Ultima The Ultima Series Discussion Thread

[ShaggyMoose]

I managed to finish Serpent Isle "before the internet". Now reading the above, I am kind of surprised at that...

 

[Ysaye]

I managed to finish Serpent Isle "before the internet". Now reading the above, I am kind of surprised at that...

Same - this reads as very revisionist for mine.

 

[Cael]

I managed to finish Serpent Isle "before the internet". Now reading the above, I am kind of surprised at that...

Same - this reads as very revisionist for mine.

The puzzle to open Skullcrusher's gate was pretty obscure. Other than that, I thought Serpent Isle was pretty straightforward.

 

[Grauken]

I managed to finish Serpent Isle "before the internet". Now reading the above, I am kind of surprised at that...

Same - this reads as very revisionist for mine.

Yeah, this is one reason I don't like the Digital Antiquarian, his articles seem well researched, but he often comes to conclusions that feel very off from how things were really perceived at the time

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Reading the history of Origin and product shuffling, low sales is a tad depressing. I knew the 2nd half of SI felt off but having it verified that they needed a few more months for polish confirms that suspicion. In some ways, I think the pushing the envelope of newer and newer engines crippled the company at times (that and far too many spread out projects).

I don't recall all the EA details (the vultures they are).

 

[Bumvelcrow]

Reading the history of Origin and product shuffling, low sales is a tad depressing. I knew the 2nd half of SI felt off but having it verified that they needed a few more months for polish confirms that suspicion. In some ways, I think the pushing the envelope of newer and newer engines crippled the company at times (that and far too many spread out projects).

I don't recall all the EA details (the vultures they are).

The post-banes world was really disappointing. I was too young at the time to know about Origin's financial problems, but up to that point Serpent Isle had been the highlight of my Ultima, and indeed RPG life. My feelings after exploring the remains of the lands of Danger and Despair was 'we destroy worlds'.

 

[karnak]

I managed to finish Serpent Isle "before the internet". Now reading the above, I am kind of surprised at that...

Same - this reads as very revisionist for mine.

Yeah, this is one reason I don't like the Digital Antiquarian, his articles seem well researched, but he often comes to conclusions that feel very off from how things were really perceived at the time

100% agree!
His recent article about Alone in the Dark is an excellent example of that. It's clear that he lacks complete context of the times when the game was released, while complaining about the absurd puzzles (dumb young "me" managed to finish the game before any gaming magazine had published a walkthrough), bad graphics (were there any "beautiful" 3d vector games in 1992 ?) weird camera angles (the "weird" angles were supposed to emulate the bizarre camera angles of horror B-Movies of the 70s and 80s) and terrible combat (the guy is obviously a noob in action games).

The game has sure aged a lot, but it was state-of-the-art when it appeared (and it even ran fine on a 286 PC). Something which the Antiquarian clearly has no clue about. The same thing could apply to other essays he's written concerning other games.
An historian who lacks good "context" skills should stay well clear of History.

 

[Tweed]

I think we fell behind our audience in terms of the sophistication they expected and we catered too much to the hardcore fans

I think I'm going to be sick. From the completely ignorant customer perspective Ultima VII looked incredible, the local Software Etc showed it off on their computer. Getting it set up was a nightmare, but it didn't matter, it was awesome to us.

Meanwhile, I remember when my brother picked up Ultima VIII and he was so disappointed that he returned it. We didn't play it until I got a bargain bin copy a few years later.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I rather liked Metal Jesus' reviews on Ultima. I agree about the U7 box just being stunning for what it was. Sadly, I ended up getting a hand me down from a used store so I drool at those mint condition manuals. I missed out on the big box versions of Serpent Isle, silver Serpent, Forge of Virtue, U8, Ultima underworld I&II and ended up with those small compilation boxes that had jack and shit in them. BLARG!

 

[Grauken]

U7 was so awesome at the time, not everbody had a computer powerful enough to run it. It was the utter beejees, people where just looking at all the NPCs doing their stuff and in awe. Main complaints where the inventory and the combat. Nobody ever accused the game for being too long

 

[Cael]

U7 was hampered by its memory management system. It really took the whole thing to extremes. Remember, this was the 640k period, and U7 can take 600k of that or more (I can't remember now). You practically have to create your own boot disk to clear space AND run the game's quirky system, which was neither EMS or XMS. At a time when computers were voodoo magic boxes to most people. I was lucky that I was self-taught in computers, and so I knew what to do to mess around with the memory and boot disks. The casual users? Forget it. In fact, I doubt most of the users today would be able to get U7 to run in 640k hardware.

