KickStarter TaleSpire - Digital Role-playing System

[Jonny Ree]

Kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bouncyrock/talespire

https://talespire.com

Spoiler

Development Log for :

(The Logo is a sketch and is very much a Work In Progress)
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This project has been living in the GameDev Thread for a little while. And I figured it might be ready for it's own thread. We also have a similar DevLog thread over at TIGSource, however seeing we're very much players of Role-Playing games, this might be a place more suited for the type of feedback we need. Please bear with me while I introduce the project in a similar manner to our other thread, after which it will likely deviate. More updates will follow, although this is an evening project of ours so it will be a bit sporadic at times.


Very short about the game:
TaleSpire is a Digital Role-Playing System trying to capture the feel of tabletop gaming using miniatures and dice, while utilizing some of the benefits of going digital.
Dungeon Masters can build campaigns, set up scenarios and invite players. Taking them through the experience as you would in a Pen & Paper style campaign. We're automating some of the rules and processes, aiming to keep downtime to a minimum while still allowing the DM and Players to make decisions along the way to create whatever narrative they aspire to.

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Building a Campaign:

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Building happens in the same space as playing. You can literally build as you play the game, or just make changes to what you've already set up. Anyone who is logged in as a DM can help build tiles and place encounters.
Hopefully we can make building stuff just as fun as playing the game.

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Playing the game:

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If you're a Dungeon Master you'll have access to the entire map and the ability to expand at any point if you need to.
You'll see pre-set encounters you can choose to trigger or not, depending on your preference. You'll also have notifications signifying what players might want to do and what they're doing so you can act accordingly.

As a player you're presented with your character and the amount of map you're visibly able to see. You can move around freely in exploration mode and can go explore until Combat Mode is engaged. During combat mode a combat queue is generated and players + creatures takes turn rolling dice and using abilities. Players can also roll for none combat events which is primarally handled by the DM.

(Video Features the end of a design session we were having on twitch some months ago)​

The look of the game: (For people who care about that stuff)
We're going for a miniature board type look for sure, but with some more motion and effects where there otherwise would be none. Wavy flickering plastic flames, moving liquids and probably some magical effects of sorts when attacking. We're trying to unify the look of the game by using Substance Designer. Creating materials that can be applied to everything to archive similar highlights, brushing and secular highlights. It's getting there.

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A tiny bit about us:
We're Bouncyrock. Currently 3 people, wearing all sorts of different hats. We did a bunch of Mods for Neverwinter Nights 2 almost a decade ago and have been doing some Jam Games etc since.


PS :: This thread will be updated going forward. Both this top entry and additional entries as we continue development. We might also add a FAQ if we get a lot of questions going forward as it is a rather strange project.

PSS(sss): and here is Charles:

(this did not format as well as I had anticipated, hope it's fine to read)

 

[Jaesun]

This is the kind of game I have been waiting forever to play.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

O hey, glad to see you've finally made a formal announcement of this.

Saw this on your twitter feeds and all, what stage of development is this in?

P.S.: Misery Stone was a good module.

 

[Jack Dandy]

This is BEAUTIFUL

 

[Dorateen]

I love the aesthetics, and the concept behind the whole thing. But here's the big question for me, can this be run like a single-player CRPG experience? In other words, would there be existing modules that a player can load up, without need of an active DM.

 

[Jonny Ree]

This is the kind of game I have been waiting forever to play.

I'm very happy to hear that Jaesun! looking forward to getting it to a point where you guys can start playing

O hey, glad to see you've finally made a formal announcement of this.

Saw this on your twitter feeds and all, what stage of development is this in?

P.S.: Misery Stone was a good module.

Misery Stone was a really fun project, I'm glad you enjoyed it. Jason Roy was the primary mastermind behind that particular endeavor, but, I'll happily take some of the credit
This is still very early in development. We're hoping to do it in chunks so once we have the basics up and running and a bunch of art, we can have people start playing it. It is the sort of project that would most likely benefit from being developed with a community.

This is BEAUTIFUL

Thank you Jack!

I love the aesthetics, and the concept behind the whole thing. But here's the big question for me, can this be run like a single-player CRPG experience? In other words, would there be existing modules that a player can load up, without need of an active DM.

Thank you very much. The first version of the game will be active DM only. We are however a big fan of making single-player experiences. Therefore, we've been keeping that in mind architecturally, so that it will be possible to do sometime down the road. I can't say for sure when in the timeline of things though.


Thanks everyone!

