The Codex’s Best Computer RPGs (pre-Diablo)

[Rincewind]

Claiming my participation award: I haven't played enough old games (yet) to form a comprehensive view of the classics, so I'll refrain from voting. But my list seems to be pretty good because I found only 9 interesting titles that needed adding. Curious how the results will turn out!

 

[madrigal]

2 Points:
Betrayal at Krondor (Sierra)
Dark Sun: Shattered Lands (SSI)
Might and Magic 2: Gates to Another World (New World Computing)
Pool of Radiance (SSI)
Quest for Glory 4: Shadows of Darkness (Sierra)

 

[Contagium]

3 points: Ultima 6
3 points: Dungeon Master
2 points: Wizardry 5
1 point: EOTB
1 point: Menzoberranzan

 

[ERYFKRAD]

3 points- Betrayal at Krondor
2 each- Quest for Glory 1, Darklands and Dark Sun
1- Conan : the Cimmerian

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Darklands - 3
Eye of the Beholder 2 - 3
Dark Heart of Uukrul - 2
Daggerfall - 2

 

[perfectslumbers]

5 points:
The Elder Scrolls: Daggerfall
Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss

 

[AdolfSatan]

4 - Betrayal at Krondor
3 - Dark Sun: Shattered Lands
1 - Ultima Underworld
1 - Pool of Radiance
1 - Exile 3

 

[Rincewind]

Quite surprised to see how many people think so highly of Betrayal at Krondor. Yes, it had serviceable TB combat and you could go anywhere, but somehow I think of it as an adventure game with a flight-simulator interface. Plus I wasn't that much impressed by the story either.

Full disclosure: I'm a "blobber" fan.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

You know, the list is so damn vast in these sort of things. If I were to do one it would be on a year by year selection.

First off you'll have to use jrpg, mmo, and obscure titles and those that barely border. Top 5 of that year can compete vs the next year and again only top 5. Naturally by point tally. It'd be a long process of voting but eventually you'd get to the top dog.

I'll have to toss some early nostalgia aside and really grasp here otherwise it might be all ssi games or ultima.

I'll go by the ones I played the most repeatedly: 2 points each

Pool of Radiance
Bard's Tale of the Unknown
Daggerfall
Ultima III
Might & Magic I

 

[Reality]

3pt
Wizardry 1
3pt
Ultima Underworld 1
2pt
Dark Heart of Uurkull
1pt
Wasteland
1pt
Might and Magic 2

 

[mediocrepoet]

You know, the list is so damn vast in these sort of things. If I were to do one it would be on a year by year selection.

I had the same thought about a year by year basis, lol. But I understand why it's not done that way. I've got to actually give it some thought and have started paring down a list offline.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

5 Dungeon Master
2 Faery Tale Adventure
1 Pool of Radiance
1 Dungeon Master: Chaos Strikes Back
1 Death Knights of Krynn

 

[Bad Sector]

I don't see many votes for sci-fi games :-/

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I don't see many votes for sci-fi games :-/

No barbarians in most sci games either.
I do not claim there is a correlation or causation, but here we are.

 

[Wunderbar]

5 points - Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss
3 points - TES2 Daggerfall
2 points - Dark Sun Shattered Lands

 

[Red Hexapus]

Two points each:
> Betrayal at Krondor
> World of Xeen
> Eye of the Beholder 2
> Dungeon Master
> Ultima 7

 

[Fowyr]

CryptRat

 

[Nortar]

4 - Wizardry 7
4 - Betrayal at Krondor
2 - Anvil of Dawn

 

[Lord_Potato]

Deuce Traveler

Thank you for compiling the list and setting up the thread. I'm sure it will be interesting to see the RPG Codex top "oldies but goldies" list.

Before I'll vote I would like to ask if you did not forget System Shock? It's absent from your list.