 

[EruDaan]

. It was the utter beejees, people where just looking at all the NPCs doing their stuff and in awe.

NPCs having an schedule of what they do at any given time at specific places is something that even decades later was / is very rare for a game to actually manage like U7 did.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I think Rich wanted to make the worlds very much an AI VR esp after reading about the UO ecology with herbivores, carnivores and growing vegitation. I guess that failed though. Good ol online economical destruction. First online game i played i kept reading how the economy was fucked. As a newb i was like "wtf you talking about?"

 

[ShaggyMoose]

U7 was hampered by its memory management system. It really took the whole thing to extremes. Remember, this was the 640k period, and U7 can take 600k of that or more (I can't remember now). You practically have to create your own boot disk to clear space AND run the game's quirky system, which was neither EMS or XMS. At a time when computers were voodoo magic boxes to most people.

Arrrghhh, Voodoo memory manager! I had to create a bootdisk with a special configuration just to get this thing to load, including a minimal mouse driver!

 

[Cael]

U7 was hampered by its memory management system. It really took the whole thing to extremes. Remember, this was the 640k period, and U7 can take 600k of that or more (I can't remember now). You practically have to create your own boot disk to clear space AND run the game's quirky system, which was neither EMS or XMS. At a time when computers were voodoo magic boxes to most people.

Arrrghhh, Voodoo memory manager! I had to create a bootdisk with a special configuration just to get this thing to load, including a minimal mouse driver!

Yep. The only other game I had to make a special boot disk for was, ironically, The Crescent Hawk's Revenge.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

What best ultima game to start play, preferably turn based.

 

[Cael]

What best ultima game to start play, preferably turn based.

Ultima 4 until Ultima 7:2

Ultima 1-3 are stand alone games, pretty much. 4 onwards is a legitimate coherent series with the same protagonist throughout.

There is no Ultima beyond 7:2.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

I used to enjoy ultima online in 56kbps era.

 

[Cael]

I used to enjoy ultima online in 56kbps era.

MMO is cancer. Stop it. Get help!

Spoiler

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

 

[Bruma Hobo]

What best ultima game to start play, preferably turn based.

Unless you are a combatfag, you should start with Ultima IV. The game is exploration heaven, has a truly unique plot, and the best karma system in the series (and maybe even this whole genre), it was really groundbreaking. Unfortunately there is no definitive version of this game, I'm guessing the DOS version with the music patch may be the best for you, but if you're a purist emulate the Apple II one, while the Master System version is great for beginners.

If you are a combatfag and don't mind starting with a direct sequel, Ultima V has the best combat in the series by far. Just patch the DOS version (which in this case is great) and you're good.

And if you're not into 8 bit games at all, and want to experience a truly immersive game, Ultima Underworld by Looking Glass is a must. Obviously not a turn-based game, though.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Gotta say that I did like the SMS version. The ranged tactical had almost a bit of ultima 5 in there. Now I can't recall if you can purchase larger quantities of food, torches, reagents, weapons in the menus. I could be thinking of the vast variations of Ultima 3 I tried (from the c64, c64 gold, amiga, nes, Gameboy with part 2, to FM-Towns trilogy). Ultima 2.. blarg. It is what it is and I think the only versions I haven't tried are the palm os, and appleII (possible a few others since they seem obscure but I think the FM-towns sort of covers the pc-88/98).

THIS!!!! OH THIS!!!! IS THE GAME TO START WITH!!!!

Spoiler

Spoiler

This dude sort of takes this more seriously

 

[Tigranes]

As someone who only later went back to the Ultimas, I thought 7 was an interesting experience and lovely to just explore, but with completely and utterly broken combat - 'broken' isn't even a metaphor here, it's just incredulously nonsensical and thankfully can be done at the speed of light. Ultima Underworld was a genuinely great expeirence all round that I would recommend to anybody.

 

[Barbalos]

Serpent Isle was my favourite I'd say, but I also felt it dropped off way too much in the second half. The first half has a lot of interesting NPCs and dialogue and the second has very little. Black Gate was better at that and it's pretty close between the two in terms of my preference. I also didn't play the earlier entries though so I'm definitely no expert on the series. I wanted to try that Ultima V remake in the Dungeon Siege engine some time, Lazarus it's called. I haven't heard much about it but it looked interesting.

 

[ShaggyMoose]

I thought 7 was an interesting experience and lovely to just explore, but with completely and utterly broken combat - 'broken' isn't even a metaphor here, it's just incredulously nonsensical and thankfully can be done at the speed of light.

Except when you realise that Spark got knocked or killed about ten minutes back and you just noticed... #$*&*(#$%^@