The Codex's official opinion on VtM Bloodlines

[SCO]

I disagree, in bloodlines it is actually possible to use stealth and obsfucate (if you have enough blood) to not kill almost anyone except bosses - it is no thief or deus ex where you could kill no one in ingame combat (but that fucking missile is really annoying, there should be a option to avoid it for a harder mission later), but it gets respectably close.

The problem of combat in-setting is that the only fights that are not contradicting the setting are those in the sewers and that is already the most annoying part of the game.
Fights against the cops should lower both humanity and break the masquerade. Fights against the giovanni by a prince's agent would unleash a shitstorm - possibly a alliance with the sabbath. The zombies thing is simply irresponsible. The werewolves would murder you, 5 at a time.

The game discourages fighting, and that is why the game is praised mostly - but get it, the P&P setting is even more radical.
Could you imagine the reaction of "normal" gamers when killing the cops at the dane lowered your humanity and broke the masquerade? The BAAWWW would quake the world.

I'm not such a fool that i want to sacrifice options in the name of lore consistency, even if it's the opposite that such sacrifices normally go.

 

[Archibald]

The game discourages fighting, and that is why the game is praised mostly - but get it, the P&P setting is even more radical.
Could you imagine the reaction of "normal" gamers when killing the cops at the dane lowered your humanity and broke the masquerade? The BAAWWW would quake the world.

Good point.

Fights against the cops should lower both humanity and break the masquerade.

I once killed every cop on ship

 

[roll-a-die]

I disagree, in bloodlines it is actually possible to use stealth and obsfucate (if you have enough blood) to not kill almost anyone except bosses - it is no thief or deus ex where you could kill no one in ingame combat (but that fucking missile is really annoying, there should be a option to avoid it for a harder mission later), but it gets respectably close.

The problem of combat in-setting is that the only fights that are not contradicting the setting are those in the sewers and that is already the most annoying part of the game.
Fights against the cops should lower both humanity and break the masquerade. Fights against the giovanni by a prince's agent would unleash a shitstorm - possibly a alliance with the sabbath. The zombies thing is simply irresponsible. The werewolves would murder you, 5 at a time.

The game discourages fighting, and that is why the game is praised mostly - but get it, the P&P setting is even more radical.
Could you imagine the reaction of "normal" gamers when killing the cops at the dane lowered your humanity and broke the masquerade? The BAAWWW would quake the world.

I'm not such a fool that i want to sacrifice options in the name of lore consistency, even if it's the opposite that such sacrifices normally go.

Even in the sewer's they violate lore. There are more denizens of the sewers than just the Nos, the Ratkin and other verminus were's would take the schlackta out in 5 minutes.

 

[SCO]

And as if that isn't enough, when he tries the same shit at the end of the game, you just shrug it off and proceed to beat him down without so much as a bossfight, he's such a pussy all he gets is a cutscene. How are you suddenly 100% resistant to mind control?

If you haven`t noticed your characters grows very fast in power.

As far as I can tell, the entire game takes place over about a week - how do you go from newborn vampire to being able to take on a vampire so old he served under Napoleon when he was still alive? Apart from standard RPG logic, of course.

My personal favorite bullshit theory is that you're not actually 8th generation, but 4 or even ahaha 2.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

My personal favorite bullshit theory is that you're not actually 8th generation, but 4 or even ahaha 2.

Especially considering even Jack is 11th gen. So 8th gen seems badass enough actually. Even in Redemption you start as 9th gen in the 12th century FFS

 

[Archibald]

But your sire was actually very old and amazing vampire who went bonkers one night and accepted death on his free will later!

 

[SCO]

There is no justification. I just like epikkk secrets. Regardless, you're pretty naive if you think a antediluvian can't infect a vamp with his blood and mindcontrol them. And jack is 10th.

 

[SCO]

Truth to tell if i was a elder and some fledging just did what it did ingame, i would be running very fast away. Irrelevant speculation anyway. The final night ingame is the night previous the FINAL night in p&p so there is no possible justification for that kind of lameduck elder vampire progeny by a antediluvian or Caine.

PS: your character died the final death night after the game ended.

 

[Archibald]

PS: your character died the final death night after the game ended.

WW getting rid of an abomination :D

 

[SCO]

The first thing that made me suspect this was this little speech by our favorite sabbath paranoid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyNsHEMiM6E

Yeah i guess i would play sabbath if i played p&p. I want to believe.

 

[mikaelis]

I think it was a good game. One of the very few I was really eager to continue on and on. It was not flawless however. Bugs aside, I hated popamoling and slashamoling in the second part of the game. Especially China Town with those fucking mini boss brothers running like shit and the final boss fight

Also sewers.

