The Obediah Test

[obediah]

I knew having one rogue-like was the key to getting some shit started. I just haven't played them enough to know which one.

I'm open to altering the games in the list. The goal is to cover every aspect of video games that could possible be considered rpg goodness. So while Diablo and FF VII are just shoved to the bottom of lists here, they are considered primo rpgs by some people.

I'd like to think the goal of this is that you can get an idea of someones idea of rpg at a quick glance, but it's probably all about making people get in arguments no matter how similiar they thought their tastes were.

 

[AnalogKid]

... but it's probably all about making people get in arguments no matter how similiar they thought their tastes were.

He he he, so you're just trolling, then?

(don't tell anyone, but that's partly why I was so rigid about Diablo. I love reading thnigs like "Dungeon crawlers are RPGs" and laughing my ass off!)

 

[Shagnak]

I demand a Wizardry in the list :evil:

Err...in order of "rpg-ness" rather than "what I like":

Fallout
Ultima VII
Planescape Torment
SSI Pools Of Radiance
Diablo + Nethack
Final Fantasy VII
Deus Ex

The top 3 are interchangeable.
Ummm...no...actually more than that are possibly. Harder than I thought.

 

[Zomg]

Fallout
SSI Pools Of Radiance
Planescape Torment
Deus Ex
Final Fantasy VII
Nethack
Diablo

DNP: U7

That list does not strongly correllate with quality. though, but rather essentially with what I want marketers to call an RPG. And even then, that's problematic - I want developers to make both Darklands and Fallout, but how exactly are those games in the same genre? They're completely different. It's a fucked up label.

I think part of the JRPG thing is that Japanese developers are still stuck on making games "cinematic", feeling like a movie, whereas I think Western developers want simulacrum nowadays. I just played Metal Gear Solid 3, which is so Japanese it hurts, and they still use fucking lens flare. Lens flare.

 

[deus]

Fallout, Torment, Ultima VII

Unordered
Deus Ex
Nethack, Diablo
FF7

Fallout, Torment and Ultima VII are pretty solidly rpgs.

The other four I don't consider rpgs, but they do overlap with them. Nethack and Diablo are dungeon crawls, plain and simple. I consider that to be a seperate, but related genre. Everything that exists in Nethack and Diablo could be in a "proper" rpg, so they are technically a subset, but the lack of any meaningful dialogue or story makes me hesitant to actually call them one.

Deus Ex is shooter with some role-playing elements. It mostly comes to the fact that the main emphasis is on twitch combat, plus the linearity in terms of objectives. Having twitch combat doesn't automatically something a shooter, e.g. Bloodlines, but twitch combat coupled with nearly absolute linearity does.

FF7 and for the most part all jrpgs are stuck in 80s mechanics-wise. FF1 I probably would consider an rpg for its time due to what Square had to work with. However, as time went on, it seems like most Japanese devs focused on fancier graphics and sound instead of updating the core gameplay. FF7 has the same pointless stat gains and the same shit battle system, more or less, FF4 had in the early 90s.

 

[LlamaGod]

The thing about Nethack is if you can think it up, you can probably do it. It's alot more deep then Diablo could wish to be.

 

[LlamaGod]

Nah in a goldbox mood. Which do you reckon was the best?

Secret of the Silver Blades has always been my favorite.

 

[roguefrog]

-played-

Planescape: Torment
Fallout
Deus Ex
Diablo
Final Fantasy 7

-unplayed-

Ultima 7
Nethack

 

[yipsl]

okay, obediah wrote dis

I think part of creating an account at the codex should be ordering the following games on their rpg-ness. And it should show at the bottom of every post, no explanations allowed just

X > Y > Z > A > 1 > 2

Diablo
Deus Ex
Fallout
Planescape Torment
SSI Pools Of Radiance
Ultima VII
Nethack
Final Fantasy VII

How about we do it in this post? Then we can KNOW.

Anywayz:

1.Fallout
2. Ultima VII
3. Planescape: Torment
4. Nethack
5. SSI Pools of Radiance
6. Diablo
7. Final Fantasy VII
8. Deus Ex

Kind of unfair for those of us who preferred other RPGs that are much better examples, but here's how I'll rate it:

1. Pools of Radiance (original Gold Box)
2. Ultima VII
3. Planescape Torment
4. Fallout
5. Final Fantasy VII
6. Diablo
7. Deus Ex

Nethack I've only heard mentioned, not even described, so I pass on rating that one.

Here's my preferred list to rate:

Dark Queen of Krynn
Realms of Arkania: Star Trail
Daggerfall
The Bard's Tale (original)
The Bard's Tale (new)
KOTOR
Baldur's Gate
Fable

Here's how they rate and why:

1. Realms of Arkania: Star Trail: Pure translation of RPG rules to the PC, with the best red herring plot I've ever seen in a game.

2. Dark Queen of Krynn: The best out of the Gold Box in many ways. Those were the days of the combat screen and the updated graphics didn't hurt gameplay.

3. The Bard's Tale (original): The best of the early home computer RPGs, first person explore, turn based party combat. Old school dungeon crawl at it's best. Bring your graph paper and get ready for a fun ride, and don't get killed by the dogs on the way from the inn to the weapons shop.

4. Daggerfall: Often mistaken for an action RPG, Daggerfall had choices that first person real time combat did not overshadow. The large game world was a blessing to both hard core CRPG gamers and "live another life" addicts. We'd all like to see Bethsoft do a Daggerfall for this generation, that is if this generation can handle it.

5. Baldur's Gate: Ushered in the era of Warcraft creep into the RPG arena. Fog of war? Characters saying "Right-O!" and "Don't touch me?" Still, despite all that and isometric gameplay, it had complex AD&D rules and did provide RPG choices.

6. KOTOR: An American Final Fantasy VII set in the Star Wars universe in some ways. It had a sort of turn based combat, a storyline as cinematic as any Final Fantasy, which was only muddled a bit by the sort of be good or turn evil options that work with the Force but didn't work in Fable.

7. The Bard's Tale (new): Still a good game, but it's about as RPG as Diablo and Dungeon Siege's daughter marrying the son of Men in Tights and Mrs Mainstreaming. What I wouldn't give for an updated The Bard's Tale (original) with the same kind of humor.

8. Fable, the Lost, New or Otherwise Added Five Hours Worth of Chapters: What can I say? It's the RPG Lite for the Next Generation? Oooh, you can be evil too and get kewl horns and uber stuff. You just can't go many places, do much of anything and not for much longer than 15 hours.

As much as my opinion matters, and having missed Fallout but played Wasteland, I'd probably place Fallout in the same category as Baldur's Gate. For some reason, the early Ultimas, the Magic Candle series and Realms of Arkania are the only isometric games I've loved.

Usually, I define RPG as a complex ruleset in a complex world explored in first person with combat either being old school turn based isometric combat screen or else first person. TES is the only "action" series I've ever loved. I'm not a twitch gamer at all.