 

[Snorkack]

This looks interesting to say the least... if it turns out to be what I think it is, probably gonna be a day 1 purchase.
My understanding is this: Talespire is less of a game on its own but rather emulates the inevitable cardboards and miniatures on every pnp table to visualize combat situations. It is not tied to any specific rule system, right?
So, some questions:
-What is the DM capable of? Is it just placing and decorating the area, and placing and moving pawns? Or can he do some scripting and stuff, too?
-This software supports 'multiplayer', right? Does it support online as well as lan?
-Will there be an android/ios version?
-Do you have different tilesets/themes in the pipeline?
-Will you open the software to user-generated assets?

It has amazing visuals by the way!

 

[Jonny Ree]

Thank you very much for your kind words, Snorkack.
I'll try to answer your questions below:

My understanding is this: Talespire is less of a game on its own but rather emulates the inevitable cardboards and miniatures on every pnp table to visualize combat situations. It is not tied to any specific rule system, right?

So this is something that we've been discussing a lot internally, but there are some systems out there that does this. Tabletop Simulator and Tabletop Connect (who I believed was bought by Fantasy Grounds)
To us these feel a bit cumbersome and more like a tool rather than a game in itself. So we are trying to develop our own Rule System as well to compliment digital play. These are rules mainly to handle combat related scenarios, while story related aspects
are handled directly by the DM. It is important to us that everything feels like a game. From building, to fighting, to collective storytelling. To keep people as emerged as possible at all times.
So I guess it might not be exactly what you're looking for, but hopefully once things are more fleshed out we'll be able to show possible benefits of this approach.

-What is the DM capable of? Is it just placing and decorating the area, and placing and moving pawns? Or can he do some scripting and stuff, too?

Initially it will be building areas, decorating rooms and placing pawns as you mentioned. You will also be able to plan out encounters which you can choose to spawn or not depending on what direction the story is taking you.
We do want to enable some sort of scripting, but not entirely sure to which degree yet. We certainly does need this if we're able to do singleplay type campaigns in the future.

-This software supports 'multiplayer', right? Does it support online as well as lan?

Currently it is online only actually. As it uses a web back-end for storing data and syncing between players. The real-time movement is also using a web service.
This system will have to be rewritten at some point. Which might enable us to figure out local area networking as well, if there is a lot of interest to go that route.

-Will there be an android/ios version?

Not initially. But it is in the back of our heads. Would potentially be very cool.

-Do you have different tilesets/themes in the pipeline?

We certainly want to do a lot of this. At the moment it is very much a Dark-ish fantasy type setting. And we're developing a test campaign, which we will be using to playtest soon. This contains a bunch of dungeon related things.
It will certainly expand over time. And if the system does well, we're hoping to expand to other settings as well, sci-fi or if someone would like to adapt our system for their setting. Stuff like that.

-Will you open the software to user-generated assets?

Being previously mod'ers ourselves, we definitely need to make that happen. Unity3D doesn't make this easy, but seeing that our assets are static, we can much easier get that data into the engine.


Hopefully that answers some things :D

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Will the game have a barbarian miniature? This is very important.

 

[Jonny Ree]

Will the game have a barbarian miniature? This is very important.

It will! Traditional types and less traditional.

 

[Jaesun]

What rule system are you using? I *assume* d20? Also can we modify the rule system, or will that be hard-coded?

Also, have you approached Wizards of the Coast and showed them how AWESOME this is, and how awesome this would be with a D&D system?

 

[Alchemist]

Seriously, this is the best looking virtual miniatures / dungeon tile setup I've ever seen. It knocks Tabletop Connect, Tabletop Simulator and pretty much anything else out of the water.

I would love to play D&D with it, but I'm not quite as interested if it was another system. They recently OGL'd D&D 5th edition so it would cost you nothing and you'd need no special licensing to implement those rules.

Something to consider down the road maybe. At the very least letting it optionally be used freeform (with no rules attached, and just as a visualization tool) would be cool.

 

[Galdred]

It looks great. How moddable do you plan to make the ruleset?
I think it would work much better if player could import their favorite ruleset, but that would also be much more of a headache to code.

 

[vonAchdorf]

When you first showed the game here, the look was of course the eye-turner and a major appeal. It still is but I'm hopeful that also the rules and GM'ing will be as good.

It's not part of the concept, but something like this for single player would be really great as well.

 

[Jonny Ree]

What rule system are you using? I *assume* d20? Also can we modify the rule system, or will that be hard-coded?
Also, have you approached Wizards of the Coast and showed them how AWESOME this is, and how awesome this would be with a D&D system?

