Ultima The Ultima Underworld I & II Thread

[Zer0wing]

I replayed UU1 and UU2 a few years ago and really enjoyed both but UU1 is the superior game. UU2 has some nice moments I really like how the garden turns to crap in the castle without sunlight and how all the food in the castle starts going bad the more time you play. I really liked the sewers in UU2 and the Tomb world the most but overall it is much weaker the UU1.

I find the diverse worlds that are available in UU2 no less exciting than coherent open to explore world of UU1. Thing is, these games are the opposite of each other, yet still both are great.

 

[Raskens]

I remember playing UU2, and l went through the

Spoiler

mage school before I could interact with the pentagram, and I didn't have the means to teleport back (I think a rock was needed).

When I later in the game realised that I had to go through that section again I just quit the game. Beyond that I found the game good, but inferior to UU1.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Understandable, having to trek through the Mage School Trials a second-time is a major turn-off, even if some of the trials have been previously dealt with.

That is also one of the reasons why UUW2 is (IMO) inferior to UUW1. The Stygian Abyss is only linear in one manner: Each floor comes after the other, except for needing to ascend and descend them one at a time (which I believe to be an engine restriction) players are free to tackle each floor as they see fit - though obviously it's best to start at the top and work your way down. Imagine how better the flow of UUW1 would have been if the Grand Staircase in the north hadn't collapsed. By comparison The Labyrinth of Worlds is very linear. First there's only Castle Britannia and the sewers, but then the nexus point is reached... but only one world can be accessed there. Only after having 'cleared' that do the next two open up. They then need to be 'cleared' up to a point so that the next three open up, and then that again for the final two. Players can't just fast-track over to the eighth world to see the sights there, they have to slog through the others first.

I like the variety offered by the eight worlds of UUW2, but they clearly differ in qualities. UUW1's level of quality is consistently high throughout (except perhaps for that silly Pac-Man maze) but UUW2 is all over the place.

I feel very similar about UUW1 and UUW2 as I do about Thief 1 and Thief 2 and EotB1 and EotB2: The sequel has the better engine and plays smoother, but the original is the better game.

 

[Cael]

For those that don't know about the bug in UU2, spoilered below:

Spoiler

At some stage, the castle servants go on a strike because of "working conditions". Note that this is a medieval game with a medieval king (despite being a pretty benevolent and hapless one) who is not only having a bit on the side with the serving girl (who is cheating on him) but actually has a will naming her soon-to-be kid as his heir. The nanny goes on a rant about the worker class, etc. All the usual leftard union stuff.

If you don't resolve it, you will come back to a castle where no one is able to work because they are hungry. Your closest companions, which includes Iolo and Dupre, who have been wandering the wilderness with you for months on end, are incapable of cooking at all without the servants. Yeah, the Avatar has an assload of servants trailing behind him when he goes on a quest to save Britannia the last 3 times. Thing is, since they can't work, you can't get any training, which by that time, shouldn't really be a problem. The problem is one of the characters (Nystul, IIRC) can't do his thing, which is vital to the main quest. You can't complete the game without him doing something and he won't because of the strike.

The bug? The conversation to resolve the strike (in the servant's favour, of course, because fucking spector) disappears after a while (IIRC it is when you go back through the gem and complete the next segment). So unless you have a save from before the strike, you are fucked. Restart the game.

The thing is: the whole scenario is completely pointless and doesn't add to the game at all. It is just fucking spector waving his cock around, just like he did in U7:2 when his expy goes on what is essentially a pro-communism rant. This is something that fucking spector does in real life, not just in games he's touched. There is no mistaking his hand in the whole thing.

 

[octavius]

I was so innocent back when I played UU2, when the most offensive thing I saw in the game was Charles' p. banal haircut.

 

[RK47]

I see what you did there.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

At some stage, the castle servants go on a strike because of "working conditions". Note that this is a medieval game with a medieval king (despite being a pretty benevolent and hapless one) who is not only having a bit on the side with the serving girl (who is cheating on him) but actually has a will naming her soon-to-be kid as his heir. The nanny goes on a rant about the worker class, etc. All the usual leftard union stuff.

If you don't resolve it, you will come back to a castle where no one is able to work because they are hungry. Your closest companions, which includes Iolo and Dupre, who have been wandering the wilderness with you for months on end, are incapable of cooking at all without the servants. Yeah, the Avatar has an assload of servants trailing behind him when he goes on a quest to save Britannia the last 3 times. Thing is, since they can't work, you can't get any training, which by that time, shouldn't really be a problem. The problem is one of the characters (Nystul, IIRC) can't do his thing, which is vital to the main quest. You can't complete the game without him doing something and he won't because of the strike.

