The River of Time is ooooouuuttt!

[made]

Are you guys seriously arguing with Drog?

oops lol

 

[Crichton]

Is anyone here familiar enough with the mechanics to confirm that the "Shield Parry" skills (I'm guessing on the name, I've got the kraut version) do what the description says? Because I don't see any change in the character sheet.

 

[Roguey]

Yeah, I guess so, mores the pity. I actually forgot about Drog and took this guy's posts at face value.

Mother fuckers act like they forgot about Drog.

I'm sorry. That was terrible and dated. Anyway, though I'm only an amateur Drogologist, the post history doesn't seem very Drog-like. I don't think it's him.

 

[Cenobyte]

@ Crichton: You mean "Schildkampf"?
That improves your ability to parry when using a shield and allows for two parries per turn.

Normally you should see something like PA 2/0 in the character sheet, if you have a shield equipped. Afaik it works flawlessly, at least I've never heard a complaint about this before.

 

[hoochimama]

Both char sheet and actual combat rolls in the first one showed it did what it was supposed to.

Fairly good explanation of the game mechanics: http://forum.dtp-entertainment.com/view ... 63&t=12047

 

[Crichton]

Maybe the problem is that I don't understand how these things are supposed to be displayed. Here's my hard luck dwarven druid with and without shield, he doesn't have any ranks of "shield fighting"

Just what you'd expect, he gets a 2nd parry for carrying a shield, but no bonus to parry.

Now here's korgan/oghren/kelgar/every other drunken dwarven warrior stereotype, he has "shield fighting 1"

Now if I'm reading the description right, he should get a +2 bonus to "shield parry" (the 2nd parry), but he's only getting +1.

 

[Shannow]

Yeah, I guess so, mores the pity. I actually forgot about Drog and took this guy's posts at face value.

Mother fuckers act like they forgot about Drog.

I'm sorry. That was terrible and dated. Anyway, though I'm only an amateur Drogologist, the post history doesn't seem very Drog-like. I don't think it's him.

If
Drakensang = oldschool
then
poster = Drog
or
poster has only a few thousand braincells and has to switch between breathing and writing, which again = Drog

Simply no way around it...

And Forgrimm should have
AT 13 (16 - 3 malus from shield)
PA 13, 19 (13 + 2 from the skill + 4 bonus from the shield)
But I'm sure I'm forgetting some malusses that come with shields. It doesn't seem to be Behinderung...*shrug*

 

[made]

In before "Drakensang is super complex and oldschool coz I dont get wtf all these stats mean coz I'm playing in a language I don't understand."

 

[poetic codex]

What's puzzling here is that some of you guys still seem to be hung up on my use of the word "old school"

I am certainly not the first person to use "old school" in that specific manner.


Of course, I know that there's relative old school (like Baldur's gate), and there's old school (like Ultima 1 or the Gold Box series)


If you disagree with my point that people should spend less time complaining against companies that have zero chance to give them what they want and more time supporting companies that have a better chance of doing so, then it is within your right to disagree with that point.

But getting hung up on on my use of the term "old school" seems to be petty or Aspie.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

What's puzzling here is that some of you guys still seem to be hung up on my use of the word "old school"

I am certainly not the first person to use "old school" in that specific manner.


Of course, I know that there's relative old school (like Baldur's gate), and there's old school (like Ultima 1 or the Gold Box series)


If you disagree with my point that people should spend less time complaining against companies that have zero chance to give them what they want and more time supporting companies that have a better chance of doing so, then it is within your right to disagree with that point.

But getting hung up on on my use of the term "old school" seems to be petty or Aspie.

Besides the 2D, what elements of Baldur's Gate is 'oldschool' in your opinion. And then you can explain what is old school about this title (that I cannot find for sale anywhere except in German).

 

[poetic codex]

Besides the 2D, what elements of Baldur's Gate is 'oldschool' in your opinion. And then you can explain what is old school about this title (that I cannot find for sale anywhere except in German).

