From Software The Dark Souls II Megathread™

[SomeGuyWithAnOpinion]

Any post containing the word clunky can be safely ignored. It is simply a term retards use when they're too stupid to articulate why they don't like something, which, if they had, would invariably be "it feels different from the thing I am used to". But, retards being retards, they don't stop to think about why they don't like it, and certainly not whether the "clunkiness" might actually serve a purpose.

Hmm....if only I had followed that up with multiple paragraphs of reasoning and explanations, which you completely ignored.

 

[Ryzer]

The problem being that DS3 is all Dark Souls mistakes in top of a braindead linear level design that nullfies any replayability.
It feels like a mindless cashgrab for the masses. Bloodborne, strangely enough, doesn't have that even though in the end, it has a linear path to the end boss.

 

[Child of Malkav]

ADP is a good idea on paper, but in practice it essentially becomes a mandatory roll stat. With the animations not changing between levels to a noticeable degree, having low ADP essentially results in your rolls LOOKING like they should work, when they in fact don't (I can't remember off the top of my head, but I think low ADP literally has 1 iframe). Rolls that would previously work in DS1 now don't because of the shortened iframes. Given the already questionable hitboxes of the Dark Souls series, this compounds into a frustrating mess of confusion after getting hit where you're not quite sure if your ADP was too low, or the game just flat out broke.

So you don't like that the animations don't change to show different levels of ADP.
Are you serious? There was a ring in DkS3 that increased iframes. I didn't see any animation changes there. Nor in ER. Good in theory, bad in practice. Right?
And if you on YouTube you will find (to your shock) that there are level 1 runs or runs with base ADP. It can be done, it was done.
I don't like to say this but in your case I'll make an exception: git gud!
Also assuming you refer to the grab animations since all mouth breathers do, the problem is with the animation queue not the hit boxes. There's a problem that hasn't been solved by sotfs in that when you roll through a grab and you roll incorrectly the grab animation should interrupt you roll animation but it doesn't. Instead it queues up. So that after your rolling animation is over, the grab animation is started. Again, bug. There are plenty of videos and clips explaining this with hit boxes being shown in DS map studio I think it's the name of the tool.

Light management and torches was supposed to be a good idea too, but the game is so bright there's literally no reason to ever carry a torch. SotFS somewhat fixed this by adding some genuinely dark areas, however the mechanics essentially become "light sconce, put torch away". When there's no enemies nearby, this mechanic is pointless, when there are enemies nearby, this mechanic is tedious and annoying. The Torch being on a timer is supposed to add resource management, but generally the timers are really high to the point where you don't have to worry. If you end up playing badly through a section and DO run out of time, you're doubly fucked because now you won't be able to see, so have fun farming The Gutter to find more.

You need torches for the gutter. There are many torches throughout the game. Genuinely baffled how someone could possibly run out but whatever..
As for light and darkness, how can you say that it's annoying with enemies around? It presents a dilemma that's efficiently solved with the tools you have. You have weapons for different situations. You can choose to hold a torch and fight one handed or go shield or two handing or powerstancing some weapons. Or use spells with a torch. Plus during the sinner fight whether you lit the room affects lock on range making the fight harder. Torches also scare away spiders and those creatures in no man's wharf. Plus you have to be careful when going underneath some water or rolling through water as that will extingush the torch, a mechanic that's not present in ER fyi.
Yeah, it's not as required as in tombs of the Giants but then again once you took the maggot helm thingy in DkS1 it was easy mode in that area. You also had a light spell and a skull lantern (which had to be held like a torch). So what was the point of it then? Why complain about it here and not in DkS1?

Lockstones and Fragrant Branches are also a good idea on paper, since more resource expenditure can be really interesting. Unfortunately, half the lockstones are completely useless trolls, or are MP focused (like dimming the lights in a dungeon, which can actually HURT you in singleplayer), and you won't know which one does what, and since you can't reload a previous save due to the design of the bonfire system, a limited resource is now wasted because you got unlucky. Fragrant Branches aren't as bad, almost all of them always lead to something good, however there is one fragrant branch that leads to another fragrant branch, and there's only enough branches in the game to unlock every statue, meaning if you do them in the wrong order you will be locked out of one of them through no fault of your own. Again, good idea, horrendous implementation.

