The Game Awards 2021 - December 9th

[Gargaune]

I hate it when devs try to get too philosophical with genre definitions, in doing so they often miss the forest for the trees.
Yes you can construct a sensible and not completely empty definition that allows "immersive sim" to encompass more than games like Deus Ex, but why would we want that? When I see a new game that markets itself as an "immersive sim" I expect a gameplay experience that's similar to Deus Ex, SS2, Dishonored, etc. And an isometric game is simply not going to deliver that experience.

Raph wants people to know that his new game follows the same design principles as all his previous games despite being the first to not use a first person presentation.

Colantonio understandably wants to leverage his credentials as a veteran Immersive Sim developer and carry that clout over to his new, smaller project, but Weird West won't follow "the same design principles as all his previous games", the choice of perspective indicates a change in vision that will likely reverberate, it's not as trivial as "presentation" would imply in the general scope of the experience. I genuinely respect the man, his Arkane has been instrumental in perpetuating and consolidating the LGS school of design after ISA sunk and Irrational produced Bioshock, but that "isometric immersive sim" line is marketing agitprop.

 

[Roguey]

Colantonio understandably wants to leverage his credentials as a veteran Immersive Sim developer and carry that clout over to his new, smaller project, but Weird West won't follow "the same design principles as all his previous games", the choice of perspective indicates a change in vision that will likely reverberate, it's not as trivial as "presentation" would imply in the general scope of the experience. I genuinely respect the man, his Arkane has been instrumental in perpetuating and consolidating the LGS school of design after ISA sunk and Irrational produced Bioshock, but that "isometric immersive sim" line is marketing agitprop.

Did you watch the latest gameplay trailer? I don't see the difference between that and Arkane's other games.

 

[Gargaune]

Did you watch the latest gameplay trailer? I don't see the difference between that and Arkane's other games.

I just did, for you, and I saw a pretty big one right off the bat: I was looking at the protagonist from a disembodied camera far up in the sky. In his previous games, I was seeing the world from a camera stuck right there in the protagonist's head. You know, his previous games being Immersive Sims, it was kind of a given.

Look, jokes aside, I get what you're saying but you missed my point there - Weird West doesn't follow all the design principles of his previous games because perspective is part of the design, it's kind of a big deal in the experience you get and minimising it as mere "presentation" is a bit of a disservice. "Presentation" would be more like whether you play L.A. Noire in colour or black-and-white. I haven't dealt with Ultima VI, oldest I got was VIII, but are you saying you get the same sort of experience from it as you do from Ultima Underworld?

And to loop this back to my base argument, the Immersive Sim is a thing and we know what it looks and plays like, and it ain't Weird West. I get why Colantonio's taking this marketing angle, but it just ain't.

 

[mediocrepoet]

So does anyone who actually plays games actually like this shitty show?

 

[Wyatt_Derp]

So does anyone who actually plays games actually like this shitty show?

Best esports coach, best innovation in accessibility, best game support, etc. We're a couple of years away from 'best gaming emotional support animal', or 'best online gaming harassment blocker.'

 

[Morgoth]

People actually watch these rancid shows? I just wait till the next day and watch the trailers.

 

[mediocrepoet]

People actually watch these rancid shows? I just wait till the next day and watch the trailers.

That's usually what I do too. I did this year because of the Dragon's Dogma 2 rumours. Never again.

 

[Anonymous Wife Scholar]

'best gaming emotional support animal'

We did win Missilebros! We did!

 

[Roguey]

That's usually what I do too. I did this year because of the Dragon's Dogma 2 rumours. Never again.

The trailers are uploaded to youtube within minutes of airing. All you have to do is just refresh those channels.

 

[Child of Malkav]

All you have to do is just refresh those channels.

Not even. If you're subscribed to gaming news channels you can just click the bell icon for notifications and all of them there are refreshed everytime you click on it. No need at all to refresh the whole page.

 

[purupuru]

I don't see the difference between that and Arkane's other games.

If you think of it in an abstract way then yes many gameplay elements in Weird West are present in other immersive sims. But playing a game is not the same as theorizing about it, the way the content is actually delivered to the player matters. Say you input password on a keypad and open a safe, in 1st person, ideally you can see and press the corresponding keys on the keypad, then the door swings open, and you can choose the grab the items you want and the items models would have some physics interaction. In top down view it's just over all much less involved, you might as well make it a text prompt with skill check. Now you can say all that is just fluff and one shouldn't care that much about it, but the camera angle could have gameplay implications as well. For example in the trailer you can just see enemies behind walls and closed doors and that's not how Arkane's other games works (at least not without specific skill/power).

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Immersive sim is not a real genre.

 

[Roguey]

Say you input password on a keypad and open a safe, in 1st person, ideally you can see and press the corresponding keys on the keypad, then the door swings open, and you can choose the grab the items you want and the items models would have some physics interaction. In top down view it's just over all much less involved, you might as well make it a text prompt with skill check.

