-die or lower.

Ignore Alchemy on the Ninja and Thaumaturgy on the Samurai and Bard; but put points into Theology for the Valkyrie.

The Bard should focus on lock-picking, called Skullduggery. It's your decision if you want to put points in this, since it rises 1 point each picked door on its own, but you need 10 at the start to even open the easiest doors.

You can ignore "Legerdemain" if you don't mind grinding for money. Besides, you want to iron-man, so reloading after every failed pick-pocket attempt is out of question anyway.

Tell me what I shouldn't exploit that will make the game unfun. Like, if you're familiar with Betrayal at Krondor, you know that only a huge, huge faggot would change his skill foci before every single action he takes, even though that's obviously the best "strategy". Or, if there's some fairly obvious way to set up a money engine or something, tell me what not to do.

Multi-classing has almost no drawbacks in 6 and 7. You could multiclass everyone, once they are level 12, to a Ninja to gain Kirijutsu and Ninjutsu (Hide), then multiclass back once you can, and now have a party where everyone can critically kill the enemies to 20% and Hide in the middle of battle to become untargetable by most monsters. So you might not want to do that.

In 7, you can use "Recharge" to give bought items with charges MANY charges, and then sell them for huge profit.

Some say the Cane of Corpus is an exploit. I disagree. It's a very hard to get weapon, and you did say you want to experience all the uber weapons, so there: Fairy Ninja, only dude who can wield it; the best weapon in 7 and 8.



Most of my advice is for 6. Also, I am not much of an expert, so try not to trust this to 100%. The party I suggested can use most of the uber-items I remember, except for a few:
The PK Crystal (very good item). You could use a Psionicist instead of a Wizard to be able to use it, but if you iron-man, the Wizard will be far more valuable.
The Forest Cape is Ranger-only, but Rangers are awful in 6 and 7.
Jade Figurine, a "meh" Monk-only item.
The Avenger, the best 1-handed sword, can't be used by the party. That's not a problem because the Samurai gets an equally good Samurai-only sword, the Ninja doesn't need any sword to wreak havoc, and the Valkyrie gets an excellent polearm that even outclasses The Avenger by a good deal, the Maenad's Lance.
The Elven Bow is only usable by elves, and is the best Bow in the game. It also imports to 8, and if you play 8, you might want to have an Elven Ranger in that game so he can automatically search, which makes playing it more comfortable. But you will have to tell me that; if so the party must be changed slightly.


Some of the uber-items are very hard to get. The PK Crystal is a rare drop of a rare monster. The best 2-handed sword in the game, Excalibur, is also a 2% chance drop from a rare monster. The best staff for the Samurai, which isn't as good as the sword he will get to 100%, is also a 2% drop.

However: 6 is a generous game. You will get uber-items in the normal course of the story. You get the best 1-handed sword, the best polearm, the best armor items, the best Samurai equipment, and so on.
 

Binary

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Jasede said:
:( I wrote three times I'd do one of 6 to 8 in September, but I guess, go ahead.

Oh apologies, I was under the impression you were only going to do Wiz6. Definitely, go ahead with Wiz7!
 

Binary

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Zomg said:
I would like get the maximum challenge for the minimum grind; if that's normal without multiclassing, sounds good to me.

The game is much more fun with multiclassing imho. After lvl 12, you should consider multiclassing each char.

My female bard ended as valkyrie, my dwarven fighter as a lord, my faerie rogue as a ninja, my sorcerer was psio and at least one more multi, etc
 

giantgnome

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Apr 15, 2007
Messages
111
Some random thoughts if you're planning on playing through the trilogy.

I never liked multiclassing and generally avoid it, even on hard. If you do change class wait till around level 10. I believe it takes as much experience to go from level 10-11 as it does to gain the first 10 levels. You do lose all the BAB you've gained, though.

If you're playing 6-8 just remember that 8 is a lot different from 6-7. The one-block at a time movement is replaced in 8 by a world you can freely roam around in. Battles in 8 allow your characters to switch between melee when the monsters are in range to ranged attack when they are far off. In 6-7 you're set fighting with whatever you are equiped with, and projecticle weapons generally suck.

Rangers and Thieves suck ass in 6-7, but they kick ass in 8.

Psyonics are worthless in all three.

Lords aren't that great, anything they can do a Valkyrie can do better. Plus Valkyrie's require a lot less experience to level up and in 8 they cheat death, that is instead of dying they get knocked out and a lot of their health back. It happens a lot, so much that I rarely ever worry about healing my Valkyrie in 8. Still sometimes I take a Lord just for the hell of it.