Half are trolls? Meaning what exactly? MP related? The game has an MP component with a large portion of the playerbase interacting with it. There are also covenants dedicated to various aspects of MP. What's wrong with this?
As for fragrant branches I, me personally haven't heard of someone being locked out if you go on a different order but I guess it's possible. If that happens there's always NG+ unless I'm forgetting something. Going through NG+ is encouraged also by the fact that it brings unique changes and unique items exclusive only to higher cycles. Or you play games once and that's it?

Lifegems are a nice alternative to estus, giving slower life regeneration that's designed to be used outside of combat. And yet they provide more mobility during use than the estus and a faster animation (for some reason), and can be farmed or bought in infinite quantities, resulting in you being able to carry 99 of them at any given time. This was supposed to augment the healing system in an interesting way, and instead just ends up completely undermining it, to the point where you should be able to heal through every fight. The regen ring is also findable very early, meaning that healing between fights is trivial and any sort of long-term health management goes completely out the window. One of the best aspects of DS1 was how limited estus was, making long runs (like the first trip through Undead Burg past the Taurus Demon) extremely challenging for first-timers because few mistakes were permitted. Humanity somewhat undermines this and is farmable infinitely, but outside of the DLC still remains relatively rare for most of the game. In DS2 you can buy lifegems in infinite quantities after completing the first area. DS3 is probably the best here, as it's healing is inherently limited and can't be augmented with farming at all, since Ember only works once per life, leaving you with Estus and the occasional Divine Blessing for healing, which gives much of the same feeling of tension as your mistakes matter as much as they do in DS1.

Don't want options: the paragraph.
Gems heal you slowly, way slower than estus. And you have to use more than one of you want to stack their effects. Doing this mostly results in you getting hit or killed if you try to rely on this tactic. Estus heals you way faster. Mobility doesn't matter much when you move like a snail trying to avoid some attack.
The regen ring heals you even slower. That thing isn't reliable in the slightest unless you pause and wait after every fight to heal which would be madness.
But you know what the best part of this is? You can choose not to buy any of them. What? You think that 99 gems are going to save you when you're ambushed or you're fighting more than 3 enemies at once or you aggro more of them? Maybe estus, barely.
I won't mention DkS3 because that game has iframes instead of healing. You're always rolling in that slop. Taking damage is barely a thing. And 0.1% stamina consumption so you can roll fior days.

DS2 also has a lot of design which I believe actively trolls the player, in a really bad way. There are many instant-death pits that look barely different from the normal terrain (especially in the dark, The Gutter is notorious for this), bosses crammed into absolutely tiny rooms to make them as annoying to fight as possible, "spambushes" where otherwise normal looking rooms have upwards of 10-15 regular enemies crammed into them, which all attack you at once (often from behind), floors that give way to lava, killing you instantly, and numerous other traps like doors that lock behind you. DS1 obviously had these too, but most were limited to Sens Fortress (which was inherently designed as a trap-laden labyrinth), and were generally rare outside of that location. Probably the most egregious sin of DS2's design is hiding the main blacksmith behind a semi-secret area that's easy to miss, which just completely fucks over new players entirely.

