The John Tiller Thread of Hex Hell and Suffering

[jebsmoker]

On a grognard scale, where do you put this series? Let's assume that at the beginning of the scale, the casual side, are games like Panzer General and Strategic Command, at the top are games like Gary Grigsby series and such

roughly in the middle. easy to understand, hard to master

 

[Narushima]

I just recently discovered these games, not even through this thread, can't remember how, and I played the demo for Panzer Campaigns: Mius '43.

I would actually call these tactical rather than strategical, since there is no grand strategy to it. You have a closed map and units to move around. That's it. Apart from air attacks, which are essentially temporary units. There is no production, and from what I can tell, nothing apart from separate battles with no dynamic system.

From a technical standpoint, it's dreadful.
It's very ugly, there is no polish whatsoever, and almost no thought was put into the interface, where you have to keep clicking buttons to perform simple tasks and go into nested dropdown menus to access some functions. To give you an example, you can search for a unit by its name, but you have to use the exact correct case, otherwise it doesn't turn up anything.
During combat, the reaction fire makes everything frustratingly slow, and you can't alt-tab while it's happening, meaning your computer is essentially locked and you have to wait for the game to give you the control of your PC back.

Tactically speaking, I played as the Russians in the Mius battle on standard difficulty. I was anticipating to lose badly, expecting a hardcore game that only the best can master, but I actually won very, very easily; I destroyed the entire German army, losing 17,951 men to their 47,196, on turn 54 of 66 (the last few turns were spent hunting the remaining Germans). And that's with the Russians having to attack the heavily fortified German defense line and face the mighty panzers and 88 cm flak cannons.
I'm currently playing the same map on the German side to see if they are just at a massive disadvantage, or if the AI is simply shit.


That being said, I think I'll buy one of their Squad Battles game, since I prefer that scale, where you don't have to move a thousand units and always feel like you've missed some when you hit the End Turn button, and the enemy turn doesn't take literally several minutes.

In summary: Other companies (Matrix, Slitherine, etc.) have put more effort and budget into the same sort of thing and have done it better.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

https://georgiacremation.com/obituary/john-albert-tiller/

Sadly no longer with us

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

I just recently discovered these games, not even through this thread, can't remember how, and I played the demo for Panzer Campaigns: Mius '43.

I would actually call these tactical rather than strategical, since there is no grand strategy to it. You have a closed map and units to move around. That's it. Apart from air attacks, which are essentially temporary units. There is no production, and from what I can tell, nothing apart from separate battles with no dynamic system.

From a technical standpoint, it's dreadful.
It's very ugly, there is no polish whatsoever, and almost no thought was put into the interface, where you have to keep clicking buttons to perform simple tasks and go into nested dropdown menus to access some functions. To give you an example, you can search for a unit by its name, but you have to use the exact correct case, otherwise it doesn't turn up anything.
During combat, the reaction fire makes everything frustratingly slow, and you can't alt-tab while it's happening, meaning your computer is essentially locked and you have to wait for the game to give you the control of your PC back.

Tactically speaking, I played as the Russians in the Mius battle on standard difficulty. I was anticipating to lose badly, expecting a hardcore game that only the best can master, but I actually won very, very easily; I destroyed the entire German army, losing 17,951 men to their 47,196, on turn 54 of 66 (the last few turns were spent hunting the remaining Germans). And that's with the Russians having to attack the heavily fortified German defense line and face the mighty panzers and 88 cm flak cannons.
I'm currently playing the same map on the German side to see if they are just at a massive disadvantage, or if the AI is simply shit.


That being said, I think I'll buy one of their Squad Battles game, since I prefer that scale, where you don't have to move a thousand units and always feel like you've missed some when you hit the End Turn button, and the enemy turn doesn't take literally several minutes.

In summary: Other companies (Matrix, Slitherine, etc.) have put more effort and budget into the same sort of thing and have done it better.

I think the germans may be badly out-manned in that scenario, not sure though..it feels like it having played a few turns of the German side, I could be wrong though, I did not play that scenario long enough to know for certain.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

https://www.matrixgames.com/game/campaign-series-vietnam

So this is out now...

Anyone?.......

