Ultima The Ultima Series Discussion Thread

[Jaesun]

The ONE thing Ultima IX got right, was the shrines were now all completely abandoned.

 

[PeachPlumage]

Basically yes.

Cool.

 

[Jarpie]

Wasn't the fellowship very thinly weilled take on scientology, or am I mistaken?

 

[Daemongar]

Wasn't the fellowship very thinly weilled take on scientology, or am I mistaken?

Not sure, but if you are interested in a glimpse of LB's take on religion, look in the gypsy wagon in U9.

 

[Neanderthal]

Nah, I kind of think the above is embellishment. The first Fellowship member with an actual backstory after meeting about 10 is the Fish and Chips vendor in Britain, and ok, Merrick in Paws (who again isn't evil, nor was in his previous life. He just hated starving.) You hear and observe evil acts by members, but there is another factor:
There were those generators that messed up magic, trapped the time lord, and manipulation of citizens. Those people were not evil, and it wasn't the religion, but the Guardians evil influence.

But the Fellowship didn't make him evil, or a shitty shipwright. But I was wrong: Owen turned to alcohol after feeling guilt over the deaths and after he had joined the Fellowship. The Fellowship propped him up, but there really isn't a mention of him blaming others for his own ineptitude. See : http://wiki.ultimacodex.com/wiki/Owen - those guys have a good faq. The "inner voice" made him confident, not the Fellowship.

Not really. Owen blames himself. Peterson eventually accepts responsibility and makes up with his wife (But he's an agent of the Guardian, so again, he's different.) Also, the shrines fell to disrepair because of the Gargoyles capturing them in Ultima 6, don't know if they were ever restored. In fact, they aren't until U9.

Also, my Complete Book of Ultima only goes up to Ultima VI, so I don't have the inside scoop on LB's opinion on The Fellowship

The Guardian doesn't earmark many people to hear his voice, this is stated repeatedly ingame, he simply wouldn't have the time to talk to every Fellowship member in Britannia. No I agree the people weren't evil they were weak and in a time of crisis fell back on the easy answers that the Fellowship provided, blaming non members and excusing their own behaviour. It wasn't the Guardians evil influence, they were simply misguided, and the Fellowship allowed them to hide their failings behind a mask of righteousness. When you destroy the Cube Generator they do not become different people, they remain the same.

Owyn was about to quit his trade in shame when he joined the Fellowship, they propped him up and let him excuse his failings as Elynor states, and though he does hear the Guardians voice and this can't be discounted, he is one of few, and the local Fellowship branch support him in everything he does to prop up his ego. Especially in building the monument to him. Owyn blames others when you face him with the facts, and that is the standard practise that the Triad "Strive for Unity" teaching is actually prejudicial to those who are not members of the Fellowship.

Read Alagners notebook on the Fellowship and it states this quite plainly, it is also demonstrated in the game repeatedly with members stating they were held back by others, and better than them. It's also self evident when listening to their philosophy.

The Shrines were not ruined by the Gargoyles, they did not hold them for long due to the Avatar ending that war and freeing and restoring the Shrines as part of that adventure. Even so they are not part of an organised religion, do not have priests and are all personal places for the individual rather than public places of worship like the Fellowship branches with their branch leaders. Their abandonment after these two centuries of the Avatars non appearance just shows that they are not needed, and not an essential part of living by the Virtues as it is a personal matter, and there are still many virtuous people who do not need the Shrines.

Lord British states his opinion quite clearly ingame, he approves of their many good acts and sees them as generally a force for good in the land, this changes as you reveal more about them and their conduct.

 

[Infinitron]

Cool: http://ultimacodex.com/2015/10/check-out-the-ultima-7-party-planner/

Check Out the Ultima 7 Party Planner
BY WTF DRAGON · OCTOBER 28, 2015

So this is a neat thing. Deplicator has put together a web application that allows you to plan out how to train your party members in Ultima 7: The Black Gate. The instructions for using it are as follows:


Choose Party Member
When you choose a party member from the drop down they are automatically added to the party (see Current Party below). New members will have the same stats they start with in the game.

Party Member Stats
Directly below Choose Party Member is the chosen party member’s current stats. They can be manually manipulated with the + and – buttons on either side of the stat, or they can be typed in. Stats will be saved for each party member until the reset button is pressed or the page is reloaded. The reset button only effects the displayed member.

Current Party
This box shows who you have selected to be in the party. Clicking on a member will change the main view back to that member. Right clicking will dismiss them.

Accidentally dismissing a party member does not reset their training and stats. They can be added back by selecting them again in the Choose Party Member drop-down.

Select Trainers
If the party member has sufficient training points, clicking on a trainer will update the member stats to reflect training with that trainer. You can click on the same trainer multiple times. Right clicking will undo the training. Undoing the training from a trainer will undo subsequent trains made (for example if you choose to train with Markus then with Lucky, and then untrain with Markus, both trainers will be undone).

As you select trainers the Trainer Checklist and Map sections will populate automatically.

Source code for the party planner is also available.

 

[almondblight]

It's possible to play in on a Mac emulator, I did it like 10 years ago or so, although I can't for the life of me remember how to set the emulator up.
The game is actually very good, combining some of the features of 7 (general look and feel), 5 (two-scale map) and UW (skills).