You can avoid almost all of the traps if you look around and using your eyes and......*collective gasps* going slowly, not rushing through areas. That shit only works in DkS3 and ER where there's no sense of sp-- no sense of anything really.
Also I'm curious, which room has you fighting 15 enemies in? I honestly don't remember. But usually if somehow that is the case then those enemies are rats (you can use horizontal attacks to kill them easily), skeletons (use yearn or alluring skulls to distract them), spiders (have a torch out, you know, that useless thing?) and other such easy ones to fight.
A few bits: floors that give way to lava. Are you talking about the ones on iron keep with the turtle knights and allobe ones? The ones you can clearly see together with the pressure plate that you can avoid? And doors that lock behind you? Oh, like the one in ER in stormveil? Like that? I hear no criticism of that.
And the blacksmith? You referring to Ornifex?
You go on some planks and fall through. The hole is huge. It's very hard to miss if you go normally through it.
Btw, in the gutter you should be using torches (that useless thing again) and look around whee you go.
Why didn't you mention shrine of Amana? Those ledges that you can fall through in deep waters of you go too far? How do see those? Hmmm.......
Also even when playing DkS1 you need to pay attention to your environment for holes, pressure plates and other traps. Including mimic chests. Hmm, didn't those pose a problem for you? In DkS2 even more so, considering that traversing and surviving the hostile environments you traverse are far more insidious and punishing than before. Getting to a boss fight could be seen as reward in itself. But also very satisfying.
Also why didn't you complain about the guys that sit in some places and push you off a ledge? You can avoid that by....turning the camera around a corner, see the enemy and use a fure bomb or yearn, or an aide spell, or shoot an arrow in a nearby wall to distract them. Well look at that, seems like they're avoidable and you have options and tools to deal with such cases.
Also, in DkS3 there's also a guy in the prison area that pushes you off a ledge, slugs falling from the ceiling in the demon ruins area, mini boss that spawns once you get on the bridge to Irithyll. And many more. So many more. Spambushes should be DkS3's middle name. The game is filled with them. No complaint there. Why? Because you can simply roll your to the credits screen and nothing matters. You can't do the same in DkS2, you have to stay your ground, pick your battles or prepare when you see a possible ambush location. You do have an infinite inventory after all.

The TL;DR is, don't play DS2. It's not worth it. If you want an interesting game with lots of build diversity that doesn't hold your hand without being total bullshit, play DS1. If you want a fun Soulslike with really good combat and smooth gameplay, play DS3. Just don't ever play DS2 for any reason, other than completionism or to explore it from a game-analysis perspective.

And here we go. Bandwagon hater retard speak. Nothing but easily debunkable arguments that parrots like you bring up over and over. You hate the game because it's not an exact copy of DkS1. Well, not you, you're a lost cause but the veterans, those who started with DkS1 or *yet another gasp* Demon's souls. Although there's a remake now for the likes of you unfortunately.
The only thing and I mean the only thing that DkS3 does good is the boss fights and the boss fight music. That's it. But that's a boss rush game anyway. That doesn't have the possibility for you to refight bosses. DkS2 had bonfire ascetics and Sekiro had a idol menu to select basically what boos you want to fight, or fight harder versions of some of them and get rewarded with outfits for going through a boss rush gauntlet.
Yet another aspect that Roll Slop 3 lacks, besides an identity of any kind.

 

[Hell Swarm]

DS2 had the potential to be significantly better than DS1, as it tried a lot of new ideas and made genuine attempts to improve the gameplay in interesting ways,

Dark souls 2 wasn't 'trying new ideas' as much as it was returning to Demon's souls style of dungeon exploration.

The TL;DR is, don't play DS2. It's not worth it. If you want an interesting game with lots of build diversity that doesn't hold your hand without being total bullshit, play DS1. If you want a fun Soulslike with really good combat and smooth gameplay, play DS3. Just don't ever play DS2 for any reason, other than completionism or to explore it from a game-analysis perspective.

Build diversity is literally the last thing any one who cares about this series is really invested in. It's PvP fans who are obsessed with slightly different move sets and 'smooth gameplay' despite Dark souls 1 playing like absolute shit out the box and not much better with DSfix.

My argument has NOTHING to do with mindlessly completing checklists and everything to do with the game actively punishing you for playing it in the wrong order - an order it never specifies, so it's purely down to luck. This isn't some mindless Uncharted fanboy upset because they couldn't find 100% of collectibles in their mindless open world game. This is a resource-based system in a videogame, one that's designed to incentivise finding certain items, prioritising one player choice over another. If you don't understand the problems that dominant strategies cause for game design then I really don't know what to say, you clearly don't understand videogames.