 

[jebsmoker]

shit, that's OUT? damn, i need to stop sleeping on the job

 

[Comte]

Dude the fog of war mechanics in this are outstanding. Viet Cong shoot at my joes then vanish into the jungle. They also got civilians in villages. I shot some pro Viet Cong civilians that I assume were giving them intel on my brigade cause a sniper was shooting at my guys. This is THE Vietnam game. Best computer Nam game I have ever played.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

Dude the fog of war mechanics in this are outstanding. Viet Cong shoot at my joes then vanish into the jungle. They also got civilians in villages. I shot some pro Viet Cong civilians that I assume were giving them intel on my brigade cause a sniper was shooting at my guys. This is THE Vietnam game. Best computer Nam game I have ever played.

awesome, good to hear, will be getting it later this weekend

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

https://tallyhocorner.com/2022/01/campaign-series-vietnam-review/

...
In lieu of campaigns Jason Petho and chums supply two monster missions – ‘A Week in Mekong’ and ‘A Week in Binh Long’. Each runs for 420 turns, utilises a staggeringly vast map, and presents players with a fresh set of objectives (patrol this area, clear that road, secure village X…) every in-game ‘day’. Gobsmacked by the cartography and scared witless by the sight of hundreds of friendly units patiently awaiting orders, the chance of me embarking on one of these magnificent widowmakers is Ho Chi Minhimal.

A word of warning before we press on. Because my membership of the Guild of Conscientious Game Reviewers has lapsed and I wanted to strike while the LZ was relatively hot, I’m writing this Wot I Think with zero experience of over two thirds of the 100+, replay-friendly* scenarios included in CS: Vietnam. The largely positive things I’m about to say about AI are based on five days with the sort of relatively short, relatively bijou challenges that I prefer.

* Enemies always spawn in the same place, but thanks to randomly assigned objectives, some of which alter dynamically as battles unfold, are unpredictable.

Helped by thick fog-of-war, plentiful cover, carefully engineered victory conditions, and a dash of Lua scripting, few of the foes I’ve attempted to humiliate thus far have shown much appetite for humiliation. Having been brutally ambushed and stealthily infiltrated more times than I care to admit, having chased shadows, been lured into minefields, and watched numerous friendly outposts fall to multi-directional, arty-supported attacks during the past week, I wouldn’t hesitate to rate CS: Vietnam’s “adaptive”, “nation-tuned” AI B+. To wring a higher rating out of me the CPU would need to demonstrate helicopter assault competence. It might just be bad luck, but I’ve yet to encounter a scenario in which the enemy is given stewardship of Hueys, Chinooks, Choctaws or Flying Bananas.

...

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

I never ended up getting campaign series vietnam because real life got too busy, but just recently Matrix/ Slitherine sent me a 50% off loyal customer coupon and was thinking of getting it, my only other game I was considering was 'wego: Wolrd War II Stalingrad'...

Anybody happen to play both games and have an opinion? Probably unlikely I realize...lol...but thought I might try before I make my choice....

https://www.matrixgames.com/game/wego-world-war-ii-stalingrad

 

[Victor1234]

I never ended up getting campaign series vietnam because real life got too busy, but just recently Matrix/ Slitherine sent me a 50% off loyal customer coupon and was thinking of getting it, my only other game I was considering was 'wego: Wolrd War II Stalingrad'...

Anybody happen to play both games and have an opinion? Probably unlikely I realize...lol...but thought I might try before I make my choice....

https://www.matrixgames.com/game/wego-world-war-ii-stalingrad

It's probably too late by now, but I'd go for Campaign Series Vietnam if only because of the variety of play and the setting. The WW2 setting has been done to death in hex based wargames and this one is very typical of the genre as well. Incidentally if you still have a valid coupon I can recommend some better Matrix/Slitherine games besides these 2.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

I never ended up getting campaign series vietnam because real life got too busy, but just recently Matrix/ Slitherine sent me a 50% off loyal customer coupon and was thinking of getting it, my only other game I was considering was 'wego: Wolrd War II Stalingrad'...