Old school meaning part of the early Black Isle era which approx. ranges from 1998 to 2001. Features games like Fallout, Torment, Baldur's Gate 2 and Arcanum (Troika). Those games are held up around here as the best western RPG's., and those are what people use for comparison purposes.

"Fallout 3 or Dragon Age is shit compared to [one of the aforementioned]" is a term that is not uncommon around these parts.

Like those games, Drakensang is not an action RPG, it's not an RPG/FPS hybrid, it's PC exclusive, and it's party-based. In that regard, it's more similar to those old black isle games than other recent titles.



Obviously, I meant "old school" in a very specific context, and I am certainly not the first or only person to use it within that context.


P.S. here's a quote from 2009 from one of the guys who is arguing against this use of the term old school:

I think I might have used the term old school in my mini review [of Drakensang] at the Codex. It's likely they just copied that.

Contradictory much?

 

[made]

Have you actually read the mini review that line refers to?

 

[poetic codex]

Alright, here's another quote from you:

Well, the game is not as awful as I expected. Camera works fine for me (better than NWN's in fact), interface is well designed, the attribute and skill sheets have a deliciously old school feel to them.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Besides the 2D, what elements of Baldur's Gate is 'oldschool' in your opinion. And then you can explain what is old school about this title (that I cannot find for sale anywhere except in German).

Old school meaning part of the early Black Isle era which approx. ranges from 1998 to 2001. Features games like Fallout, Torment, Baldur's Gate 2 and Arcanum (Troika). Those games are held up around here as the best western RPG's., and those are what people use for comparison purposes.

"Fallout 3 or Dragon Age is shit compared to [one of the aforementioned]" is a term that is not uncommon around these parts.

Like those games, Drakensang is not an action RPG, it's not an RPG/FPS hybrid, it's PC exclusive, and it's party-based. In that regard, it's more similar to those old black isle games than other recent titles.



Obviously, I meant "old school" in a very specific context, and I am certainly not the first or only person to use it within that context.


P.S. here's a quote from 2009 from one of the guys who is arguing against this use of the term old school:

I think I might have used the term old school in my mini review [of Drakensang] at the Codex. It's likely they just copied that.

Contradictory much?

Please just list the elements if you would.

 

[made]

Exactly. That paragraph is the mini review in question.

The stat&skill sheets felt oldschool to me because they reminded me of the original DSA games. I then go on to say how the game as a whole compares to DSA of old.

How does that have any relevance to your claim that Drakensang - the game - is old school because it has a party and is PC exclusive?



(Forgive me, Shannow)

 

[poetic codex]

^
This whole argument is beside the point, and I will move on from it. If you use the term old school in another context which gives it another meaning, then that's perfectly fine. The term doesn't have a static, objective meaning.

My over-arching point, however was that Drakensang had some elements which made it more similar to those early Black Isle era games, and it would have been in our best interest to support a company willing to do something like that, instead of spending that time arguing about how much Beth/Bio sucks. If you disagree with that point as well, then that's also fine.

 

[made]

^
You brought it up in a vain attempt to show that mentioning oldschool and Drakensang in the same sentence somehow proves your point. It obviously doesn't.

Your point is that Drakensang deserved support because it was less nextgen than, say, FO3. I maintain that, despite having some promising elements, it wasn't worth buying because the shit outweighed the good. ROT was better, and had they kept making sequels they might have ended up with an outright excellent game some time in the future. Or maybe they would have gone the Arcania road instead. We will never know.

 

[latexmonkeys]

My over-arching point, however was that Drakensang had some elements which made it more similar to those early Black Isle era games, and it would have been in our best interest to support a company willing to do something like that, instead of spending that time arguing about how much Beth/Bio sucks.

The problem is that your comparisons are superficial at best. I can see you possibly drawing a parallel between BG2 and Drakensang- RTWP combat (which you in fact failed to mention), party-based, PC exclusive (can't see how this is relevant), but Fallout? Fallout is turn-based FFS! You're telling us that Radon Labs had the potential to create another Fallout or Arcanum? Based on what exactly? Nothing. I'm sorry, but being less next-gen then Fallout 3 is hardly inspiring and certainly doesn't validate your position.