You seem to have a personal issue with the game holding you accountable for your decisions. Especially with the game intentionally offering you an easy but bad choice and then punishing you for taking them.

This is literally just the game fucking random people over for no reason because it's badly designed.

It's not badly designed for doing that, it's an intentional part of the design and it's something us old school souls fans miss from the newer games. I can find thousands of games that smooth the edges off everything and makes it baby mode for casuals. I can't find another experience like Demon's souls because people like you actually want to have your hand held and never face consequences for decisions. I enjoy lockstones being limited and having to decide if I want to risk using one here or not. I don't like how Scholar uses branches but I did like it in the base game. I made a choice to go down a path and which areas to unlock. The game gave me agency in my path and I knew if I picked one I had to do something else later. I don't like constant respecing and knowing where I put my stats don't really matter because I can always bonfire out and respec if I find a better weapon later. I enjoy seeing a room full of enemies behind closed bars and knowing if I open that door they get out too and how do I deal with that? How do I deal with a soldier ambushing me from a higher location or deal with dogs rushing me. These are decisions and interactions that matter and I can't get those in dark souls 3. The demon ruins in DaS3 is supposed to be trapped and the biggest trap is trying to fight the fireball summoning demons or the ninja demons because both have annoyingly difficult move sets. There's no depth to that challenge though. But there is depth is paying attention to the floor because the castle wall in 4-1 is booby trapped and if you step on the pressure pad unprepared you will die. Which is something Dark souls 2 goes back to, while dark souls 3 makes traps pointless because the arrow range is so long and the hallway is HUGE.

I don't want Sen's fortress to be 'the trap level'. I want the entire game to be a sort of trap where I have to pay attention or I'm going to get killed. I want bosses that feel fair, maybe even easy but have different dynamics when you encounter them. I want The Rotten, I want the fat slug, Hell I even want Dragon God and Bed of Chaos. Because they're distinct boss fights where each one stands out because of it's personality. The fight doesn't have to be the reward for finishing an area. A memorable monster to encounter is a better reward than most of Elden ring's bosses despite being technically inferior. I can beat every challenge the games have thrown at me, I can beat challenge runs but none of the later games offers what demon's souls and Dark souls 2 does because they have lost their sense of adventure. There's no risk any more, there's no punishment for being unobservant. There's just reward and safely handles on everything so players like yourself never have to feel pressured by the game to respect it. Which is not what I signed up for this series back on the ps3 with Demon's souls.

Your mention of "clunky" is telling. I'm starting to see this being said this about DS1 too now, on Steam and Reddit by shallow smoothbrain newfags who started with Elden Ring and now are going back to the older games and crying about clunkiness.

The older games do have some clunkiness. Jumping is a big part of that. There's plenty of issues with animation queuing some times working and other times not. Crystal cave's platforms have fucked physics and can slide you off them if you don't know the right angle to run down them and it switches at the last moment on a few.

I was looking for a specific comic posted on 4chan when demon's souls was fresh and I came across this gallery. If you don't understand why people like Dark soul's 2 I highly recommend browsing through it. See how much of Dark souls 2's bullshit lines up with what us From oldfags were laughing at and exploring together.

Comics

 

[cvv]

The older games do have some clunkiness.

They are a bit stiffer, sure. My point was it doesn't matter, it's superficial shit.

I'm laughing at idiots who are show-stopped by a bit of stiffness but never bat an eye over linear world, boring levels, non-functional poise, cosmetic armor or dysfunctional split damage, i.e. absolutely crucial mechanics for any action RPG of this type. As long as they get spectacular bosses they are happy to gobble up a pile of shit as a side dish.

 

[Hell Swarm]

The older games do have some clunkiness.

They are a bit stiffer, sure. My point was it doesn't matter, it's superficial shit.

I'm laughing at idiots who are show-stopped by a bit of stiffness but never bat an eye over linear world, boring levels, non-functional poise, cosmetic armor or dysfunctional split damage, i.e. absolutely crucial mechanics for any action RPG of this type. As long as they get spectacular bosses they are happy to gobble up a pile of shit as a side dish.

