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Ultima The Ultima Series Discussion Thread

What is your favorite Ultima game?


  • Total voters
    348
Unwanted

The Nameless Pun

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Lol, I guess that's true, although I don't understand what you mean by saying for free

Excellent crimestop, comrade The Nameless Pun. :salute:

Look, your question is hard to answer if we don't know how open you are to playing really old RPGs in general.
Well, for me it's more a matter of accumulating knowledge and less of being open to, I haven't played anything as old as the first ultimas so, if these games represent a valid addition to my rpg "culture" I'd be more than happy to play this series.
 

Leitz

Learned
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Apr 13, 2015
Messages
350
Lol, I guess that's true, although I don't understand what you mean by saying for free

Excellent crimestop, comrade The Nameless Pun. :salute:
Yeah give those Pirates a lecture soon!

qg8ojell.jpg
 

taxalot

I'm a spicy fellow.
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Codex 2013 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
For the life of me, I can't seem to get into Ultima 3. The Permadeath system for this kind of game seems very unforgiving if you don't play the game with a guide that tells you what to expect. It's not exactly built like a roguelike. And I finished U1 and U2 without much problem :'(
 

kwanzabot

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Voted black gate which is one of the first games i actually played and beat and thought it was a great game, would like to replay it one of these days to see if the nostalgia holds up

out of all of them only ones i played were 6,black gate, 8 and 9. thought 8/9 were garbage and when i played 6 i think i was too young to grasp the game and never got far into it, i remember playing it though :)
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
http://ultimacodex.com/2016/02/slas...-add-turn-based-combat-to-ultima-7-via-exult/

Slashing Dragon Is Trying To Add Turn-Based Combat to Ultima 7 (Via Exult)
BY WTF DRAGON · FEBRUARY 8, 2016

u7-cyclops-cave.jpg


I’ve complained about the combat in Ultima 7 before, most recently in Episode 17 before thathe has grabbed a copy of the Exult source code, and aims to do something about the matter:

Exult is one of the oldest and more popular Ultima fan projects; it allows you to run all the games using the Ultima 7 engine in modern platforms. It’s not a remake… it takes the data files from the original games and uses them to run a custom made engine, adding a lot of options for improved user experience in addition to making it dead simple to run in about any modern computer.

But, there’s another thing that Exult allows doing, it gives us a chance to fix things we don’t like about the original game. And that’s what I intend to do!

I want combat in Ultima 7 to be more interesting, more relevant, more tactical. I want to try and make it turn based.

The idea is pretty simple:
  • Exult already supports pausing in combat
  • We must detect when the party engages in combat and auto pause.
  • From here the player can either:
    • Move around a limited number of steps
      • This one may probably be the most complex thing to detect
    • Attack a monster (either melee or ranged)
    • Cast a spell
    • Use an item
    • Pass the turn
      • Requires adding a button to the UI
  • Once the player does any of these, the game resumes for about half a second, and pauses again if still on battle and the player is still alive.
And because Slash pursues side projects such as these with a good bit of tenacity, he has begun digging through Exult’s codelooking at different functions which might help him craft a turn-based combat system. He has also begun creating a new module within the codebase that will contain all of the functions to control turn-based combat and its mechanics.

That's not what turn-based means, but good luck.
 
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Unwanted

The Nameless Pun

Unwanted
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Aug 29, 2015
Messages
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Da fuck does it mean you can play all the other games using the ultima 7 engine, on the exult site it says exult works only with ultima 7. I'm a bit confused.
 

Stabwound

Arcane
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
3,240
He means all the games that use the Ultima 7 engine: Black Gate, Silver Seed and whatnot.
 

oldmanpaco

Master of Siestas
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Voted UVI. Although I admit the U4, 5 and 7 are superior games for some reason U6 is the game that brings back the fondest memories. It had the mix of technical advancement + world continuity that still resonates with me 25 years later.
 

Keldryn

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Yeah, Ultima VI was a revelation to me. It was a glimpse of what CRPGs could really deliver and suddenly the worlds in every other game I had played felt utterly simplistic. I spent most of the summer of 1990 playing that game. Still have the notebook from when I played the game, with notes from various conversations, a diagram of where to place the Orb of the Moons in order to reach certain locations, and at the end a partial list of codes to use with "spam spam spam humbug."

Damn I loved that game. That's the one that really got me interested in making games.
 

SausageInYourFace

Codexian Sausage
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Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit. Pathfinder: Wrath
Picked up my playthrough of U6 after a longer hiatus. Currently on a quest to find all the missing map pieces of pirate Hawkins. So I explore the dungeon Shame and on the second or third level suddenly I run into .. kids. Just two children running around in the dungeon, no explanation given. When I look at them it just says 'a child' and when I try to talk to them I get no response.

Anyone know whats up with that? The two Ultima Wikis don't even mention them as far as I can see.
 

octavius

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At least those Sausage Face mentioned were free ranging. I've seen cages full of children in Ultima game(s).
 

oldmanpaco

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Which game did you have to slaughter the evil kids under the castle? Was that U:V?
 

