Ultima The Ultima Series Discussion Thread

[Joined on the 4th of July]

Does Savage Empire or Martian Dreams have interesting combat mechanics and/or encounters? Compared to the general level of the series naturally. I don't want to be too unreasonable.

 

[Infinitron]

Combat is a complete afterthought in Martian Dreams. In Savage Empire the Myrmidex are tough and you will need to kit yourself up to face them, but it's not really a combat-centric game either. On the other hand, these are (almost) the only Ultima games where you get to shoot enemies with guns.

 

[Joined on the 4th of July]

Combat is a complete afterthought in Martian Dreams. In Savage Empire the Myrmidex are tough and you will need to kit yourself up to face them, but it's not really a combat-centric game either. On the other hand, these are (almost) the only Ultima games where you get to shoot enemies with guns.

Yeah, they are Ultimas, so I know not to expect any kind of great combat. Tough enemies that require some gearing up sounds pretty good actually.

 

[pjs]

(Re)played Ultima 4-7. Read 15 last pages of this thread. A few comments.

Ultima 4 (VGA/enhanced version on ScummVM):
- I hadn't played this before.
- Combat and random encounters excessively tedious. Seems to be take usually the longest time to complete by far.
- Didn't actually finish it, because Scumm accidentally enabled all items (there's some bug when switching the windows where it interprets all keyboard presses as alt-[character typed] presses) and other cheats and I didn't feel interested in retrying from a save a couple of hours back in the time. I had completed a couple of dungeons to get the stones and done 3/8 avatar quests. So still quite a bit of game left to go if/when I feel like it.

Ultima 5:
- Played once or twice before, but never completed for some reason.
- Getting XP is very slow even though I did at least a couple of hours of grinding with bridge trolls. I imported an Avatar from U4, which resulted in 999 xp (level 5) character. Didn't even reach level 6 before reaching the final Abyss dungeon (= just barely obtained 600 xp in-game, when L8 requires 6400 xp total), and the companions were also only level 3 and 4. I wonder what others did to get their levels up. At least a couple of Long Play vids on YouTube appeared to have had the same problem but sometime before the end hex-edited the characters up to level 8.
- As a result, the final rooms in level 7 and 8 (starting with the sandtrap room) of the Abyss were excessively difficult (the assumption seems to be that you go there as level 8 so have access to resurrect, time stop, etc.). On the other hand, if you kill your companions before the battle, it becomes easy (speedrun style), because time stop scrolls are broken (they give you X amount of turns but each turn for each of your characters consumes one) - so if you just have one character, you can just run through the rooms with one time stop.

Ultima 6 (ScummVM=nuvie enhanced edition):
- Played through a couple of times before, the first time 30 years ago in 1990's.
- Getting XP and grinding up the money is very easy, especially with the one party of cyclops/headless camping in the sewers of Britannia. If you wouldn't grind like this, the startup would probably be more interesting and challenging - even deadly at times (even got killed a couple of times by mongbats etc. at the junction west of Britain, or when clearing up altars if you're no careful)
- The best combat mechanic (due to AI-assist not getting too tedious like U4 and U5, and you can actually do something, in contrast to U7). However there seem to be some bugs (not sure if ScummVM or original), e.g. backline fighters with ASSAULT combat mode (= should always be attacking) in most combats just sat back and did nothing. In particular this happened many times in outdoor battles. I suspect this has something to do with the fact that they were too far back and AI didn't "see" any monsters, because in battles where the enemies were next to you it seemed to work fine.
- No longer very difficult dungeon mazes or puzzles like in some U5 dungeons. IMO, this was a good thing for playability.
- Looking forward to U6 in Exult remake, hopefully it gets released at some point.
- (Way back then I also played Savage Empire and liked it like U6.)