The bug? The conversation to resolve the strike (in the servant's favour, of course, because fucking spector) disappears after a while (IIRC it is when you go back through the gem and complete the next segment). So unless you have a save from before the strike, you are fucked. Restart the game.

The thing is: the whole scenario is completely pointless and doesn't add to the game at all. It is just fucking spector waving his cock around, just like he did in U7:2 when his expy goes on what is essentially a pro-communism rant. This is something that fucking spector does in real life, not just in games he's touched. There is no mistaking his hand in the whole thing.

I can't say with 100% certainty that you're wrong, but the odds are still high.

Yes, that segment is in the game and it's almost completely pointless. Why it's there I have no idea and I don't really care either, save for Britannia constantly having been a springboard for modern ideas being introduced to allow players to see the reactions of the common folk (see: Discworld)

It's how the bug manifests that I disagree with. For me personally and everyone who has mentioned this bug, the problem was that everyone told the Avatar to go take up the worker's strike with Lord British, and when done he would take time to ponder the matter and reach a conclusion where he declares in the worker's favor. This would take some time in-game, enough so that the Avatar might as well run off and visit another world. The bug was that LB would get stuck in his "ponder the matter"-stage forever, so that while everyone in the castle would behave as normal, the plot wouldn't advance to the endgame. Turns out that resolving this matter is one of the plot triggers for Mors Gotha to appear in Killorn Keep... and she has a plot-vital item needed to beat the game. No Gotha = No Win.

 

[V_K]

Your closest companions, which includes Iolo and Dupre, who have been wandering the wilderness with you for months on end, are incapable of cooking at all without the servants.

That's completely in line with Ultima 7 though, where they'll keep whining incessantly for you to feed them.

 

[darthaegis]

After trying several times to play UU1 with the default controls and giving up, I saw someone posting a WASD+mouselook hack a few pages ago and ended up playing both games back to back (I also set up Munt to get CM-32L music). I love the mostly lonely single-dungeon crawl of UU1 (even though the mouselook hack does make it too easy). Large maps that give you a lot of freedom where to go (especially when you get to cast Waterwalk and later Fly), a very "dungeon adventure simulator" feel (your character feels very weighty in a pretty satisfying way, bouncing off walls and taking damage when you jump into them, hunger and exhaustion increasing in real time, weapons breaking apart and making you fiddle with the inventory as you're being attacked)... it's great.

UU2 was disappointing after that though: it starts in a cozy bedroom and a castle full of people to talk to, which is a far cry from the "alone in a dangerous place" feel of UU1. Sure, UU1 has many settlements with people you can talk to, but you're still hundreds of feet below ground, surrounded by lava and monsters. None of the eight planes feels super fleshed out as well: I can't really think of any single level of any plane that's as large and nonlinear as a level of the Stygian Abyss. It's a good game, but it ends up feeling a bit unfocused and underwhelming.

 

[vota DC]

Yeah I agree. Level 1 you start in the middle of a battle site surrounded by skeletons and also you learn that goblins won the battle and outcasts are friendly but a little clueless (Bragit has very good information for being the first NPC, but his leader doesn't even know what is under level 2!). Outcasts offer you to stay with them and you can even answer "perhaps for a while".
Also peril isn't overhyped: they say that as long you stay in main tunnels and near Cabirus flag you have just to fear some rogue goblins, while they warn when you go in really dangerous zone like to the gazer.

 

[xuerebx]

So, in my current 2020 quest to play early 90s RPGs, I've just started playing UU1. Have some questions if anyone could help out in answering.

1) I'm playing as a Druid and I've levelled up but was not able to choose any new skills or improve current skills. If I remember correctly what the manual said, I need to visit shrines?

2) Is there a way to know the stats of a weapon or armour? How will I know if a cudgel is better than a sword?

3) There isn't any quest journal right? All I know is that I was put in this dungeon to save the daughter of the baron (?) for a crime I don't think I committed. The reason that I'm not so sure is because I could barely make out the introduction video due to terrible sound output.

4) There's this "Underworld Exporter" mod where you play the game in Unity (I guess similar to Daggerfall Unity). Is it recommended? I don't mind gameplay changes if they just make the controls more intuitive.

Thanks!

Don't know if this was posted before, but apparently someone has hacked mouse look and WASD control scheme (among other small things) into UW1 and UW2. Didn't have the chance to test it, though, so I don't know how well it works, if someone here tested it or has the chance to do it before me, please post some impressions ...

https://github.com/JohnGlassmyer/UltimaHacks

Thanks for this! I'll try it out tonight. The one thing which I cannot get used to are the non-WASD controls so this should help.

 

[Elwro]

Play the original, not the unity thing!

And for levelling, yes, you need to find yourself a shrine.