Its creators considered it an RPG. Allow me to quote the official SS hint book, page 80:

"Back when designing Ultima Underworld, we tried to incorporate traditional RPG elements (story, interaction with NPCs, combat, and a way to increase one's abilities) with the first-person, "you are there" simulation aspects of driving games and flight simulators. We designed System Shock to be even more of an integrated whole. (...) And of course, if we've done our job making a game that combines immersive action with a compelling RPG, then you should find it interesting and fun to play. Which is the point, right?"

Another proof of System Shock's "RPG-ness" is the fact that it was placed on the prestigious RPG Codex "Top 70 RPGs" list (position 61): https://rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=9453

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Somewhat echoing Lord_Potato here, but the inclusion of Star Control 2 on an RPG-list drew criticism back when Felipepepe did it, and I for one am criticizing it now. A core design idea behind Star Control 2 was to have it defy all categorization. It's not a shoot'em-up, nor an RPG, dating simulator or sandbox experience... it's a hybrid of them all, and more.

It doesn't seem to matter though, as only Binky has voted for it, but I'm hoping he reconsiders and that no one else puts down a vote for it.

Star Control 2 is a brilliant game... but it's not an RPG.

My votes will be coming in a later post.

 

[Peachcurl]

• Lands of Lore: The Throne of Chaos - 4
• Albion - 3
  
• Realms of Arkania: Star Trail - 1
  
• Betrayal at Krondor - 1
  
• Amberstar - 1

 

[mondblut]

I don't see many votes for sci-fi games :-/

With the exception of Buck Rogers and Star Command, most of these frankly weren't very good - and these are respectively Goldbox series and Phantasie but in spaaaahce anyway.

 

[Peachcurl]

Albion is a great Sci Fi rpg (although, arguably, it ditches the whole scifi setting for a good while, after the intro section of the game).
Have to say I never played Buck Rogers. And speaking about Star Command reminds me of the sad state of this thing: https://store.steampowered.com/app/402160/Star_Command_Galaxies/

 

[Unkillable Cat]

One vital thought I had in mind when allocating these points, was to take into account the 'core' of these older RPGs, and how it's changed from later, more robust RPGs. A large majority of the games listed are just battle simulators using a detailed (and often slow-paced) combat system. Basic concepts such as dialogue, branching plotlines and multiple pathways through the games that we take for granted today simply weren't available, except in very basic terms. Even re-playing the game with different builds is not accepted for many of these games, the focus is on having the player build the perfect party of adventurers to reach the end of the game.

With that said, I also take into account games that are fun to play, raised the bar or are generally notable in the field of RPGs (or gaming as a whole).

Finally, I object to only 10 points being allowed, with all these restrictions in place. More would be needed to do this proper justice.

---

My 10 points, in chronological order:

# 3 points to Ultima 4: Quest for the Avatar, for daring to buck the trend. Instead of the player raising a party of murderhobos in strength so that they can take down the Big Bad, the player must instead grow his character to become a better person, so that he can help the game world deal with its socio-spiritual problems.

# 3 points to Eye of the Beholder (1), for providing a good all-round approachable RPG experience and being very free-form in its design. Almost every party build has a chance of success, and there are multiple paths available in traversing the dungeon.

# 4 points to Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss, for daring to be. It didn't just raise the bar, it redefined it along the way, setting new standards for the years ahead.

 

[mondblut]

One vital thought I had in mind when allocating these points, was to take into account the 'core' of these older RPGs, and how it's changed from later, more robust RPGs. A large majority of the games listed are just battle simulators using a detailed (and often slow-paced) combat system. Basic concepts such as dialogue, branching plotlines and multiple pathways through the games that we take for granted today simply weren't available, except in very basic terms. Even re-playing the game with different builds is not accepted for many of these games, the focus is on having the player build the perfect party of adventurers to reach the end of the game.

With that said, I also take into account games that are fun to play, raised the bar or are generally notable in the field of RPGs (or gaming as a whole).

Give man a list of games that precede the decline, and he will champion what hastened the decline.