I hate poise. I'm glad it got fixed in later games. Enemies and players randomly ignoring being hit is fucking stupid and shouldn't exist in any game with damage this high. It's bullshit in low damage games, it's super bullshit in high damage games.

 

[cvv]

I hate poise. I'm glad it got fixed in later games.

It wasn't fixed, it was intentionally borked in DS3 because FS had enough trying to balance it for PvE and PvP simultaneously (and no wonder).

You can argue about cutoff points and thresholds and armor balances for poise (yes, Havel monsters in DS1 were retarded) but in a game with wide range of fast-slow builds and weapons (and enemies) it's p. important. Lies of P is a p. good example of what happens when you have heavy weapons and no poise - your options as a heavy build are significantly limited.

 

[Hell Swarm]

I hate poise. I'm glad it got fixed in later games.

It wasn't fixed, it was intentionally borked in DS3 because FS had enough trying to balance it for PvE and PvP simultaneously (and no wonder).

You can argue about cutoff points and thresholds and armor balances for poise (yes, Havel monsters in DS1 were retarded) but in a game with wide range of fast-slow builds and weapons (and enemies) it's p. important. Lies of P is a p. good example of what happens when you have heavy weapons and no poise - your options as a heavy build are significantly limited.

Good. Heavy weapons desperately need a nerf. They do far too much damage and stagger way too hard. There's a reason being naked/as lightly dressed as possible with a heavy weapon is so obnoxiously abused.

 

[9ted6]

The problem being that DS3 is all Dark Souls mistakes in top of a braindead linear level design that nullfies any replayability.
It feels like a mindless cashgrab for the masses. Bloodborne, strangely enough, doesn't have that even though in the end, it has a linear path to the end boss.

It all makes sense when you remember Miyazaki expressly didn't want to make any Dark Souls sequels and only came back to 3 as a begrudging halfassed effort to appease the fans. The reason 2 and especially 3 lack any of 1's charm is because the dudes involved literally did not want to make them.

 

[Silverfish]

The reason 2 and especially 3 lack any of 1's charm is because the dudes involved literally did not want to make them.

I've always been skeptical of this claim since two of the three series Miyazaki's launched since Dark Souls caught fire have just been Souls in a different setting.

 

[Hell Swarm]

The problem being that DS3 is all Dark Souls mistakes in top of a braindead linear level design that nullfies any replayability.
It feels like a mindless cashgrab for the masses. Bloodborne, strangely enough, doesn't have that even though in the end, it has a linear path to the end boss.

It all makes sense when you remember Miyazaki expressly didn't want to make any Dark Souls sequels and only came back to 3 as a begrudging halfassed effort to appease the fans. The reason 2 and especially 3 lack any of 1's charm is because the dudes involved literally did not want to make them.

Can we all agree Miyazaki is an idea stealing faggot who gets far too much credit? There's a full team behind the souls games and almost none of the creative work is done by this slant eyed retard. He watches anime and demands designers steal from it, yet he gets credit for everything good, bad or indifferent in the entire franchise.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

I'm all for Dark Souls 2 fans coming together and beating the shit out of other FS fans. We're a tough lot, let's Road House these bitches.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I'm all for Dark Souls 2 fans coming together and beating the shit out of other FS fans. We're a tough lot, let's Road House these bitches.

Get in there, Bubba. We'll be along shortly.

 

[cvv]

Miyazaki expressly didn't want to make any Dark Souls sequels and only came back to 3 as a begrudging halfassed effort to appease the fans.

Such a good description of DS3 it should've been in the title:

Dark Souls III: A Begrudging Half-Assed Effort to Appease the Fans - 59.99$

 

[Lutte]

The reason 2 and especially 3 lack any of 1's charm is because the dudes involved literally did not want to make them.

I've always been skeptical of this claim since two of the three series Miyazaki's launched since Dark Souls caught fire have just been Souls in a different setting.