Don't worry about the plot yet. Explore. Meet people. Talk!

 

[octavius]

1. Yes. Some shrines teach specific skills, while others are more general and IIRC teach a random skill in a skill category or spread a few points around.

2. Not in-game. But they will have suffixes like "of unsurpassed damage" and such. You'll just have to try different weapons. Weapon quality is also very important, so keep them in good shape.

 

[V_K]

Quest journal. Right. In a dungeon crawler. Do you need a quest compass too?

 

[xuerebx]

Thanks Elwro and Octavius for your comments

Quest journal. Right. In a dungeon crawler. Do you need a quest compass too?

What the hell's funny about that? In Might and Magic III you get a list of objectives in a journal. Don't be a smartass with your quest compass comment - that wasn't my question. Other dungeon crawlers (Daggerfall could be considered as one, in my opinion) make use of a journal to keep tabs on what to do anyway so for me it's a legit question.

 

[octavius]

I suggest screen capping all dialogue, and annotate anything interesting on the map.

 

[Elwro]

Yeah. It's easy to miss stuff.

For technical reasons, I suggest making a backup of your save before entering a new level for the first time.

 

[xuerebx]

Re. annotating - it's what I'm doing in fact. In Wizardry 8 I used to put comments everywhere on the map, and then when I went back to MMIII I found it infuriating that I couldn't annotate the map (I did go 10 years in the past though :D ).

I'll back up save games as well - I guess that's due to the inventory bug I was reading about?

 

[Elwro]

I'll back up save games as well - I guess that's due to the inventory bug I was reading about?

Yes. But there's also one deep-level thing that I vaguely recall which may render your game unfinishable. I forgot the details and the issue was rare. Maybe it's nothing to worry about, sorry...

(I think in very unlucky circumstances one important NPC could die in lava or something)

 

[Cael]

So, in my current 2020 quest to play early 90s RPGs, I've just started playing UU1. Have some questions if anyone could help out in answering.

1) I'm playing as a Druid and I've levelled up but was not able to choose any new skills or improve current skills. If I remember correctly what the manual said, I need to visit shrines?

2) Is there a way to know the stats of a weapon or armour? How will I know if a cudgel is better than a sword?

3) There isn't any quest journal right? All I know is that I was put in this dungeon to save the daughter of the baron (?) for a crime I don't think I committed. The reason that I'm not so sure is because I could barely make out the introduction video due to terrible sound output.

4) There's this "Underworld Exporter" mod where you play the game in Unity (I guess similar to Daggerfall Unity). Is it recommended? I don't mind gameplay changes if they just make the controls more intuitive.

Thanks!

1. Yes, find shrines. You will also need the mantras.

2. The manual tells you the basic weapon tiers. However, there is no way to tell if a Longsword of Damage is better than a bog standard Broadsword other than fight with them and go with your gut feeling.

Spoiler

For more indepth info: Here.

3. No, there isn't.

 

[Cael]

I'll back up save games as well - I guess that's due to the inventory bug I was reading about?

Yes. But there's also one deep-level thing that I vaguely recall which may render your game unfinishable. I forgot the details and the issue was rare. Maybe it's nothing to worry about, sorry...

(I think in very unlucky circumstances one important NPC could die in lava or something)

Level 5. One of the mages lurks near the lava. She is vital to the completion of the game. However, I can't remember if she drops the item you need if she goes swimming in lava or not. I am under the impression that she does, for some reason. I seem to recall the item floating on the lava near where she normally lurks and she was nowhere in sight during one of my runs.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

2) Is there a way to know the stats of a weapon or armour? How will I know if a cudgel is better than a sword?

The Underworld games play very loosely with weapon stats, but the manual (pg 23 for UUW1, pg25 for UUW2) has some info on them.

 

[xuerebx]

Thank you all (and cheers for the Wiki link on the weapons/armour stats)! Fingers crossed that mage doesn't go swimming in lava in my game

 

[Cael]

Thank you all (and cheers for the Wiki link on the weapons/armour stats)! Fingers crossed that mage doesn't go swimming in lava in my game

She has been known to do a Jesus thing on lava as well, so even if she does, pray she does the Jesus thing instead.

She is on level 5, by the way. Sorry, my memory was faulty in the previous post.

 

[Arrowgrab]

1. Yes. Some shrines teach specific skills, while others are more general and IIRC teach a random skill in a skill category or spread a few points around.

That's not quite correct. First you need to find some mantras (a few are written on the walls at the first shrine you're likely to find, you can find others elsewhere). Then you go to a shrine, any shrine, and invoke a mantra of your choice. The effect only depends on the mantra (some spread around skill points among several skills, others give you a more focused boost to a single skill). It doesn't matter which shrine you use.