Ultima 7 (Exult)
- Played through 1-2 times before, the first time when released way back. First time completed Forge of Virtue.
- Again, rather easy to level up (maybe the easiest of them all). No longer "haul back and sell everything" like U5/U6, so the money economy worked much better and you needed to think a little how you find and spend your money (at times I was also almost out of money and had difficulty feeding the poor companions) - in parts because I didn't use (much) the "move stuff to companion's backpack isn't really stealing" strategy.
- Dumbed-down combat mechanic because it's almost completely just "turn on/off fight mode". Not a major problem, because the dialogue and other aspects of the game was more interesting. I also liked the dialogue system best, because you couldn't get shortcuts by typing in the words you want to talk about - the option to ask about X opens only after you have talked to one person referring to to another. They could have taken even more advantage of this.
- Not a very lengthy game to finish if you cut the corners and don't roleplay it (the same could be said of Ultima 6 if you skipped e.g. getting map fragments).
- Exult engine has a feature to increase or decrease the difficulty level. I wonder if it would be more interesting to try with cranked-up difficulty, which might require a bit more planning. Too bad this only affects combat which is pretty much unmanageable in the first place. When it gets more difficult to hit monsters, you may need to plan better how you manage your character's attributes (dex/str) and what kind of weapons you give them to maximize this.

All Ultimas 4-7 had in their own ways at least somewhat interesting backstory or plot. I liked U6 best, maybe due to nostalgia. The grimdark aspect of the plot of U5 and U7 were also appealing. I suppose this has always been one of the strengths of Ultima games.

I have never played Ultima 7 Serpent Isle. Most of the games above have been more or less spoiled by looking at (sooner or later) walkthroughs etc. I'll probably try to do a "blind" run of U7SI at some point. The discovery and exploration part is probably going to be much more fun that way, now that there is no particular rush to be done with it. I suppose U4 and U5 would have been very difficult if you didn't use any external hints or information because you were liable to miss crucial information unless you were very careful and insistent in the dialogues.

 

[ShaggyMoose]

Highly recommend U7 SI; at least as good as Black Gate, probably more interesting exploration overall. Hang on to furs; you will thank me later

 

[Tweed]

(Re)played Ultima 4-7. Read 15 last pages of this thread. A few comments.

Ultima 4 (VGA/enhanced version on ScummVM):
- I hadn't played this before.
- Combat and random encounters excessively tedious. Seems to be take usually the longest time to complete by far.
- Didn't actually finish it, because Scumm accidentally enabled all items (there's some bug when switching the windows where it interprets all keyboard presses as alt-[character typed] presses) and other cheats and I didn't feel interested in retrying from a save a couple of hours back in the time. I had completed a couple of dungeons to get the stones and done 3/8 avatar quests. So still quite a bit of game left to go if/when I feel like it.

That's okay, it's not as great as everyone makes it out to be.

Ultima 5:
- Played once or twice before, but never completed for some reason.
- Getting XP is very slow even though I did at least a couple of hours of grinding with bridge trolls. I imported an Avatar from U4, which resulted in 999 xp (level 5) character. Didn't even reach level 6 before reaching the final Abyss dungeon (= just barely obtained 600 xp in-game, when L8 requires 6400 xp total), and the companions were also only level 3 and 4. I wonder what others did to get their levels up. At least a couple of Long Play vids on YouTube appeared to have had the same problem but sometime before the end hex-edited the characters up to level 8.
- As a result, the final rooms in level 7 and 8 (starting with the sandtrap room) of the Abyss were excessively difficult (the assumption seems to be that you go there as level 8 so have access to resurrect, time stop, etc.). On the other hand, if you kill your companions before the battle, it becomes easy (speedrun style), because time stop scrolls are broken (they give you X amount of turns but each turn for each of your characters consumes one) - so if you just have one character, you can just run through the rooms with one time stop.

The easiest way to get XP is to raid Castle British for rings and loot, get magical axes, and then head to Shame. There's a room in there with a wizard and a bunch of demons, but if they can't see you they can't attack you and for some reason when you're invisible you can kill stuff really easily. Just kill all but one of them and then come back.