Bards help a lot early on in 6-7. The siren's wail in 8 causes insanity on an entire group of enemies and can be a life saver. They're definitely worth taking but if you do make sure it's a female bard so you can wear the necklace of endurance in 8.

Importing from 6-7 starts you at level 5 (as long as you were at least at level 5) with random attributes and stats from between 0 to somewhere in the 40s, depending on how high your skills were. Each character can keep one super item on their journey to 7 and most plain items (like leather armor, if you have it). Going from 7-8 gives you the ability to level to 5, but you actually get to level up. A lot of the randomness is gone in 8, something I like, but you also don't get to carry any super items over with you. Also importing to 8 follows a 1/5 rule, in that your skills start out, at level 1, at 1/5 of what they ended in 7.
 

Ashaman

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Aug 12, 2008
Messages
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Hi, I am brand new here and was browsing forums to see if I could solve the dilemma in my subject title...
I have just completed Wizardry 6 (loved it btw, completed it when I was 8 and always wanted to go back) and am now trying to import my characters to Wizardry 7. Unfortunately I keep getting a disk error when I use the import command in wiz 7.
My save game files are DBS extensions (I have tried using different names for save games, the one I am using currently is 1savegam.dbs)
My characters have the CF icon by their name in wiz 6 so I know the game is done...
Here is a rundown of what I do

> I use DOSbox and a version of wiz 7 from abandonware
> get the wiz 7 menu
> import (bane)
> some write protection bullshit which I just type nothing into and press enter(word on paragraph 6 of page 82 or something like that)
> I then get the menu to point to my save file: Directory I enter C:\bane\ and filename I enter 1savegam.dbs
> Import and then my disk error comes up

From reading some of the forums, importing characters does not seem to be a problems for some people but I am at a loss for what step I am missing. Thanks a ton for any advice or help offered. If I need to post more info please just tell me and I will post it up. Sorry if this has already been answered in another post, I cannot seem to find the keyword search funtion for this board.
 

Zomg

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Oct 21, 2005
Messages
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What's up with about 2/3rds of the rats in Cosmic Forge being unhittable? I live in fear of walking through a door that will prevent me from fleeing and then encountering a dreaded unhittable rat. I didn't pick a damage spell so that situation is a de facto game over.
 

Ashaman

Novice
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
3
I never even thought of that

The games are in 2 separate folders, when I play bane it is mount c c:\bane for crusaders it is mount c c:\dsavant
 

Ashaman

Novice
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
3
The mounting pointed me to the problem, thanks for the help. Apparently because I was mounting the drive I did not need the entire path to point to that file, the game just took it as the C: drive
 
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Wouldn't you like to know!
sportforredneck said:
Zomg said:
What's up with about 2/3rds of the rats in Cosmic Forge being unhittable?
They are? They shouldn't be, though I suppose it depends on your stats.

This is a sign that you have a bad cracked version of Wiz 6. What you need is the only working (that I know of, on the net) version, which comes from the Wizardry Archive disk.

Google search for DJ Oldgames. There you can find a working version (which I know, because I'm using it right now, as I have no earthly idea where my Wizardry Archive disc is at, at the moment).

The working version will ask you for the "magicword for these icons." Just enter gyberish (ie SOME text). You'll have to do it twice. Ah, the magic of classic copy protection by-passed!

P.S. Long time, no read, Jasede! Once again, you got me wanting to play Wizardry 6/7/8 again, you furry bastard! :)
 
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Fallout_Fan_VII said:
This is a sign that you have a bad cracked version of Wiz 6.
Oh right of course. My head was mixed up, I read Cosmic Forge wrong and thought he was talking about Wizardry 7. No wonder I was so confused.
 

Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
Even with that Oldgame version you might need to enter the magic codewords, which you can find on replacement docs. Sometimes, enterting gibberish just wouldn't work for me.

I wish I still had that Wizardry Archives CD. It also had a great guide for Wizardry 7.
 
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I would always type in Charm, and sometimes it would actually work and then I'd never have to type in the code again unless I exited out of Dosbox. So use charm, or you can type magic missile, but that takes longer.
 
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Wouldn't you like to know!
I've had no problem what so ever just typing in random gibberish with the oldgames' version.

BTW, Jasede, how f-ing long did it take you to roll up a Lizardman Samurai with enough BPs left over to raise STR & VIT to 18? Even with the patch from Cosmic Forge editor, I have yet to roll a bonus higher than 28.

