Ultima The Ultima Series Discussion Thread

[Humbaba]

The only one I've ever tried is Ultima VII: The Black Gate, but I could never really get into it.

Been some years since I tried though so intend on doing so again later this year. Any advice how to get the most fun out of it?

The magic of Ultima VII is that it contains one of the best, probably the best, simulations of a living, breathing world. It was way ahead of its time back then, with many features that modern RPG's still have never had, or only with mods. You will be hard pressed to name me another game that has all of the following:
- Seamless, huge open world without loading times
- Weather effects like rain, storms and lightning
- Buy a cart and travel the roads with your party of up to 8
- Or buy a ship and sail the seas to explore various islands
- Too much stuff? Get some crates and put them on your cart or ship
- Find and fight a pirate ship in the ocean
- Survival mechanic, need to feed yourself and the party
- (In Ultima VII part 2 Serpent Isle) Cold and hot temperature effects need to dress up warm to explore the north
- Deer and other animals to hunt in the forests for food
- A world filled with life, birds, many different animals, even flies
- (In Ultima VII part 2 Serpent Isle) Go fishing with a fishing rod. 30 Years before Skyrim, the Fishing Edition
- Open every drawer, move any item, interact with many of them
- Use a bucket on a well to get water
- Use bucket with water on flour to get dough
- Put dough in an oven to bake bread
- Weave wool into cloth
- Use scissors on cloth to cut a bandage
- Use diapers on babies to get dirty diapers
- Use dirty diapers on NPCs...

And the NPC's really make all the difference, in which other game do NPC's:
- Every NPC has their schedule which they follow along in their daily lives
- They get up in the morning from their beds, open windows, put out the lights
- Go to work, the baker bakes bread
- The tailor weaves cloth and cuts clothing
- The magician creates potions or reads in a book
- The farmers work the fields
- The politicians sit at their desks and do absolutely nothing. The realism!
- The smith works at his smithy, hammering away at the metal
- Miners hack at chunks of ore in mines in search for gold and gems, which sometimes they find
- The church of scientology preaches at their masses
- People go to the pup in the evenings
- The waitress puts plates on the table
- People order food
- The waitress puts food on the plate
- The people eat their food and order more
- At evening people turn on the lights and close the windows
- People go back into their beds to sleep, unless its a wife-cheating mayor
- Paladins fight bandits or headless at the gates of the city
- A few thieves will steal stuff from your inventory. Watch out

Then the world building is great. There are large fields and farms, people in this land actually have some sustenance. There are dangerous dungeons to explore in the mountains and treasures to find.
Ultima VII is the only game which makes you believe your PC is running a little, miniature, medieval fantasy world, and for me as a kid, this was the Ultima(te) RPG experience. I would ignore the story and play a hunter in the forest, or a trader buying food in one of the farms for cheap, to sell it in the castle for profit. I would play games where I was a pirate captain and would raid the cities. Or simply be an explorer and adventurer. It was like playing an open-world RPG like Skyrim, but better.
And the controls are easy and intuitive. Everything can be controlled with the mouse. Want to cast a spell? Double click your spell book to open it, open the correct page in the book, then double click the spell.
But there are some handy shortcut keys to make things easier.

30 years on, there is still no other game that has this level of detail in how the world and the NPC's in it behave. Your enjoyment of Ultima VII will probably depend on how much you value this little world-simulation that is going on inside of it.

Don't forget the unicorn that asks you if you are a virgin.

 

[Tavernking]

Ultima 6 looks so good, and I like the idea of the turn based combat. But it's difficult for me to play (clunky, horrible GUI, horrible inventory management). What game will fill this hole in my heart?

 

[Atrachasis]

Ultima 6 looks so good, and I like the idea of the turn based combat. But it's difficult for me to play (clunky, horrible GUI, horrible inventory management). What game will fill this hole in my heart?

I keep reading these complaints about the GUI. I admit that, as Ultima VI was my first Ultima (actually, come to think of it, my first RPG, unless you count "Castle Adventure"), I am utterly imprinted by it, which is probably why I fail to see its shortcomings. I'd genuinely be interested in a developer's perspective on what makes the GUI and inventory management (surely you're not saying that it's worse than Ultima VII?) so awful. Please enlighten me before my retirement, because at that point I might start programming the RPG of my dreams, and unless you stop me, it will look and feel precisely like Ultima VI.

 

[Inconceivable]

Don't forget the unicorn that asks you if you are a virgin.

Good point, and the unicorn's response varies depending on if you engaged in certain, kinky in-game activities.
Ultima VII is pretty edgy. One of the few games that has kids and even toddlers and allows you to kill them. Only babies are off-limits, because they are actually items and not full NPC's. At a few points in the game, it practically forces you to kill kids.
You can kill the king, Lord British, in at least two different ways, and practically break the game, or call the Armageddon spell, and destroy all life on the planet.
Edit: And there is a casino.
Ultima VII part two: Serpent Isle, has sex scenes with nudity, moaning and all.

