The Magic Candle

[Nex]

Somebody should do a LP, hell, do the whole series!

 

[Beautiful Clown Painting]

"The magic candle" is the only classic serie that I still haven't played. And I can't get myself to start it, being too much used now to autonotes, questlogs or automaps. That's pretty ironic seing that I always force people around me who are genuinely interested in RPGs but who don't know the classics to take their fingers out of their asses and finally play "Dragon wars", "Ultima V" or "Wasteland".

That's the power of the popamole: even if you tripped like crazy on old-school goodness when you were young and are not afraid of its harshness (for you know that it grows on you), streamlining depletes you of your will. We are doomed and condemned to only TALK about these games and not play them anymore (except for some of the posters on this board, god bless them).

 

[Beautiful Clown Painting]

It's the same for me with "Alternate Reality: the Dungeon". One guy on the Lemon 64 board who has great taste in games says that it's as good as "Wasteland" (and I do trust him). But I just can't get myself to play it for its lack of automap, and I still wait like a moron for the release of its Windows remake which does include an automap. To think that I when I was young, I had folders full of maps drawn on paper graph and notebooks covered with NPC clues. I'm getting fucking old.

 

[octavius]

Well, mapping is no problem. The overworld is aleady mapped and the dungeon levels are quite small. There is an in game method of getting a view of the current dungeon level, just like in Ultima IV and V. In olden times you would copy that map to paper, but nowaday you can just use online maps for dungeons and towns after you've explored them. Or before, if you are really impatient.

When I played I wrote down all important dialogue in a text tile using Notebook, while playing the game in a window.

So that game isn't really that cumbersome. What made me get tired of the game was the combat. The combat engine is a bit better than Ultima V, but poorer than Demon's Winter, and slower than games like Bard's Tale, Phantasie and the early Might&Magics.
Also there is not much tactics involved and the encounters tend to get repetive after a while. And since you character max out their combat skills long before the end of the game, and since monster never leave any interesting loot, there is no incentive to battle more monsters.

I quit the the game after I've visited all the towns, cities and temples. I know what I have to do to win the game, but trudging through 5-6 more dungeons doesn't appeal to me.

 

[Beautiful Clown Painting]

The combat engine in Ultima V did not bother me at all. What I loved in Demon's winter were the diversity and textual description of the "dungeons": I fondly remember the first one which was an orc camp or something like that. Are the dungeons generic in Magic Candle or do they each have their personal flavor? (thinking about it makes me realize what I hated the most about Oblivion: much more than the moronic level scaling, it was the copypasta blandness of the generic dungeons).

 

[octavius]

The combat engine in Ultima V did not bother me at all.

Ultima V was saved by good encounter design and much phat lewt to find. U4 was horrible.

What I loved in Demon's winter were the diversity and textual description of the "dungeons": I fondly remember the first one which was an orc camp or something like that. Are the dungeons generic in Magic Candle or do they each have their personal flavor?

They have flavour. In one there are lots of moss and water, so you need a good stockpile of Sermins and Water Walk spells. Another is filled with lava, and a third has lots of magic fields that need to be dispelled.

 

[Beautiful Clown Painting]

Guess I'll have to play it then.

 

[Morkar Left]

Yes, you don't need to map the dungeons. It's even more funny to use magic for showing the map. For the towns you can just draw some sort of mindmap with writing down the shopnames and persons in the general direction you will encounter them:

Port........................ Smith......................jail


................gemcutter
............................... Tailor
.....................Inn

..........Hobo1..........................Hobo2


But taking notes will take some amount of time.
Most of the time you will avoid combat because besides gaining practice there is no loot.

The following MCs have more comfort including an ingame notesbook which automatically takes notes and you can write in it yourself (and even save and print the file).

 

[Old Hans]

I just finished MC1 myself. I love how everything is a big mystery that you slowly uncover. The way everything in the game is open ended is great. It stays consistently interesting the entire time. There were a few spots that left me clueless like getting the crystal dust or realizing the elf sorceress was held captive. (yea that ONE fucking room I decided to skip in the dungeon!!)

I ran into one game crashing bug though during the candle ritual which had something to do with the EGA graphics, but worked fine when I switched over to CGA.