Anybody happen to play both games and have an opinion? Probably unlikely I realize...lol...but thought I might try before I make my choice....

https://www.matrixgames.com/game/wego-world-war-ii-stalingrad

It's probably too late by now, but I'd go for Campaign Series Vietnam if only because of the variety of play and the setting. The WW2 setting has been done to death in hex based wargames and this one is very typical of the genre as well. Incidentally if you still have a valid coupon I can recommend some better Matrix/Slitherine games besides these 2.

I have many matrix/slitherine games, like over 50 of them... so you might suggest ones I already have..but what would you suggest? Am looking to use it on a newer/expensive game since it gives 50% off...cheaper older games I can just buy for cheaper.. I have not used coupon yet, and it is good for a long time, was thinking of getting the Vietnam game, they said they would be adding some free campaign DLC to it eventually which if it existed already I would have already bought it...am looking forward to their remake of East Front which I guess they say all this remake of the campaign series engine is building up to...

 

[Victor1234]

Just looking at their new releases section I can easily recommend almost everything but ones in particular:

Command Modern Operations: The reboot of the old Harpoon series but with more air. Tons of official and community content. The "Iron Hand" scenario in particular will explain the current air war stalemate in Ukraine far better than any youtube video or talking head on TV could. The US Naval Academy (IIRC) uses a professional edition as a training tool.

Alea Jacta Est: Great Roman strategy games from AGEOD. I like Roman stuff so it's a must buy but their other games are good too. Revolution under Siege and Birth of America 2 are good settings and scale if you're looking for a bit more modern, I tried To End All Wars too but the scale was too much for me to enjoy that in particular.

Combat Mission Black Sea: When they say it's a military grade simulation, they mean it. The British military use this for actual wargaming these days. Similar to Close Combat but 3D. I also liked Combat Mission Afghanistan and their old WW2 Barbarossa to Berlin but I don't think Matrix publishes those or if Battlefront kept it for themselves.

Decisive Campaigns Series: I played Barbarossa. Very well done in my opinion. Kind of like Panzer General but for a single scenario with RPG elements. More games would benefit from portraying relationships among leaders.

The Operational Art of War 4: It's a must buy, but I feel only if you haven't gotten 3 yet. It was less of a revolution than an evolution, but TOAW 3/4 is the best on the market for hex based wargaming on land. Anything Grisby's land lubber scenarios (War in the West, War in the East, etc) can do, this can do the same or better. It's also got literal decades of community development behind it as the wargamers all converged on it. Do you want to play a janky version of the Punic Wars? There's a scenario for that...do you like the American civil war? You can play that. Do you miss the days when Spain ruled the world? There's a scenario for that. The only real flaws (which they haven't fixed in 4 either, if you ask me) are that insurgency is poorly portrayed (which is why I'd recommend the Campaign Series Vietnam) and the naval side is weak. That being said, the Campaign for South Vietnam 1965-1975 has got to be one of the best insurgency scenarios I've ever played in a wargame, even though Vietnam was a very mixed conflict so it lends itself to bigger units.

Order of Battle: A Panzer General successor, good beer & pretzels but slightly more brainy than Panzer Corps. I liked the line of supply element but not how expensive replacements were/how you needed to buy your veteran units back after importing them into a new campaign. Sort of defeats the point of importing them one might say....

Shadow Empire: I haven't played but seems good based on reviews and made by the Decisive Campaigns guys

Distant Worlds: 1 was great, I still play it and have a blast, but 2 is supposed to have come out very buggy. I'm also not convinced it was such a leap forward. My impression is they focused on improving graphics over gameplay.

War in the Pacific: Admirals Edition: Do you like WW2 in the Pacific? Did you have a distant relative who fought in it? He's probably a counter on the map somewhere, it's that detailed. I should mention Gary Grisby's Eagle Day to Bombing the Reich too. It's also that crazy level of detail, but for the air war over Europe.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

