Pathfinder The Creator of Pathfinder did a let's play of Kingmaker.

[Desiderius]

(4) Monk splash is actively bad before level 18. The strength of the class is in the snowballing (Divine Weapon Bond, Channeling/Mercies) and higher level spells/auras. You need to get to them fast. Likewise there are some good Heavy Armors which need a home. Blessed Plate is early, two extra Smites, and frees up your head slot. Crane doesn't even turn on until you've already attacked. You don't get Uncanny Dodge. You're not a tank, don't try to be one.

Monk dip level 1 can make the tutorial a lot easier on Unfair just because DEX bonus + AC bonus + Mage Armor potion + Free AC ring gives you over 20 AC with no real penalties if you have one of the typical stat distributions with around 14-16 DEX, 16-18 CHA. It's not guaranteed to keep you from being one-shot, but you're going to do a lot better with full movement speed and higher AC than the paladin starting gear will ever get you. You will be hit less and because of that, you should have a higher chance to make it through the truly difficult encounters without having to reload. Plus in the first chapter, it costs less to get the mage armor wand and stack it with the AC bonus than it does to get that piece of plate armor. You don't need as much money because you have less characters that need expensive armor and you can put more money into potions+scrolls that keep everyone alive longer and let you kill the enemies much faster. It's just more efficient in the short run and just as if not more effective in the long run. On top of that, you can find a variety of masterwork and +1 monk weapons early in game for free before you even start to see +1 of any other weapon type.
Maybe you delay one of the +1's from the Paladin bonds earlier. But so what? Delaying something one level in this game usually isn't enough to ruin the build for you especially if you can level optimally

Because you also delay Speed, Keen, Axiomatic, etc... you spend five of twenty lvls gimped. Same with spells/auras/etc...

I don’t kick it up to Unfair until lvl five at the earliest anyway, and Unfair prologue especially is just a different game (reload/cheesefest). Without Image you’re not the best tank so might as well go straight up two-hander preferably with reach. You’re owning evil with your O, not your D.

 

[PapaPetro]

nt 12? Wis 12? Cha 14 and Dex 9? On a Paladin?

The only three legal ways to play a melee Paladin in Kingmaker are:
- aasimar with 18/14/14/7/9/18;
- motherless tiefling with 18/14/14/5/9/17;
- halfling because small paladins are funny.

Everything else should be punished by death.

I just played with cheat engine and played the characters that I wanted to play.
No death for me.

 

[Pink Eye]

(4) Monk splash is actively bad before level 18. The strength of the class is in the snowballing (Divine Weapon Bond, Channeling/Mercies) and higher level spells/auras. You need to get to them fast. Likewise there are some good Heavy Armors which need a home. Blessed Plate is early, two extra Smites, and frees up your head slot. Crane doesn't even turn on until you've already attacked. You don't get Uncanny Dodge. You're not a tank, don't try to be one.

Monk dip level 1 can make the tutorial a lot easier on Unfair just because DEX bonus + AC bonus + Mage Armor potion + Free AC ring gives you over 20 AC with no real penalties if you have one of the typical stat distributions with around 14-16 DEX, 16-18 CHA. It's not guaranteed to keep you from being one-shot, but you're going to do a lot better with full movement speed and higher AC than the paladin starting gear will ever get you. You will be hit less and because of that, you should have a higher chance to make it through the truly difficult encounters without having to reload. Plus in the first chapter, it costs less to get the mage armor wand and stack it with the AC bonus than it does to get that piece of plate armor. You don't need as much money because you have less characters that need expensive armor and you can put more money into potions+scrolls that keep everyone alive longer and let you kill the enemies much faster. It's just more efficient in the short run and just as if not more effective in the long run. On top of that, you can find a variety of masterwork and +1 monk weapons early in game for free before you even start to see +1 of any other weapon type.
Maybe you delay one of the +1's from the Paladin bonds earlier. But so what? Delaying something one level in this game usually isn't enough to ruin the build for you especially if you can level optimally

Because you also delay Speed, Keen, Axiomatic, etc... you spend five of twenty lvls gimped. Same with spells/auras/etc...

I don’t kick it up to Unfair until lvl five at the earliest anyway, and Unfair prologue especially is just a different game (reload/cheesefest). Without Image you’re not the best tank so might as well go straight up two-hander preferably with reach. You’re owning evil with your O, not your D.

It doesn't have to be a reload fest. Surviving unfair prologue is easy nowadays due to the amount of unkillable companions in the area.

 

[Perkel]

all min maxers should be beheaded. In those kind of games i don't even spend all points and if there is roll i just play with first roll.

You get more fun from trying to find a way from your problems than building god best in everything boring to play.

 

[PapaPetro]

why play the same game your playing?
if I want Valerie to have 13 int, I'll give her 13 int. She's clearly not a retard.