Prey is the only game that does the "if you see a keypad you can press the numbers without zooming in on it" that I can remember. System Shock 1 and 2, Deus Ex, etc all have a keypad UI pop up when you click on the keypad. It's functionally no different when doing that from a third person perspective.

Now you can say all that is just fluff and one shouldn't care that much about it, but the camera angle could have gameplay implications as well. For example in the trailer you can just see enemies behind walls and closed doors and that's not how Arkane's other games works (at least not without specific skill/power).

This is a preference thing and nothing to do with systems and how they interact.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

"Immersive sim" is a phrase used by people who don't play roguelikes to explain mechanics that are commonplace in most roguelikes.
https://nethack.fandom.com/wiki/The_DevTeam_Thinks_Of_Everything

 

[AwesomeButton]

Man, video game industry is so much filled with man babies, even the scandals are lame, oh shock, Kotick wasnt going to leave his yatch to save miss Danger Hair from nerds farting on her desk or whatever retarded shit they do at Blizzard. Also, dont forget, a breastfeeding woman needed to leave a room and people made jokes during trannie education hour, mah God, I gonna die to such misoginy.

I have to say though, that the scandal is so lame, that I see it winning the Game Awards.

https://twitter.com/betterthemask/status/1468747871453339650?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1468771324218646530|twgr^|twcon^s3_&ref_url=

male employees stole their lactating colleagues’ breast milk at Blizzard

ActiBlizz is competing with EA, Take 2 and Square-Enix for the worst AAA publisher this year.

"Lactating colleagues" got me

 

[lycanwarrior]

Man, video game industry is so much filled with man babies, even the scandals are lame, oh shock, Kotick wasnt going to leave his yatch to save miss Danger Hair from nerds farting on her desk or whatever retarded shit they do at Blizzard. Also, dont forget, a breastfeeding woman needed to leave a room and people made jokes during trannie education hour, mah God, I gonna die to such misoginy.

I have to say though, that the scandal is so lame, that I see it winning the Game Awards.

https://twitter.com/betterthemask/status/1468747871453339650?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1468771324218646530|twgr^|twcon^s3_&ref_url=

male employees stole their lactating colleagues’ breast milk at Blizzard

ActiBlizz is competing with EA, Take 2 and Square-Enix for the worst AAA publisher this year.

"Lactating colleagues" got me

It's no longer breastfeeding, bigot!

It's now "chestfeeding"

 

[mediocrepoet]

Man, video game industry is so much filled with man babies, even the scandals are lame, oh shock, Kotick wasnt going to leave his yatch to save miss Danger Hair from nerds farting on her desk or whatever retarded shit they do at Blizzard. Also, dont forget, a breastfeeding woman needed to leave a room and people made jokes during trannie education hour, mah God, I gonna die to such misoginy.

I have to say though, that the scandal is so lame, that I see it winning the Game Awards.

https://twitter.com/betterthemask/status/1468747871453339650?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1468771324218646530|twgr^|twcon^s3_&ref_url=

male employees stole their lactating colleagues’ breast milk at Blizzard

ActiBlizz is competing with EA, Take 2 and Square-Enix for the worst AAA publisher this year.

"Lactating colleagues" got me

You insensitive asshole. There are people feeling real life pain here!

 

[purupuru]

This is a preference thing and nothing to do with systems and how they interact.

Visual information of enemy placement (and how the player should obtain it) is among the most important aspects of a stealth system. I don't necessarily prefer one way to the other, but being able to see the whole battlefield and see through walls is very different from only being able to see what's in front of you.
Now honestly, stealth does not seem like it's gonna be a major part of Weird West (there is one scene where the character sneaks behind someone, but most of the trailer is running and gunning), but that just makes me wonder even more how "there is no difference between this and Arkane's other games."

 

[Roguey]

Now honestly, stealth does not seem like it's gonna be a major part of Weird West (there is one scene where the character sneaks behind someone, but most of the trailer is running and gunning), but that just makes me wonder even more how "there is no difference between this and Arkane's other games."

Looks like a tool that can be used to gain an advantage, same as any of their other stealth action games.

 

[purupuru]

a tool that can be used to gain an advantage

Isn't that like, everything gameplay related in a video game?

 

[Roguey]

Isn't that like, everything gameplay related in a video game?

There are stealth games where you're expected to be stealthy all the time and there are stealth action games which are designed in such a way that allow you to be stealthy all or most of the time, and then there are stealth action games where you gain an advantage from taking opponents unaware but will inevitably find yourself in a situation where you can't be stealthy. This looks like the last one, not all that different from Dark Messiah or Prey.

 

[Maggot]

We're talking about Arkane, where all their somewhat recent games already have powers that let you get wallhacks, time stop, and teleportation, not Thief where you have to lean into doors and guesstimate where the patrols are relative to you. I don't think the perspective change is going to affect any of that.

 

[KörangarTheMighty]

You insensitive asshole. There are people feeling real life pain here!

Blizzard Coomers are so thirsty they resort to second-hand titty sucking.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

putting your breast milk in the fridge is kind of gross

 

[Silverfish]

We're a couple of years away from 'best gaming emotional support animal'