Nothing else like it.

 

[octavius]

Ultima 6 looks so good, and I like the idea of the turn based combat. But it's difficult for me to play (clunky, horrible GUI, horrible inventory management). What game will fill this hole in my heart?

The Ultima 6 Project, a remake using the Dungeon Siege engine. I thought it was very good.

 

[AdolfSatan]

Ultima 6 looks so good, and I like the idea of the turn based combat. But it's difficult for me to play (clunky, horrible GUI, horrible inventory management). What game will fill this hole in my heart?

Ideally, Skald.

 

[Humbaba]

Ultima VII part two: Serpent Isle, has sex scenes with nudity, moaning and all.

Nothing else like it.

Oh I remember that one. It was doubly funny because I played the Blackvatar.

 

[Infinitron]

- Find and fight a pirate ship in the ocean

Not in Ultima 7.

 

[Inconceivable]

- Find and fight a pirate ship in the ocean

Not in Ultima 7.

https://wiki.ultimacodex.com/wiki/Pirates
https://wiki.ultimacodex.com/wiki/File:PirateshipU7.png

"A lone pirate ship can be encountered in Ultima VII at 131°S 49°E. Boarding it is not possible however and using a cheat it is discovered that the loot is mundane items."

The Wiki is wrong however. You absolutely CAN board the ship. You park your ship next to it at just the right distance, lower the gangplank on your ship and use Telekinesis spell to lower the gangplank on the pirate ship. Maybe Telekinesis spell is not even needed.

 

[Bruma Hobo]

https://invidio.us/watch?v=IO3xohVcI_Q

 

[Tavernking]

Ultima 6 looks so good, and I like the idea of the turn based combat. But it's difficult for me to play (clunky, horrible GUI, horrible inventory management). What game will fill this hole in my heart?

I keep reading these complaints about the GUI. I admit that, as Ultima VI was my first Ultima (actually, come to think of it, my first RPG, unless you count "Castle Adventure"), I am utterly imprinted by it, which is probably why I fail to see its shortcomings. I'd genuinely be interested in a developer's perspective on what makes the GUI and inventory management (surely you're not saying that it's worse than Ultima VII?) so awful. Please enlighten me before my retirement, because at that point I might start programming the RPG of my dreams, and unless you stop me, it will look and feel precisely like Ultima VI.

Recommend you look at the OpenArthurianX6 “Ultima 6”-like game engine, if you're going to make a game like Ultima 6.

You can play the free web demo here

 

[SausageInYourFace]

The one thing that is kinda sad about U7 is that, despite all the effort of creating this big world, there is not actually all that much to do in terms of quests. There is like one quest in every town and iirc they are all related to the main quest. What is more, is that the world is fairly easily traversed, take a few steps in whatever direction, and you have basically crossed the whole continent. So in actuality, it feels a little smaller in terms of scale than you'd think.

 

[Tavernking]

Tales of the Avatar: The Law of Virtue

 

[Bruma Hobo]

Ultima VII is a mess.

The game had:

• Chaotic and really pointless real-time combat replacing a fine turn-based system, where spells are no longer useful, and stats have no noticeable effects. Just equip yourself, activate combat mode, and be done with it after a few seconds of nonsense. At least it was fast.
  
  
• Meaningless customization options, with no character creation nor classes. Despite combat being an afterthought and spending most of the game chatting with NPCs and moving objects around, stats don't influence these activities at all.
  
  
• A dumbed-down dialogue system where you no longer type keywords so you don't have to think of what to say next, nor you can sequence break quests if you already know what to do next, forcing linearity and players just clicking all available options without even reading. Karma meters are also absent now, so NPCs no longer can surprise you with some small C&C like in prior Ultima games.
  
  
• No more destructible vessels, no more naval battles against pirate ships with cannons and boarding stages, no more wind affecting navigation, and ships are completely worthless anyways thanks to the magic carpet that can be found at the beginning of the game (which, unlike in Ultima V, now it can cross vast oceans, making all other transport means pointless).
  
  
• Headache-inducing perspective and inferior cinematic presentation, unlike prior Ultima games with a more appropriate abstract presentation for these kinds of simulationist games.
  
  
• Companions need to be manually fed like they were fucking babies every couple of minutes. Who's idea was that? Buying tons of food does also make a mess of inventory organization, in a game with a really cumbersome inventory system. You will spend countless hours micro your inventory.
  
  
• The plot, while not bad at all for its time, feels like a more generic good vs evil tale after the three prior games which had more unique stories about an inward fight.

 

[Ysaye]

The one thing that is kinda sad about U7 is that, despite all the effort of creating this big world, there is not actually all that much to do in terms of quests. There is like one quest in every town and iirc they are all related to the main quest. What is more, is that the world is fairly easily traversed, take a few steps in whatever direction, and you have basically crossed the whole continent. So in actuality, it feels a little smaller in terms of scale than you'd think.