 

[Sweeper]

You get more fun from trying to find a way from your problems than building god best in everything boring to play.

Spoken like someone who only plays on the default difficulty.

She's clearly not a retard.

Ehhhhhh...

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

Because you also delay Speed, Keen, Axiomatic, etc... you spend five of twenty lvls gimped. Same with spells/auras/etc...

I don’t kick it up to Unfair until lvl five at the earliest anyway, and Unfair prologue especially is just a different game (reload/cheesefest). Without Image you’re not the best tank so might as well go straight up two-hander preferably with reach. You’re owning evil with your O, not your D.

You can beat the tutorial on unfair without reloading all the time. Part of it is use the stealth mode and learning how far you can go before the AI detects. You do it without cheese too. You have to exploit the AI a little, but that's what Hannibal did at Carthage to 80k soldiers. Then you choose to do charge attack or cast your spells before they can even get their initiative. You don't get the divine weapon bond until level 5. You're not gimping yourself for five levels either. With a monk dip at level 1, at best you can say that you're delaying it one level. You won't have it for the Staglord, but you'll have it before troll trouble starts. It's not a big loss and it's certainly not gimping you. If anything, you might have it easier levels 1-4 because you get 2x attack from flurry of blows with monk weapons. That with something like a quarterstaff means a higher chance of hitting a target each round if all else is equal. Level 5 it would be easy to hit everything if you went pure paladin and got that +1 only one level earlier, but it would've been a lot harder levels 1-4. Maybe you can bring up smite or divine grace. However, most of the effects you're against are poison which you can just pop a delay poison scroll, or fear which you can just use remove fear to prevent entirely. You delay smite a level. But it's only a once per day thing. And besides, it's only useful for a few encounters. It's possible to get to level 3 before going to those encounters anyways. This whole thing is like saying a Sorc is a gimped a wizard because they delay their level 2 and level 3 spells one level. Wizard gets it one level earlier. So you're spending the first 5 levels gimped. They delay their once per day abilities one level.

 

[Desiderius]

why play the same game your playing?
if I want Valerie to have 13 int, I'll give her 13 int. She's clearly not a retard.

9 INT is slightly generous. She has yet to stumble upon an original thought.

 

[Desiderius]

Because you also delay Speed, Keen, Axiomatic, etc... you spend five of twenty lvls gimped. Same with spells/auras/etc...

I don’t kick it up to Unfair until lvl five at the earliest anyway, and Unfair prologue especially is just a different game (reload/cheesefest). Without Image you’re not the best tank so might as well go straight up two-hander preferably with reach. You’re owning evil with your O, not your D.

You can beat the tutorial on unfair without reloading all the time. Part of it is use the stealth mode and learning how far you can go before the AI detects. You do it without cheese too. You have to exploit the AI a little, but that's what Hannibal did at Carthage to 80k soldiers. Then you choose to do charge attack or cast your spells before they can even get their initiative. You don't get the divine weapon bond until level 5. You're not gimping yourself for five levels either. With a monk dip at level 1, at best you can say that you're delaying it one level. You won't have it for the Staglord, but you'll have it before troll trouble starts. It's not a big loss and it's certainly not gimping you. If anything, you might have it easier levels 1-4 because you get 2x attack from flurry of blows with monk weapons. That with something like a quarterstaff means a higher chance of hitting a target each round if all else is equal. Level 5 it would be easy to hit everything if you went pure paladin and got that +1 only one level earlier, but it would've been a lot harder levels 1-4. Maybe you can bring up smite or divine grace. However, most of the effects you're against are poison which you can just pop a delay poison scroll, or fear which you can just use remove fear to prevent entirely. You delay smite a level. But it's only a once per day thing. And besides, it's only useful for a few encounters. It's possible to get to level 3 before going to those encounters anyways. This whole thing is like saying a Sorc is a gimped a wizard because they delay their level 2 and level 3 spells one level. Wizard gets it one level earlier. So you're spending the first 5 levels gimped. They delay their once per day abilities one level.

That’s fine, you get away with one or two level splashes on most good companion builds. If you’re soloing Pal then sure take the splash. I just found Monk splashes underwhelming in almost all situations since in group play your best defense is a good offense and Monk does nothing for O except opening up a few early weapons which don’t really beat out the alternatives if you know where to look.

Monk splash is especially bad for STR-based toons since you get way more bang for the buck with two-handed power attax which rules out main benefit of monk splash, easy access to Crane Wing.

 

[PapaPetro]

why play the same game your playing?
if I want Valerie to have 13 int, I'll give her 13 int. She's clearly not a retard.

9 INT is slightly generous. She has yet to stumble upon an original thought.

she is a fedora tipper

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

That’s fine, you get away with one or two level splashes on most good companion builds. If you’re soloing Pal then sure take the splash. I just found Monk splashes underwhelming in almost all situations since in group play your best defense is a good offense and Monk does nothing for O except opening up a few early weapons which don’t really beat out the alternatives if you know where to look.