Now im working on MC2 which really ramps up the combat difficulty thanks to diagonal ranged attacks and resisted spells. Plus the controls just feel a bit more clumsy.

 

[Luzur]

It's the same for me with "Alternate Reality: the Dungeon". One guy on the Lemon 64 board who has great taste in games says that it's as good as "Wasteland" (and I do trust him). But I just can't get myself to play it for its lack of automap, and I still wait like a moron for the release of its Windows remake which does include an automap. To think that I when I was young, I had folders full of maps drawn on paper graph and notebooks covered with NPC clues. I'm getting fucking old.

yes, maybe if i simply slap you in the face instead, would that help?

just play the game, draw the maps or get my fist in your face.

 

[Saxon1974]

Ah man you all are gonna make me have to start this game up again. I have played it a few times for a while but never finished. I don't really have the time to finish a game like this anymore anyway but I think im gonna start it up again.

So is MC2 really not worth playing? Most things I read say its not nearly as gods as MC1:

 

[Ammar]

Ah man you all are gonna make me have to start this game up again. I have played it a few times for a while but never finished. I don't really have the time to finish a game like this anymore anyway but I think im gonna start it up again.

So is MC2 really not worth playing? Most things I read say its not nearly as gods as MC1:

I like the first part better, but the second one probably deserves one playthrough. The combat is better and the dungeons are tough but have interesting features. IMO it's mostly the villages and cities that don't convey the same feeling and the main plot is sort of disappointing. I don't want to spoil it, but for example there is a particular groups of NPCs which should have a lot of interesting background information but don't really have any dialogue. It does not quite have the mystery of finding the Zirvanad and all the necessary components.

It's also harder figuring out what to do next. With MC 1 you always have interesting leads and the question is more which one to follow.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

I enjoyed MC2 thoroughly, and the battles are much better (read harder). MC1 is still the King though.

 

[Saxon1974]

EDIT: I forgot; on this wonderful website you can get all original cluebooks from mindcraft which I found nowhere before: http://www.mocagh.org/loadpage.php?getgame=mc1

Oh man that is a great site thanks for sharing!

It got me looking at all the old SSI titles and brought back lots of old memories.

I remember playing Demon's Winter ALOT.

What other ones pre-gold box from SSI are codex recommended? I think I played Eternal Dagger, Wizards Crown and REalms of Darkness but it's been so long I dont remember much.

Which is the best of that group for those that remember playing those games?

Rings of Zilfin and Shard of Spring look interesting too.'

Man lack of graphics and all I sure miss the "REAL" rpgs of the days of olde.

 

[octavius]

What other ones pre-gold box from SSI are codex recommended?

The Phantasie games are good and still enjoyable.

 

[Coyote]

It's the same for me with "Alternate Reality: the Dungeon". One guy on the Lemon 64 board who has great taste in games says that it's as good as "Wasteland" (and I do trust him). But I just can't get myself to play it for its lack of automap, and I still wait like a moron for the release of its Windows remake which does include an automap. To think that I when I was young, I had folders full of maps drawn on paper graph and notebooks covered with NPC clues. I'm getting fucking old.

Like octavius, I prefer to do such things on my computer rather than busting out a notebook nowadays. You might try searching for some dungeon-mapping software, of which there are several free programs available online (generally made for use by DMs in P&P); you still have to map it yourself, but it can make the task a lot quicker once you're accustomed to the program. (I had one program I really liked because it was intuitive, used minimal resources, and let you label things rather than using the preset tiles a lot of such programs use, but my laptop went kaput recently and I haven't been able to find it again.) Excel and similar programs can also work in a pinch (just fill in the cells with different colors or labels), though it takes more effort to make it look decent/readable as a map.

 

[mutile]

bloodstone is better

 

[crufty]

Mc ]|[ or bloodstone are the most playable.

Its a good series, a lot going on, but sometmes the grind can wear one down.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Its a good series, a lot going on, but sometmes the grind can wear one down.

What grind?

Many battles can be avoided easily with spells/hunting skill.

The Dungeons, except for one Dungeon in MC3, are not huge affairs and have a number of interesting areas in them.