I have never played Ultima 7 Serpent Isle. Most of the games above have been more or less spoiled by looking at (sooner or later) walkthroughs etc. I'll probably try to do a "blind" run of U7SI at some point. The discovery and exploration part is probably going to be much more fun that way, now that there is no particular rush to be done with it. I suppose U4 and U5 would have been very difficult if you didn't use any external hints or information because you were liable to miss crucial information unless you were very careful and insistent in the dialogues.

Serpent Isle is completely linear compared to Ultima 7 so it's pretty hard to get stuck.

 

[Bruma Hobo]

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Ultima IV.

 

[Excommunicator]

(Re)played Ultima 4-7. Read 15 last pages of this thread. A few comments.

Serpent Isle is completely linear compared to Ultima 7 so it's pretty hard to get stuck.

Very unfair statement.

Serpent isle has vast open areas that unlock for you to explore freely. It's the unlocking of one area to the next that happens in a set way.

It's practically free-form compared to a lot of more recent games

 

[Cael]

Serpent Isle is less open world than Black Gate, but it is more coherent story-wise because of those gated areas.

 

[ShaggyMoose]

I managed to get stuck in Serpent Isle at the point you need to head north for a long time. Don't even recall what I missed, but that never happened in Black Gate.

 

[Ladonna]

I suppose U4 and U5 would have been very difficult if you didn't use any external hints or information because you were liable to miss crucial information unless you were very careful and insistent in the dialogues.

My first (and for Ultima IV, only) copies on C64 were pirated. I had no manuals or maps. I had to map both games, including the worlds, which was actually pretty fun. I had to learn all spells reagent combos, keystrokes, etc by trial and error. In UV I had to learn how to decipher the rune language, which I did by using my Ultima IV notes, where the mantra's for the virtues were written in English, but in Ultima V were given in runes. Eventually I had the entire runic alphabet worked out and written down. With spells, Ultima IV had them done by keystrokes eg; F = Fireball, I = Iceball and so on, so I worked out most of the Ultima V spells again using my Ultima IV notes. Looking back, I actually preferred doing it this way, even though it took a LOT of time to do it.

I ended up a buying a new C64 copy of Ultima V about a year later, and finished it again.

 

[Cael]

U5 wasn't that hard. U4 was a bit obscure in some things. I found 5 to be pretty straightforward. The only real issue were some of the damned dungeons having endless corridors, which is a lazy way of making dungeons.

I actually finished 5 before 4.

Sometimes, though, I wonder if I found 5 easier simply because I was older and more experienced whereas I played 4 when I was a 7 year old kid.

 

[ShaggyMoose]

My first (and for Ultima IV, only) copies on C64 were pirated. I had no manuals or maps. I had to map both games, including the worlds, which was actually pretty fun. I had to learn all spells reagent combos, keystrokes, etc by trial and error. In UV I had to learn how to decipher the rune language, which I did by using my Ultima IV notes, where the mantra's for the virtues were written in English, but in Ultima V were given in runes. Eventually I had the entire runic alphabet worked out and written down. With spells, Ultima IV had them done by keystrokes eg; F = Fireball, I = Iceball and so on, so I worked out most of the Ultima V spells again using my Ultima IV notes. Looking back, I actually preferred doing it this way, even though it took a LOT of time to do it.

I ended up a buying a new C64 copy of Ultima V about a year later, and finished it again.

I did the same thing with the spells in Dungeon Master spells on the Amiga. It was actually quite satisfying. I never did buy a copy of the game though...

 

[octavius]

I think I did the same in U4, only I got some help from my gaming buddy who provided me with a copy from an alternative distributor.

In DM, I think you were supposed to experiment, and there's some scrolls with spell "recipes" in the game. I don't think the spells are listed in the manual?

 

[Ladonna]

In DM, I think you were supposed to experiment, and there's some scrolls with spell "recipes" in the game. I don't think the spells are listed in the manual?