Monk splash is especially bad for STR-based toons since you get way more bang for the buck with two-handed power attax which rules out main benefit of monk splash, easy access to Crane Wing.

Offense is better than defense. Then the other enemies you couldn't kill while you still had HP overwhelm you. You need a character with AC. Monk gives you AC that you can stack with the mage armor wand and potions you find. Unless you're playing some reach build and turn someone like Linzi into a second tank, likelihood is that MC is a tank. Monk bonus AC + Bracers, etc. is better than armor in general.

Also Crane Wing does work with Two-handed characters and two handed power attack. I just tested it on a 22 STR character I rolled. Just leveled him up to 8 and had him run into the beneath the stolen lands 1st level to look at the numbers.

Spoiler

Damage bonus is +9 from STR two handed. Then +1 from weapon training since I rolled fighter for this. Then +9 from power attack because I have +8 BAB. So that comes to +19. It does exactly what it's supposed to do. Only thing you see in AC right now is Fighting Defensive (+4), Mage Armor (+4), Monk Dodge Bonus (+2), Dodge (+1), and the Dex Bonus (+1). So 10+4+4+2+1+1=22 AC. Crane Wing does not show up on the character page since the AC only applies to Melee attacks. If we look at the combat log however

Spoiler

We see that Crane wing is being applied. The log also tells us that the expect +19 from power attack is being applied.

Spoiler

Crane Wing + Two handed weapon + Power Attack Two handed bonus is working and the game says it's working. The pathfinder ruleset does say this works as well. So your second statement isn't correct. Monk dip is not bad for Two Handed characters..

 

[Desiderius]

Val, Okbo, and Harrim (depending on the foe) make fine tanks but it’s not really a tank and spank game. Once you get a group working well in concert you can attack fights with things like Pounce and not have to worry much about AC at all.

Image, Summons, Fear, and difficult terrain can be employed as needed to manage numbers.

 

[Desiderius]

Last full playthrough had Tristian Scion/MT tanking so there are a lot of ways to skin the cat.

 

[Desiderius]

That’s fine, you get away with one or two level splashes on most good companion builds. If you’re soloing Pal then sure take the splash. I just found Monk splashes underwhelming in almost all situations since in group play your best defense is a good offense and Monk does nothing for O except opening up a few early weapons which don’t really beat out the alternatives if you know where to look.

Monk splash is especially bad for STR-based toons since you get way more bang for the buck with two-handed power attax which rules out main benefit of monk splash, easy access to Crane Wing.

Offense is better than defense. Then the other enemies you couldn't kill while you still had HP overwhelm you. You need a character with AC. Monk gives you AC that you can stack with the mage armor wand and potions you find. Unless you're playing some reach build and turn someone like Linzi into a second tank, likelihood is that MC is a tank. Monk bonus AC + Bracers, etc. is better than armor in general.

Also Crane Wing does work with Two-handed characters and two handed power attack. I just tested it on a 22 STR character I rolled. Just leveled him up to 8 and had him run into the beneath the stolen lands 1st level to look at the numbers.

Spoiler

Damage bonus is +9 from STR two handed. Then +1 from weapon training since I rolled fighter for this. Then +9 from power attack because I have +8 BAB. So that comes to +19. It does exactly what it's supposed to do. Only thing you see in AC right now is Fighting Defensive (+4), Mage Armor (+4), Monk Dodge Bonus (+2), Dodge (+1), and the Dex Bonus (+1). So 10+4+4+2+1+1=22 AC. Crane Wing does not show up on the character page since the AC only applies to Melee attacks. If we look at the combat log however

Spoiler

We see that Crane wing is being applied. The log also tells us that the expect +19 from power attack is being applied.

Spoiler

Crane Wing + Two handed weapon + Power Attack Two handed bonus is working and the game says it's working. The pathfinder ruleset does say this works as well. So your second statement isn't correct. Monk dip is not bad for Two Handed characters..

Known bug. I only use Crane Wing with open hand and toon with high WIS/CHR. Sensei with CMs dece for this, or Scion. Aldori Defender/Swordlord ends up not needing the help while it’s ok with Duelist, tho you really need to focus hard on AB for Parry.

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

Known bug. I only use Crane Wing with open hand and toon with high WIS/CHR. Sensei with CMs dece for this, or Scion. Aldori Defender/Swordlord ends up not needing the help while it’s ok with Duelist, tho you really need to focus hard on AB for Parry.

Except it's not a bug. It's how Crane Wing works in table top. You can switch between holding a weapon with one hand or two hands as a free action.

 

[PapaPetro]

Tower shield spec works with crane wing if I remember (since it technically counts as being empty handed)