Obviousplant

Educated
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Apr 20, 2015
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How did people manage with out achievement pop ups back in the day? Nothing enhances immersion like seeing something like "Stop kidding around! 10 points" pop up after you discover something like that, eliminating all mystique and uncertainty of whether or not it's an intentional design element or not.
 

SausageInYourFace

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Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit. Pathfinder: Wrath
Forgot bring enough spells with me due to the hiatus. So my badly poisoned party runs into a peasant and almost kills the guy cause there was a gremlin with him. Turns out it was Ybarra. Guy was so badly starved, when I refused to give him food after the third time he begged, he just collapsed. Poor sod. Killed the bunch of Gremlins north of him who probably stole the litte food he still had and then teleported into Britishs throne room on the last bit of my health. And the fucker is asleep in his bed. Good start.
 

SausageInYourFace

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Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit. Pathfinder: Wrath
Today I went to the dungeon Wrong and it is full of shit like that. Children locked behind magic doors, children locked behind portcullis, villagers and city guards - all of them out to kill you. I guess it is to force you to do 'wrong' since that is the theme of the dungeon? Or else resist the temptation. Anyway, I bashed a childs head into a bloody pulp with my bare hands because it stood in my way. So much for honor. None of my companions complained though.
 
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The thing with the children has its root in the anti-RPG hysteria of the 1980s. Years ago I read a letter from Richard Garriot, downloaded from some long-forgotten FTP server, where he talked about it in great detail. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find it anymore. However, the gist of it was, that after the release of the first Ultimas, he received lots of angry letters from parents and other "concerned citizens" calling him out on the alleged promotion of paganism, satanic rituals and so on. (One got famous by awarding him the moniker of satanic perverter of Americas youth). Then there was some smart-ass who found out that in one of the games you were able to kill children. Naturally, the media (they weren't any better back then than today) came to the conclusion that this was a game where you had to kill children, thus turning innocent youths into god-hating, baby-killing communists. Anyway, instead of giving in to the bullies, LB decided to give them something to be really offended about: From then on, he made sure every Ultima contained pentagrams, dark rituals and slaughtered children.

Even if you find this tasteless, I think we should honor his reaction; especially now that we are in the middle of yet another crusade against computer games led by pseudo-religious bigots.
 

Daemongar

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
Actually, Marquis de Lirium you are wrong. I'm looking at page 64 of "The Official Book of Ultima" 2nd Edition. RG put children in a dungeon in Ultima V for the psychological effect. A play-tester who was religious immediately got upset, or as the book sez about placing hostile children in a dungeon in Ultima V:
The Official Book of Ultima said:
Personally, I didn't care how they resolved it, so I put it in. I was really pleased with myself. However, one of the play-testers in the New Hampshire office found that room. He was a religious fundamentalist and was immediately outraged - he thought it was encouraging child abuse. He didn't call me about it; he wrote a long letter to Robert, two or three pages about how he was utterly unwilling to be involved with a company who would even consider, in his mind, promoting child abuse. Well, Robert was outraged. He called me up and said, "Richard, Richard, how could you consider putting something like that in your game?" I told him he had it all wrong, I mean, he interpreted it as it said in the letter, that the only way you can win the game is to slaughter the children in that room."

Richard Garriott put the kids in there while he was bored, someone got upset so RG put killable children into every game. The Robert above (I believe) is Robert Garriott, RG's brother.
 

Beastro

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Voted UVI. Although I admit the U4, 5 and 7 are superior games for some reason U6 is the game that brings back the fondest memories. It had the mix of technical advancement + world continuity that still resonates with me 25 years later.

Started watching Gamehorder's play of it and I could tell right from the opening how much it would have made an impression on anyone who played it back in the day. That opening, it gives you a good motivation to go fucking the Gargoyles up and gets you sucked into the twist later.

I have to say the music in VI is more enjoyable than in VII, which is too inbetween for my tastes while VIs has tons of old fashion midi charm to it.
 

Ladonna

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Strange...there are killable children in some dungeon rooms in Ultima IV.
 

Daemongar

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
Strange...there are killable children in some dungeon rooms in Ultima IV.
I don't think you are correct on this. I've been everywhere in Ultima IV and while there is probably a lot I did miss, I think this would have been a big deal and a big part of every review of Ultima iV (The game of virtue where you do not kill the big, bad foozle... and you can kill children.)
 

SausageInYourFace

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Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit. Pathfinder: Wrath
Since my thousandth post is coming up, I thought I might as well dedicate it to Ultima and write down a few impressions about U6, which I finished yesterday.

It has become really fun to return to the world that you know so well, with the familiar geography, the cities in the right spot, some old faces, some new, to check out what has changed over the years. You would think it would become boring, particularly in a game where exploration is so central, but it feels really nice, like being back in da hood.