I am not getting the whole 'grind' thing going on with these games. Could you elaborate?

 

[Morkar Left]

Its a good series, a lot going on, but sometmes the grind can wear one down.

What grind?

Many battles can be avoided easily with spells/hunting skill.

The Dungeons, except for one Dungeon in MC3, are not huge affairs and have a number of interesting areas in them.

I am not getting the whole 'grind' thing going on with these games. Could you elaborate?

He probably means the amount of preparation needed for questing which can get tiresome sometimes. And that the enemies have no loot / lack of equipment customization. The later is the only downside the series has for me, MC3 being my favorit.

 

[Saxon1974]

An excellent game. Unfortunately, I have yet to play the PC version and thus have never had the pleasure of taking my characters into the sequel. I won't give you any advice, as experimentation is enjoyable in this game.

Hey BlackAdder being that I assume you played the C64 version of the game....

What emulator did you use?

I started out with Vice but then switched to CCS64 because I like that it automatically goes into warp speed mode whenever the game loads.

I do find the C64 version of the game speed is a bit slow. I know you can speed up the emulator but I l ike to play the game in the original speed. I guess since this game is pure turbased it wouldnt hurt to turn up the speed to like 130% since nothing happens until you take a step anyway.

Also, I noticed that when my game went down to 999 days left is displays this on the screen "9990" days. That looks like 9,990 days. Is this normal for the C64 version or is this a bug?

Cheers

Edit post:

Ok now when I load up Magic Candle the days reads "999" so I guess it was some kind of screen glitch or something.

I tried the PC version of the game previously but I just hate the PC internal speaker sound effects, much better sound on C64. I dont think I will finish the game either so carrying my characters forward into the next game unlikely....

 

[BLOBERT]

BROS PHANTASIE 3 IS GREAT FUN I PLAHYED IT ON AN AMIGA EMULATOR IT PROBABLY HELPS THAT IT WAS MY FIRST CRPG AND A NOSTALGIA TRIP

 

[Saxon1974]

The magic candle is a heck of a game. There is so much to do and its not filled with tons of grindy combat like alot of the classic rpgs were...at least not yet since im not that far into it. It focuses on lots of information gathering through talking to people.

You definitely want to use Microsoft word to keep notes though as typing is much quicker than writing notes by hand.

I stayed up playing this last night till almost 3am when I had to work at 7. It shows this game was made as a labor of love by only a few people. The world is very large and just filled with nice little touches and npcs to talk to. When exploring the wilderness you find occasional cutscene art. Don't think I have scene much of that in older games.

No way a game like this gets made again unless its an Andy. Lots of decisions to make, you have to read and pay attention and its not linear at all.

I think I might lose more sleep this week.

Not sure if I should focus on working and training skills or just exploring at this point in the game though. I guess I will do some of both.

It strikes me odd that an old game like this with such primitive technology can engross me for hours on end when I have a hard time being entertained by modern rpgs.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Hey BlackAdder being that I assume you played the C64 version of the game....

What emulator did you use?

Vice is my usual, however, unless it is something like Knights of Legend with a redundant save system, I usually use my real C64.

And it is, indeed, a brilliant game.

BROS PHANTASIE 3 IS GREAT FUN I PLAHYED IT ON AN AMIGA EMULATOR IT PROBABLY HELPS THAT IT WAS MY FIRST CRPG AND A NOSTALGIA TRIP

Not at all. It is a great game with a simple system, so no need for nostalgia. Do you prefer the Amiga version?

 

[Saxon1974]

[
Vice is my usual, however, unless it is something like Knights of Legend with a redundant save system, I usually use my real C64.

Oh man you have a real working C64? Awesome I havent had mine in like 15 years. I think the load times would be tough for me to handle now though.

BROS PHANTASIE 3 IS GREAT FUN I PLAHYED IT ON AN AMIGA EMULATOR IT PROBABLY HELPS THAT IT WAS MY FIRST CRPG AND A NOSTALGIA TRIP

Not at all. It is a great game with a simple system, so no need for nostalgia. Do you prefer the Amiga version?[/quote]

I have a real boxed copy of Phantasie I but havent played it yet. Is it worth playing or should I skip 1 and 2 and just play three?