 

[latexmonkeys]

And then you can explain what is old school about this title (that I cannot find for sale anywhere except in German).

From the screenshots I can see that the Drakensangs have bloom, lots and lots of bloom. Is bloom old school yet?
Also boobs, big ones. Now, I know those are old school.

 

[Delirius]

Call this a butthurt post, I don't care. Codex: WHAT THE HELL DO YOU GUYS WANT ?

You whine and moan and complain that all the evil big companies make shit like Fallout 3 and Mass effect. Then a game comes out from a German company which is an old-school PC-exclusive party-based RPG (an extinct breed !),and what do you guys do? You still whine and moan and complain.


Drakensang is a bit of a sad story for PC RPG fans. I loved the first game especially after I made my own modifications. I enjoyed it far more than Dragon Age, and the game was virtually bug free....compared to DA's patch debacle. Yet the game sold badly outside of Germany mainly due to horrible marketing from their publisher DTP.

So the only game company to make a decent PC-exclusive party based RPG (which you guys like to moan about), got bankrupt and then bought over by a company that makes casual online games.

I don't see how that is a good outcome for anyone who claims to care about PC RPG games. Where were the codexers when it came to supporting the first game? I know... you guys pirated it, called it shit, and went back to bitching about DA.


So instead of supporting companies willing to make "old school" party based, PC-exclusive RPG's you would prefer to wait under Bioware/Bethesda's table and hope that a crumb falls off.

Good luck ever getting that new Torment, or new BG 2 crumb that you guys are waiting for. Hint: That crumb will NEVER fall.

So because it's party based and PC exclusive I should fap to it? Just because it has those "old-school" elements as you called them?

I guess I should buy and praise Arcania too then since it has some "old-school" Gothic parts.

 

[Hoaxmetal]

Whiny faggots, better tell me if the game is any good.

 

[hoverdog]

it's pretty good. much, much better then its prequel. disappointingly short though.

 

[Cenobyte]

Maybe the problem is that I don't understand how these things are supposed to be displayed. Here's my hard luck dwarven druid with and without shield, he doesn't have any ranks of "shield fighting"

Just what you'd expect, he gets a 2nd parry for carrying a shield, but no bonus to parry.

Now here's korgan/oghren/kelgar/every other drunken dwarven warrior stereotype, he has "shield fighting 1"

Now if I'm reading the description right, he should get a +2 bonus to "shield parry" (the 2nd parry), but he's only getting +1.

Nah, it's a little bit more complex than that.

The parry value is always calculated like this:
Base parry value - 0,5 * effective handicap + Weapon skill + Weapon modifier (if any)

Furthermore, only the 2nd parry is influenced by the shield and shield parry. The first parry is ONLY influenced by your current weapon (imagine that you do one parry with your weapon and one with your shield per turn).

You can check out your current skill with a type of weaponry in the according menu in the character sheet. On levelups you can also adjust the parry and attack modifiers, but if you increase the parry value, your attack value will decrease (and vice versa).
The weapon modifiers of your current weapon (in contrast to the general modifiers provided by your skill with this type of weaponry) can be checked in the item description. There's an entry called "Waffenboni" with two numbers. The first is the bonus to attack, the second to parry. No boni or mali are also possible.

 

[Felix]

Should I put point into another weapon or just focus on one ?

 

[Cenobyte]

Depends.

In Drakensang you get practically flooded with skill points, so you can basically spend them where you want without much thoughts. In Drasa 2 there are fewer skill points and you should focus on your main skills and abilities.
At the same time, fighters doesn't have that many important skills, so they can afford to improve their skill in more than one weapon type. Mages and rogues should concentrate on one weapon.

Also keep in mind that you basically have your whole group from the very beginning and thus you can already plan how to develop the individual characters. For most talents, skills and abilities you need only one proficient party member.