And even import things straight from the previous games. Elden Ring has something like 10 asylum demon, Omen Killer are Capra Demon, Bloodhound are Boreal Outrider and yet this is what he said in an interview a long time ago:

https://www.techtimes.com/articles/...ls-3-could-be-the-last-game-in-the-series.htm

"I don't think it'd be the right choice to continue indefinitely creating Souls and Bloodborne games. I'm considering Dark Souls 3 to be the big closure on the series. That's not just limited to me, but From Software and myself together want to aggressively make new things in the future...Dark Souls 3 is an important marker in the evolution of From Software."

Miyazaki is a weasel.
The big closure for soulsborne eh?

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

FS has come a long way. We got splinter factions now and civil wars among FS fanboys. The DsK2 faction is by far the strongest. We've put up with the most bullshit and are ready to destroy everything in our path.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Miyazaki expressly didn't want to make any Dark Souls sequels and only came back to 3 as a begrudging halfassed effort to appease the fans.

Such a good description of DS3 it should've been in the title:

Dark Souls III: A Begrudging Half-Assed Effort to Appease the Fans - 59.99$

 

[Hell Swarm]

And even import things straight from the previous games. Elden Ring has something like 10 asylum demon, Omen Killer are Capra Demon, Bloodhound are Boreal Outrider and yet this is what he said in an interview a long time ago:

The sad thing is those boss fights are some of the best in Elden ring. They're annoying when you have to redo them 10 times in a row but the first few I looked forward to. Asylum demon but buffed was neat, Omen Killer was pretty threatening and a great summon.

 

[Silverfish]

We've put up with the most bullshit

It's not the fault of DS1 Chads that you guys didn't invest enough into adaptability to dodge our barbs.

 

[Hell Swarm]

Real talk for a second.

Can you faggots stop turning this into an Us VS Them thing with souls games? Dark souls 3 is pretty shit in many ways, but it's still better than most games released in the last decade. Elden ring? Piles of shit all over the place. Absolutely unplayable in some areas.. still better than almost anything else released in the same time frame. Almost everyone in this thread except SDG who's just a drunk tranny enjoys all the From games to some degree and our preferences lean different to which we consider the best.

 

[cvv]

Dark souls 3 is pretty shit in many ways, but it's still better than most games released in the last decade.

I agree with that. I don't hate DS3 because it's a bad game but because it's such a slump in quality compared to p. much everything else From has ever done.

It's so disinterested, so by-the-numbers, so fucking half-assed under the hood I've always thought huge chunks of it were just outsourced to China, especially considering Miyazaki was busy with Bloodborne and the DLC at that time (that's why DS3 had a co-director while Bloodborne was directed solely by Miyazaki).

All that said, I did have a lot of fun with my first run, it's only in NG+ that I started noticing the rot and became disgusted. But yeah, compared 95% of the garbage out there it's a great game.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I don't hate DS3 at all, but it's laughable that someone would suggest that it's the highlight of the series. At the very least, it shows that someone's looking for a far different experience than what most people enjoy these games for.

 

[Lyre Mors]

DS3 is just "zoomer's first Dwark Swouls," which is why it is so vocally pumped up on the internet. It's not a bad game, it's just annoying how it's often regarded as the best in the series by people who don't even know what the series is really about, ie fad chasing gen-z.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

Dark souls 3 is pretty shit in many ways, but it's still better than most games released in the last decade.

I've said this before. I only treat DkS3 like it's a piece of shit during comparisons with other FS games. Unfortunately that's all we ever do so I rarely have anything positive to say about it.

 

[Machocruz]

DkS3 gets rolled on by all other Souls games, this is true. Normies won't accept this, is the issue. They always support the lesser option the most, in life as well as games. I mean imagine you are so underdeveloped you think FiraxCom is superior to UFO Chadfense, or Toddout better than actual Fallout. That's the kind who thinks 3 is better than DaS2, if not the best game in the series. Physiognomy is real, that's the kind of shit that people with low foreheads and protruding maws believe.