Have played Operational Art of War 3 many hours, its a great game, same with WiTP:AE, probably played Eagle Day to Bombing the Reich though more than any other game you posted..like 800-1000 hours or more, noticed it got a recent patch/update and was thinking about rebooting it. Only 2 games I don't have on your list in fact are Alea Jacta Est and Command Modern Operations. I have thought about buying Alea Jacta Est a couple times but only reason I did not was because I thought I recalled buying an older AGEOD game about American Civil War or maybe Battle for Independence and not understanding it..lol..but that was quite awhile ago. It seems like if I can figure out how to play War in the East, War in the Pacific, World in Flames etc..I should be able to figure it out, but I can't remember why I did not understand it now, but it might have been a different game anyway, I do think it was about the civil war though.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

I bought Campaign Series: Vietnam, for people who like wargames this game is fucking dope as fuck. Thought I would not like it because no campaign, but the new event system they have created makes it extremely immersive, and there are two 420 turn long 'A week in......' scenarios that are sort of like campaigns, being that supply and reinforcements are a thing. They are also creating some linking campaign DLC.

Supposedly this is all working up for them to remake Eastfront II, which w/ this new engine would be amazing.

​

 

[Victor1234]

I bought Campaign Series: Vietnam, for people who like wargames this game is fucking dope as fuck. Thought I would not like it because no campaign, but the new event system they have created makes it extremely immersive, and there are two 420 turn long 'A week in......' scenarios that are sort of like campaigns, being that supply and reinforcements are a thing. They are also creating some linking campaign DLC.

Supposedly this is all working up for the engine to remake Eastfront II, which w/ this new engine would be amazing.

​

Glad you liked it. I personally like the way they incorporated even the lesser known stuff like....any French Indochinese battle aside from Dien Bien Phu.

 

[jebsmoker]

campaign series: vietnam is one of the best turn-based strategy games ever made as long as you don't mind the fact that the ui is obtuse and about as user-friendly as a spreadsheet or tax program from 1994

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

I bought Campaign Series: Vietnam, for people who like wargames this game is fucking dope as fuck. Thought I would not like it because no campaign, but the new event system they have created makes it extremely immersive, and there are two 420 turn long 'A week in......' scenarios that are sort of like campaigns, being that supply and reinforcements are a thing. They are also creating some linking campaign DLC.

Supposedly this is all working up for the engine to remake Eastfront II, which w/ this new engine would be amazing.

​

Glad you liked it. I personally like the way they incorporated even the lesser known stuff like....any French Indochinese battle aside from Dien Bien Phu.

I bought Campaign Series: Vietnam, for people who like wargames this game is fucking dope as fuck. Thought I would not like it because no campaign, but the new event system they have created makes it extremely immersive, and there are two 420 turn long 'A week in......' scenarios that are sort of like campaigns, being that supply and reinforcements are a thing. They are also creating some linking campaign DLC.

Supposedly this is all working up for the engine to remake Eastfront II, which w/ this new engine would be amazing.

​

Glad you liked it. I personally like the way they incorporated even the lesser known stuff like....any French Indochinese battle aside from Dien Bien Phu.

yeah that has been my favorite part so far, then I stop the game and find some old documentaries and war photos from the era..there were some incredible hi-def color videos I was watching in this documentary below, hi-def video from 1937 Vietnam, it looks so crisp-- its truly amazing to look at those people in that peaceful setting and realize what they are about to experience with a new world war, then the following wars into the late 70's. At one point they show a parade of french military men, vehciles and horses, marching in vietnam for the locals while celebrating 20 years since the end of WW1, with the official start of WW2 just a year away. I guess they are already fighting in Japan and China at this point, so obviously people could likely sense it coming...



That is one thing I love about these type of games, I can't help myself from constantly stopping and learning about little details included in the game, and this game has many.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

campaign series: vietnam is one of the best turn-based strategy games ever made as long as you don't mind the fact that the ui is obtuse and about as user-friendly as a spreadsheet or tax program from 1994

I am used to the interface having played many of tillers older games which use the same basic interface. It is actually much improved now, with many quality of life features. Almost everything has a hot key and also a corresponding button, and the hot key can be found easily by hovering over the buttons or looking at the hot-key list under help. It looks like a lot of buttons, but you can have it display all of them, or in various groupings, and its very easy to move back and forth between these various UI states now. It is much more streamlined than previous versions of the engine, eventually you memorize it all and it is quite easy to use, at least IMO.