I don't know about others but less sub-quests is the goal isn't it? In U7, you don't do side quests outside the main quest; instead you go "Well I wonder what is off in this cave?", or I need some money for feeding my whinging companions, shall I get it by doing ...? and then you go and do it. That is the magic of it. I hear people going on about how bad side quest design is all the time but isn't the main sin of U7 that it's main quest is a sown together list of fetch quests straight out of a point and click adventure game?

U7 delights in the pointlessness and mundane of every day life but you have to be willing to engage in that to find the main quest thread (which without a guide can be hard to follow without talking to everyone and noting everything). I think to a degree we have been weaned off talking to everyone and everything; just go rush for the character with the ! over there head that is marked on the map and mentioned in bold in the journal) and ignore the rest, many of whom we have just given no dialogue at all other than maybe "they won't talk to you right now".

Yes, It doesn't take all that much time to traverse the world but there is a density of stuff to concentrate on in between which makes up for it. The forest in Yew in U7 is a good example - it always feels packed with stuff; yes you can get to Cove from the Abbey actually pretty quickly if you just ignore everything between them but can you ignore everything?

 

[octavius]

The only thing interesting in U6 and U7 is piecing together the plot. The combat is atrocious, and so what if I can interact with a gazillion items and bake bread? That's not what I want to do in a video game.

 

[Inconceivable]

Ultima VII is a mess.

The game had:

• Chaotic and really pointless real-time combat replacing a fine turn-based system, where spells are no longer useful, and stats have no noticeable effects. Just equip yourself, activate combat mode, and be done with it after a few seconds of nonsense. At least it was fast.
  
  
• Meaningless customization options, with no character creation nor classes. Despite combat being an afterthought and spending most of the game chatting with NPCs and moving objects around, stats don't influence these activities at all.

The combat system is more nuanced than you think. You can easily test this by using cheats to modify your stats. A good place to do this might be the combat arena in U7 Part 2, were you can always face off against the same opponents.
If you're an agile fighter with a long-ranged weapon, like a spear, your character will constantly try to stay at a distance, avoiding the opponents blows, striking faster, and thereby possibly beat a stronger opponent. If your character does not have high combat skill, he will be much slower at this maneuvering and thereby much less effective at avoiding blows. A stronger character with low agility also moves slow, but if he manages to get in a hit with a heavy weapon, like 2h sword, it will deal massive damage.

Also, you can use magic in combat by setting a "default spell" in the spellbook, and equipping it in the main hand. Or of course choose a spell manually, and the game will pause for you to select a target.

But, I understand you. The first Ultima you play usually sticks with you, and all others shall be judged by that one. I actually started with U8, and because of it, I still love the game (*gasp* the horror). I know that it is one of the lesser Ultimas in comparison. The one that started the real decline of the series. But it has great music and atmosphere, and the world and lore is very unique and interesting. And it is as it is... the games you played first, the ones you went into without any expectations and preconceived notions, make a lasting impression.

 

[AdolfSatan]

Nuanced or not, it's still shit combat. But then again, all Ultimas suck at it. I tried to replay a couple these last years, but I realized I enjoy more the memory of them than the actual act of playing, I don't have the patience to deal with their pitfalls nowadays. I'd say that UW1 is the one that's aged the best, specially with the mouselook hack.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

The only thing interesting in U6 and U7 is piecing together the plot. The combat is atrocious, and so what if I can interact with a gazillion items and bake bread? That's not what I want to do in a video game.

YOU WILL BAKE DA BREAD AND LIKE IT!

BAKE!!!!

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Mouse look hack?

I would have liked to got this to work..
https://reconstruction.voyd.net/index.php?event=project&typeKeyword=remakes
it fails.
http://geocities.bootstrike.com/Minerjr Productions/akalabeth/akalabetho.htm

Combat:


FM-towns 1-3 (in game music sucks ass). Interesting added features in this one. It was ok tbh but still not the best.


I was always a fan of the c64 Ultima IV


THE Sega Master System. Weird dungeon style and combat is improved over other versions of u4

 

[rusty_shackleford]

how come the poll doesn't have Ultima: Worlds of Adventure 2: Martian Dreams

 

[AdolfSatan]

Mouse look hack?

https://github.com/JohnGlassmyer/UltimaHacks

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Ultima 5. Still ok combat imho
The amiga could only play a bastardized version of Metallica's "One"


So c128 was better but I guess its dos here

There really needs to be a series of vids on just combat for each.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Ultima 6.... ok. No c64 shit.. its terrible. Oh fine


Awesome eh?

Various but notably NUVIE


Ultima 7 (namely Exult)


Ulrima 7 Serpent Isle

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Ultima 8 wish less talking and more combat.. meh!


Ultima 9


lol