No, only the meaning of the symbols. Most necessary spells are found on scrolls as you say, but apart from that, it is up to you to discover them.

 

[ShaggyMoose]

Yes, it was the meaning of the symbols that I had to decipher. Great magic system in that game.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

In DM, I think you were supposed to experiment, and there's some scrolls with spell "recipes" in the game. I don't think the spells are listed in the manual?

No, only the meaning of the symbols. Most necessary spells are found on scrolls as you say, but apart from that, it is up to you to discover them.

IIRC, the only spell in Dungeon Master without a corresponding scroll is the poison potion spell, although the player can guess at it after discovering poison (ven) potions.

 

[pjs]

Finished also U7SI. Very interesting design choices with a much more linear plot than before, i.e. new areas open up only after you have completed certain actions in the previous ones. Too bad the original game and exult had some crippling bugs which I was unlucky to hit (e.g. the disappearing trainer pikeman in Monitor) and didn't realize until much later. From plot restriction point of view it was interesting that you could not go back from Moonshade until you had completed most of its objectives. However, you could still need to get back to previous areas later on (e.g. the items needed to obtain serpent items and parts). So, when you're getting in the middle game, you might have all the map to explore on what you had missed.

The Silver Seed items, especially the ring of reagents, was absurdly overpowered. If there was a minor factor of managing the scarcity before that (especially because the reagents in U7SI are extremely expensive), after that everything went very smoothly and essentially you didn't need to care about losing a battle, dying, etc. anymore. Rather boring that at that point you had level 7-8 characters, you were still in the first 1/3 of the game, and advancement didn't matter anymore and it was just a plot adventure from there. I must say I rather like those games best where there is at least some element of scarcity, development, etc. to motivate going forward during most of the game.

 

[BarãodoDesterro]

I finally started trying to fulfill my personal vintage list. I chose to start with Ultima IV, but I'll probably weekly mix that with, I don't know, Wizardry I or Dungeon Master (a more combat-oriented game) — or maybe the three at the same time (a couple of hours by week). Fell free to say which one would better contrast with Ultima IV.

Perhaps I will write about my journey here.

So far, I spawned in Moonglow and only "completed" the quest to talk to Nigel following Shazom's insights (really liked how it worked, you actually have to pay attention to what he is saying, not just the words he is saying). Still trying to understand how to convince Mariah to join, where is the shrine of honesty to use the word Cromwell told and how many cities follow the path of truth.

Of course, I want to discover things on my own.

The only thing you can help me, if you so want, and don't think it is an actual spoiler, is if is it okay to open chests in cities (they keep always spawning, but the Book of Mystic Wisdom does not say if I am being some sort of criminal, unvirtuous, by opening them).

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I think I still like Ultima III best (but it is way too short). Was it Ultima 3 that started the wraparound dungeons? Ultima 2 possibly but I believe 3 started that and continued to 5. I have so many variants of these maps you'd think I'd know. Playing U4 entirely eagle-eyed (top down 2D) was different on the SMS. It doubled the treasure I think.

 

[NerevarineKing]

My main problem with Ultima 3 was that it was it was extremely diffiicult to get money without having dedicated grinding sessions by looting the same dungeon or committing genocide on a specific town over and over. I also remember robbing towns for food and equipment in Ultima 2.

 

[Bruma Hobo]

I finally started trying to fulfill my personal vintage list. I chose to start with Ultima IV, but I'll probably weekly mix that with, I don't know, Wizardry I or Dungeon Master (a more combat-oriented game) — or maybe the three at the same time (a couple of hours by week). Fell free to say which one would better contrast with Ultima IV.

Perhaps I will write about my journey here.

So far, I spawned in Moonglow and only "completed" the quest to talk to Nigel following Shazom's insights (really liked how it worked, you actually have to pay attention to what he is saying, not just the words he is saying). Still trying to understand how to convince Mariah to join, where is the shrine of honesty to use the word Cromwell told and how many cities follow the path of truth.