(I'm refering to this recommendation from you, earlier in this thread):
Jasede said:
Lizardman Samurai - 18 STR, 18 VIT, as much DEX as possible
Dwarven Valkyrie - 18 STR, 18 VIT, as much DEX as possible
Fairy Ninja - as much STR as possible
(Female!!) Human Bard - 18 VIT
Gnome Priest - 18 VIT
Fairy Wizard - 18 VIT, as much SPE as possible.
 

Relien

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Fallout_Fan_VII said:
...how f-ing long did it take you to roll up a Lizardman Samurai with enough BPs left over to raise STR & VIT to 18? Even with the patch from Cosmic Forge editor, I have yet to roll a bonus higher than 28.

According to some text file that comes with the CF editor the maximum bonus is 26 in both the original and patched version. So since you need 29 for a lizardman samurai with 18 STR&VIT it should be impossible to roll.

Cosmic Forge said:
The base algorithm both for W6 & W7 is as follows:

Character gets 1d6+4 bonus points (5-10)
If what the character got is less than 9
(S)He gets 1d4+7 bonus points (8-11) 2/3
Otherwise
It is 1/20 that (s)he may gain additional +8 bonus points (13-18) 1/60
It is 1/20 that (s)he may gain additional +8 bonus points (21-26) 1/1200
End

The patched algorithm both for W6 & W7 is as follows:

Character gets 1d19+7 bonus points (8-26)
If what the character got is less than 9
(S)He gets 1d4+7 bonus points (8-11) 1/19
End
 

Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
I was making these numbers from memory.

18 STR and 16 VIT then.

Gosh fellows, I can't remember everything.
 

Zomg

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Got a few levels and past a few puzzles with that party in Bane, and I think I'll restart to play on hard, because I'm not gonna do full blown ironman (mostly because I don't want to have to slow down DosBox every time I want to pick a lock without jamming it) but I still want some challenge. Still won't re-roll level ups.

What am I losing if I modify that party to drop the Faerie Ninja and replace the Human Bard with a Faerie Bard, which I'll class change to Ninja later on? I'd fill in the empty slot with another dwarf Valkyrie so I can have one second rank spear Valkyrie and one first rank sword Valkyrie.
 

Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
You'll lose the ability to use music instruments after the FAE BAR changes to FAE NIN. In Wizardry 6 and 7, only bards can use instruments; it doesn't matter if they have the music skill. Exception: Wizardry 8.

Of course these instruments are only really important in the beginning of Expert mode; they lose their worth past midgame for the most part. And in 8, the Gadgeteer is better than the Bard; at least his "instruments" are.

I really wouldn't play Expert on my first time through. It's tough in 6 (all the bosses come in pairs of two!) and nigh-impossible at the start of 7. But suit yourself.

The more valkyries the better. 1 for the Maenad's Lance, another for The Avenger or Excalibur.

I have a better idea for you: keep the party as is, but instead of a human bard, start with a dwarven bard. Make her a valkyrie by multiclassing.
 

Zomg

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The idea is that the Faerie Ninja has terrible HP. If I multiclass it from a bard with 18 vit I think it would be a nice hp boost and ninjas have such high stat minimums that I lose a lot less stat firepower from the statistic reset. What's Bard->Valk getting me? Are ninjas much stronger earlier on?

Also it seems using an offhand dagger with a valk doesn't get me an extra attack like using a wakizashi with a samurai. What's wrong there?
 

Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
Valkyries gain swings/attacks slower. That's why they are basically made for using 2-handed weapons: big swords and polearms.

Yes, 18 VIT bard->ninja would fix the bad somewhat HP, though I never really had a problem. Fairy Ninjas have such high resists and AC that they never get hit anyway; and they can hide too.

Go that if you like. It's your party. There's nothing inherently wrong with it; I was just giving suggestions.
 

Zomg

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How can you hold these autistic spreadsheet games in such esteem and then not have intensely specific opinions about synergies and breakpoints and whatever? :P
 

giantgnome

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I'd stick with the faerie ninja. Every level ninjas and monks drop in ac. Faeries also get a natural ac bonus. So now, with a level 15 Faerie ninja she has -8 ac except her hands are -5. All this with the starting equipment. My lord with ebony and mantis armor has -4. She also gets up to 16 attacks per round, and if you keep adding to kirijutsu the ability to instantly kill opponents. I've added more to alchemy with her, for using the occasionally blinding flash, which makes opponents incredibly vulnerable, or fire bombs for group damage.
 

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