My experience with the game has been pretty much like U4&5 even though it is a new engine, the design is still very similar. I did not find the UI as bad at first as some make it out to be but I started to grate on me over time, with all the clicking and the inventory management. You spend a lot of time moving stuff into inventories, to other people, into bags, out of bags, back to someone else. This is made particularly tedious by the weight limit and that selling stuff can become annoying real quick, since not every town has every kind of shop and the day/night cycle makes it so that you have to wait all the time. Its not a big deal at first but if you play such a game for weeks you really start wondering how much time you wasted on unnecessary shit like that. Pretty soon I just left stuff lying about and only bothered to pick shit up that I really needed. Thank the Codex of Ultimate Wisdom that Persistence is a virtue now.

Similarly, I did not find the viewport too small at first, when I was exploring Britannia for the first time. Only later it became clear that it was way too zoomed in to find anything, it makes it really hard to orient yourself in the world because you have almost no reference points in view and you never exactly know where you are in relation to everything else. This is a big problem in such an exploration focused game. Peering does not help a great deal either. At least the graphics are great and since it is zoomed in that much you can see every single detail.

What I notice with all these games is that my personal experience is always divided into three parts.

I am always very excited in the beginning, when I first start exploring Britannia. The conversation system is one of the highlights of the series so far and it has been expanded again in U6. It is just so much fun that, after reading through the wonderful fluffbooks, you can explore the whole world on your own, go to all the cities and get to know the people (all of them represented with their own portrait this time, which is very nice), look for interesting stuff in the towns and collect and write down notes that you gain through in-depth conversations. This time around there is also a bit of party banter or at least smaller interjections by them, which really adds to the immersion.

Alas, again one is fighting a bit against the engine. Scrolling through conversations is impossible so you often have start again if you can not keep all the keywords in mind and are to lazy to write them all down for every single conversation. Its also irritating that the music goes into full stop every time you start a conversation. This is doubly annoying because the music is absolutely wonderful (for a time, that is. After some weeks, you may still want to switch it off.)

The characters remain static and non-reactive however, which is understandable for a game at that time but it means, once you have visited every town and talked to everyone, a big (and probably the best) part of the game is just done. Its over. Nothing to do here anymore, nothing to see. The world is just empty and dead now. Please move on.

So once you thus explored everything, talked to everyone, collected all the clues and hopefully sort of figured out your goal, 'the slog' begins. Thats the middle part, where the cool stuff is over - exploring towns, talking to people, getting to know the world - and the boring stuff begins, teleporting around, collecting items, dungeon crawling etc. Thats usually where I burn out and have to take a break. U6 does a lot to actually cut down on the tedium of 'the slog'. It gives you an easy way to quickly travel the world with the moonstone (also you can take a skiff over the ocean now), the combat system is way faster and you have a clearer idea of where to go and what to do. Unfortunately, its still tedious. Traveling is easier but the zoomed in view still makes it annoying cause you get lost easily. Combat is less of a drag with the party AI but it is still far from fun.

The endgame then becomes fun again, when you assembled all the stuff that you need to wrap things up. In U6 it is particularly cool, because then the world of the Gargoyles opens up to you and you start to learn about their plight and to study how their own system of virtues is different. It gives you some good lessons and stuff to think about and thats what I love about this series. It just seems odd that the game offers this whole new perspective pretty much at the end. You'd think that the problem with the gargoyles and their opposing virtue system should be the center and focus of the plot but its really introduced right at the end. I know its supposed to be some kind of twist but the theme of the game should have really been more pervasive throughout. They should have done more with it and designed a larger part of the game around the Gargish society and studying those virtues. This is kind of a missed opportunity and since the considerations about virtue and morality for me are the heart of the Ultima experience, this is probably my biggest criticism. Nonetheless, what is there is still pretty good.

I enjoy the magic system with its ton of utility spells that really can make your life easier or just help you to fuck around a bit in the sandbox. It was particularly fun to just switch to solo mode, drop an invisibility potion and walk past a truckload of dragons and loot their lair before their very eyes. It is also good that you have a magic book now, so you don't have to find a list first and type out the whole invocation. I guess some people would consider that decline already. Next thing up is that I will recommend getting rid of the fucking reagents.

Let me just quote one thing of the Addicts review of U6:

It's a good main quest, with a fun plot twist in the middle of it, but why-oh-why can't the Ultima series get on board with side quests? You've got a big world and a great game engine--give us more to do with it!

I agree with this. U6 is the first game where the world is so big and lively and filled with so many interesting NPCs that the absence of side-quests is felt and its beginning to feel a little odd that everyone and everything just revolves around dropping clues for your main quest.
And in light of the age of the game I should perhaps not begin to complain about fetch quests .. but man, what the fuck was it with that fucking balloon quest? All the shitty steps in that quest felt almost satirical. Anyway.

All in all, I really enjoyed U6 a great deal and even though I am in the minority I think it is in most ways an improvement over its predecessors. They did away with a lot of tediousness from earlier games (e.g. by making traveling easier, making combat faster) while keeping the great stuff (philosophy, story, conversation system) and improving on it. They introduced a few new quirks in the process (this fucking viewport man, holy shit) but nothing that breaks the experience.

What makes Ultima really stand out to this day in my mind is not so much the simulationists aspects but moreso that it dares to offer thought-provoking ideas. Both elements are interconnected and U6 certainly delivers in both regards, even though I feel it could have done it a bit better with the latter this time.
 
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