Of course, I want to discover things on my own.

The only thing you can help me, if you so want, and don't think it is an actual spoiler, is if is it okay to open chests in cities (they keep always spawning, but the Book of Mystic Wisdom does not say if I am being some sort of criminal, unvirtuous, by opening them).

Wizardry 1 provides the perfect contrast in my opinion since it's a very polished combat-heavy game with perma-death, so go for it. Or maybe Might and Magic 1 for a very different take on non-linear open world design.

Beware when playing Ultima IV: Random encounters scale to your party size and even fixed encounters become too messy when controlling too many characters at once. You should have only 2 or 3 companions if you don't want combat to become even shittier than what aready is, but you will also need a full party if you want to beat the game, so you should recruit the rest right before stepping into the final dungeon.

 

[Cael]

I finally started trying to fulfill my personal vintage list. I chose to start with Ultima IV, but I'll probably weekly mix that with, I don't know, Wizardry I or Dungeon Master (a more combat-oriented game) — or maybe the three at the same time (a couple of hours by week). Fell free to say which one would better contrast with Ultima IV.

Perhaps I will write about my journey here.

So far, I spawned in Moonglow and only "completed" the quest to talk to Nigel following Shazom's insights (really liked how it worked, you actually have to pay attention to what he is saying, not just the words he is saying). Still trying to understand how to convince Mariah to join, where is the shrine of honesty to use the word Cromwell told and how many cities follow the path of truth.

Of course, I want to discover things on my own.

The only thing you can help me, if you so want, and don't think it is an actual spoiler, is if is it okay to open chests in cities (they keep always spawning, but the Book of Mystic Wisdom does not say if I am being some sort of criminal, unvirtuous, by opening them).

You cannot recruit the class you are. If you spawned near Moonglow, you are a mage. Therefore, you cannot recruit Mariah.

Opening chests in cities will tank your Honesty, so don't do it... unless you want to cheese the system and get full Honesty in 10 min.

 

[Infinitron]

An archeological find from the pre-smartphone mobile games dark age: https://www.pixsoriginadventures.co.uk/ultima-1-3-for-palmos/

Ultima 1-3 For PalmOS

Five years back, I had a very quick look at the Palm OS port of Ultima 1 but wasn’t able to get very far with it. The first 3 games in the series were ported to this unlikely platform around 2004 but all I was able to find were demo versions. I wasn’t even able to buy food in the demos if I recall correctly severely limiting how far I could get.

Out of the blue, I was contacted last week by someone going by the name of randomdays claiming to have found the full versions in some undisclosed part of the internet. On first inspection, I thought that these were going to be the same demos as the files are nearly identical in size. However, having had a quick go on all 3, they don’t have the obvious limitations of the demo in terms of buying food and the nag text on death isn’t there either. I’ll withhold some judgement that they are complete until someone has actually played through the whole thing – it’s feasible it may be a hacked version of the demo but I’m guessing that we do indeed have the full games here.

It’s not every day a new Ultima turns up. These should be interesting ports also with Ultima 1 and 2 adding 4 player parties. I’ve dug out my trusty old Tungsten T3, have ordered a new battery for it (which are remarkedly still being sold) and intend to have a go at a playthrough assuming I can get that battery fitted. In the meanwhile, I’ve put the games up for download below. There are PalmOS emulators available for Android and Windows (none of which I’ve tried) which should be able to run them all in the entirely likely event you don’t have the appropriate 20 year old PDA available.

Ultima 1

Ultima 2

Ultima 3

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Yeah, I recall when I emailed him about it and he finally got his device working. Its still a shame we only have shareware and not a fully unlocked product.

Anyway, I was fucking around on the apple ios apps looking at Dragon Quest games then typed Ultima. I found 2 games i may buy:



$1.99 for Lowlander
$2.99 for Lowlander II