Also this ridiculous house in which you kill constantly spamming zombies, before encountering some crazy fast motherfucker.

But good game nevertheless.

 

[Archibald]

before encountering some crazy fast motherfucker.

Only good boos fight imo.

 

[CrimHead]

I disagree, in bloodlines it is actually possible to use stealth and obsfucate (if you have enough blood) to not kill almost anyone except bosses - it is no thief or deus ex where you could kill no one in ingame combat (but that fucking missile is really annoying, there should be a option to avoid it for a harder mission later), but it gets respectably close.

I don't know if you've played Desu Ex recently, but there were mandatory kills in that game as well.

 

[roll-a-die]

I disagree, in bloodlines it is actually possible to use stealth and obsfucate (if you have enough blood) to not kill almost anyone except bosses - it is no thief or deus ex where you could kill no one in ingame combat (but that fucking missile is really annoying, there should be a option to avoid it for a harder mission later), but it gets respectably close.

I don't know if you've played Desu Ex recently, but there were mandatory kills in that game as well.

Actually not really, most could be avoided by glitching around them.

Also there were like 2 mandatory kills, Cyborg Bitch, and Page.

 

[Twinkle]

One can't deny that VtMB has some future-proof codexian humor.

Popamoling.

The rise of the EXTREME.

Larpers.

Trannification.

The "Setting" also received appropriate judgement.

Go to hell, haters, this game is really good for what it is.

 

[racofer]

I laughed out loud when I first read this one

 

[Black Cat]

Someone should have given him a Demon: The Fallen rulebook. Maybe then he could have put all his coolness to something useful.

He was right about everything else, though.

 

[SCO]

I disagree, in bloodlines it is actually possible to use stealth and obsfucate (if you have enough blood) to not kill almost anyone except bosses - it is no thief or deus ex where you could kill no one in ingame combat (but that fucking missile is really annoying, there should be a option to avoid it for a harder mission later), but it gets respectably close.

I don't know if you've played Desu Ex recently, but there were mandatory kills in that game as well.

Actually not really, most could be avoided by glitching around them.

Also there were like 2 mandatory kills, Cyborg Bitch, and Page.

Anna could be worked around, and even add additional dialog with gunther if you did, that you'd never hear otherwise.

Paige...
Killed himself.

 

[ghostdog]

 

[Gragt]

Fuck, now I feel like replaying it … And Deus Ex. And I got too many games to play already. And movies to watch. And books to read. And ferrets to play with.

Fags, all of you.

 

[CrimHead]

I disagree, in bloodlines it is actually possible to use stealth and obsfucate (if you have enough blood) to not kill almost anyone except bosses - it is no thief or deus ex where you could kill no one in ingame combat (but that fucking missile is really annoying, there should be a option to avoid it for a harder mission later), but it gets respectably close.

I don't know if you've played Desu Ex recently, but there were mandatory kills in that game as well.

Actually not really, most could be avoided by glitching around them.

Also there were like 2 mandatory kills, Cyborg Bitch, and Page.

False. /Volourn

The mandatory deaths are Gunther, Annah, Simons, Maggie Chow, and if you want to count post-game deaths, Page.

There are also those the military bots in the X-51 base. I dunno if you want to count them, though.

Anna could be worked around

wait wut. Alex will only give you the key to leave UNATCO if you kill her.

 

[SCO]

Gunther

Run away.

Anna

Make her run away, she opens the door.

Simmons

Run away... twice.

Maggie Chow

Knock her out, put her in the street or the upper lab before going out. /Larper

Paige

Take the Helios ending.

 

[CrimHead]

Gunther

Run away.

Anna

Make her run away, she opens the door.

Simmons

Run away... twice.

Maggie Chow

Knock her out, put her in the street or the upper lab before going out. /Larper

Paige

Take the Helios ending.

But doesn't the plot rely on some of those characters dying? Aren't we starting to get into glitch/exploit territory? Particularly with Gunther/Anna. The game kind of assumes you kill them even if you don't. So I don't consider that legitimate.

As for the others:

 

[SCO]

You might mention the MIB's in the missile silo, or the missile itself. That was why i was bitching about it. A missile going off, obviously fries the MIB unless you move them all outside and the missile is going to kill lots of soldiers in the military base. Fuck this terrible game, my pacifist JC wouldn't do this shit.

 

[SCO]

The plot doesn't really rely on them dying. Imagine that Anna is in the hospital being refitted after running away like a little girl. There is even different dialog with Gunther - silly dialog i admit.
In compensation the second time you fight Simmons there is one of the most awesome exchanges in the game (though the first is awesomer).