Do you remember where you got the key from?

 

[V_K]

Do you remember where you got the key from?

eDonkey, I think.
The devs still sell it though.

 

[Eirikur]

On March 31st of 1998, I casually posted about having found a 'Key of the Caretaker' on the forum of my Ultima Online guild. I said it was probably a junk item, and asked if anyone had a use for it. Then I went to sleep. The next day I ignored all the replies and PMs, and casually posted 'Nvm, I've traded it for a few scrolls from a fool member of <enemy guild>'. Still have some fond memories of all the butthurt that ensued from that April 1st prank.

 

[Daemongar]

Lord British states his opinion quite clearly ingame, he approves of their many good acts and sees them as generally a force for good in the land, this changes as you reveal more about them and their conduct.

I think I'll need to replay this with a focus on discerning the truth. It could be you are applying more real world religion problems to the Fellowship and using it as proof of real world religion problems. On the other hand, I could be full of shit. I'll need to play this and find out.

My latest save is right around those damn Emps, and I can never remember how to trigger them to talk to me. I always go back to Cove, then go to Yew, neither help. Then I go to... a lumberjack or something, but someone tells me to talk to a lumberjack. Dammit. Think I need to read a grave... or something. Ah, I always hate this part.

 

[Neanderthal]

Empath Abbey and talk to Brother I forget his name, then Bee Cave to collect honey (use a smoke bomb if you wanna be peaceful) then back to Emps, they'll talk to you if you have honey, walk right up and ask for it.

Not got nowt against religion, does a lotta good sometimes and was a source of knowledge in old days. Just got problems same as owt else.

 

[Comte]

In a way the Fellowship is very much like the Church of Scientology. The Church of Scientology started infiltrating the US government in the 1970's as well as other world governments and agencies such as Interpol. They wanted to get favorable tax terms and purge negative documents and reports that criticized the church. The Fellowship in Britannia is busy infiltrating the government of Britannia taking mayor's offices, positions of power in the industries of Brittania sitting in the government council of Lord British etc. Using the government of Brittania to further their own ends. Scientology had an office that handled particular heretics, notable defectors, and individuals deemed enemies of the organization called the Guardians Office. It seems like the writers who used the Fellowship as an allegory of Scientology had some knowledge of how the organization worked.

I have a couple of Wikipedia links if anybody is interested.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Special_Affairs

 

[Unkillable Cat]

The Fellowship may be a jab at Scientology, but Elizabeth and Abraham, plus the three blackrock generators, are a clear stab at Electronic Arts.

The irony was that EA bought Origin just a few months after the release of Ultima 7.

 

[Daemongar]

Using the government of Brittania to further their own ends. Scientology had an office that handled particular heretics, notable defectors, and individuals deemed enemies of the organization called the Guardians Office. It seems like the writers who used the Fellowship as an allegory of Scientology had some knowledge of how the organization worked.

This I never heard of this before. Interesting stuff, and now a lot makes sense. Wonder if there is a Scientology = EA link...

 

[Jarpie]

This I never heard of this before. Interesting stuff, and now a lot makes sense. Wonder if there is a Scientology = EA link...

Well two of the baddies are called Elizabeth and Abraham...

 

[taxalot]

So it could be also a stab at jews ?

 

[Excommunicator]

Well fellowship membership did bring you unlimited money in the gambling den




And can't forget those fellowship candles that they had in every branch

 

[Jaesun]

Apparently you cannot count?

 

[a Goat]

Nah he's just shit at jew lore unlike me.

 

[Excommunicator]

Jaesun, Sheep: lighten the fuck up

 

[Junmarko]

The Fellowship may be a jab at Scientology, but Elizabeth and Abraham, plus the three blackrock generators, are a clear stab at Electronic Arts.

The irony was that EA bought Origin just a few months after the release of Ultima 7.

I remember reading a really good article on this:
https://casualaggro.wordpress.com/2...reference-to-how-terrible-electronic-arts-is/

 

[Infinitron]

Ultima IX found a certain audience among the kind of Ultima fan who had disengaged entirely from playing single player RPGs after U8 and spent the rest of the 1990s playing narrative-lite games - thereby missing the memo that RPGs had become a genre with high narrative expectations.

Hah, speak of the devil (from September, but linked on Ultima Codex today): http://www.coqdiddles.com/2015/09/11/life-bytes-ultima-9-edition/

"Origin had to make Ultima IX with a story for ten year olds because everybody was playing Quake and Unreal! Weren't you?"

 

[Unkillable Cat]

"Origin had to make Ultima IX with a story for ten year olds because everybody was playing Quake and Unreal! Weren't you?"

 

[Infinitron]

Yeah, now have fun reading this: http://ultimacodex.com/sword-and-shield/topic/in-defense-of-ultima-9/

(This was a real blast for the past for me, I had a lot of discussions like this with him in the year before I joined RPG Codex.)

 

[Malignant Manor]

I got U9 as an added bonus from Ultima Online 7th Anniversary. As a dungeon crawl game, I was mainly disappointed with the combat, game ending bugs, and crashes. The story was problematic and the fan story rewrite wasn't good either. It wasn't terribly bad except for when I had to work around the game ending bugs.