Haven't really crossed my mind actually, perhaps that's something to try once we have some play sessions on file.
Rule stuff addressed at the bottom

Seriously, this is the best looking virtual miniatures / dungeon tile setup I've ever seen. It knocks Tabletop Connect, Tabletop Simulator and pretty much anything else out of the water.
I would love to play D&D with it, but I'm not quite as interested if it was another system. They recently OGL'd D&D 5th edition so it would cost you nothing and you'd need no special licensing to implement those rules.
Something to consider down the road maybe. At the very least letting it optionally be used freeform (with no rules attached, and just as a visualization tool) would be cool.

Thank you! Very much appreciate that. I've chosen to collectively talk about the rules stuff at the bottom of this post

It looks great. How moddable do you plan to make the ruleset?
I think it would work much better if player could import their favorite ruleset, but that would also be much more of a headache to code.

More on that at the bottom of the thread. Love your project by the way :D

When you first showed the game here, the look was of course the eye-turner and a major appeal. It still is but I'm hopeful that also the rules and GM'ing will be as good.
It's not part of the concept, but something like this for single player would be really great as well.

So, the rules are very much in internal discussion at the moment. We certainly see a benefit to enabling any rule-set, but that does potentially create a lot of potential special case. And we could end up with a lot of rules managing UI cluttering up the experience and drawing a lot of work hours towards making that generic, and all encumbering, rather than spending it on the core experience of play. What we do want to avoid are UI windows upon UI windows with settings and text that clutter up the view-space and takes you out of the game/storytelling experience. Making it feel more like a game rather than a tool. Setting it up for all rule-sets would put us more in the similar category as Fantasy Grounds, which is fine, but they do seem to do that stuff rather well. With that said however, it still a matter of good design to make anything work. We're certainly open to thoughts on this subject, and taking D&D5ed for example and hiding it away a bit (while still having it available for tweaking) could also be a way to go. Finally, making it a free for all, and more of a visualization tool would enable us to put something out quicker, but would also turn it into more of a tool rather than a game, having to substitute the experience with other resources as well. Also, in a scenario like that, what types of assets should we be making, to make everyone feel like those would also fit any system? MODing is one answer to that of course.

These are some of the things we're discussing.

Here are some questions I would love to hear some feedback on though:

• When you refer to rule-sets, how much do you personally include in that? The base, (dice rolls, vs <stats>/AC/<skills> etc) or the stat/skill values themselves, Classes, spells etc. Basically, where do you guys set the divide between rules and setting?
• If we were to enable multiple rule-sets, what would be important for the visual components. A bunch of generic assets that could fit in anywhere, or would you go into the game and use a setting provided, even if monsters wouldn't match completely?
• What are the types of things you would want to have available to mod. Rule-wise (specific examples would be appreciated)?
• This is a bigger one (and of course completely option, as are they all): With what you've seen. How would you imagine (best scenario) you would set up a campaign, and play with people? (via voice chat and online)

Thanks again for the kind comments, as well as taking the time to give us feedback on this!

 

[Jonny Ree]

PS: I did look at the D&D5th OGL. (The divide here seem to include all spells/classes/skills, minus descriptions that might include Forgotten realms related names)

 

[mutonizer]

That painted mini look & feel man, it's really bloody good. Not sure how much time each art asset takes your guy but man, he nails it.

When you refer to rule-sets, how much do you personally include in that? The base, (dice rolls, vs <stats>/AC/<skills> etc) or the stat/skill values themselves, Classes, spells etc. Basically, where do you guys set the divide between rules and setting?

Rules are just that, rules, or game mechanics. They're basically the "natural laws" of the game.
Settings are just times and places really, the look and feel for the imagination to be bound by.

I'd say fuck both, at least at first.
Just offer all possible dice on the planet for players, various tools, with a very clean and intuitive interface, to keep track of customized generic variables like a character sheet (just variables, NOT actual mechanics behind them) and let loose in the most stable and polished format you can.
Then, milk your real cash cow: art assets for all possible settings and keep pumping them...

I mean, your players will be the one who used to/would have spend hundreds and hundreds of cash at games workshop and whatnot. Cheap fuckers like me who just used paper cutouts and loved it arn't gonna be bothered with it since you'll never be able to compete with others on that front. Unless you somehow make THE game system everyone dies for, the only thing you're bringing is art, best not forget it I think.

If you WANT to go for a system, I'd go the most popular and simple one you can get your hands on and, unless that's really your thing, don't even try to make your own. 5E, if no fine prints fuck you over somewhere, would be a very good start since it's simple to implement, can be played fast & loose and there will be a lot scenarii out there already for people to just want to put into this system. And that brings us back to your cash cow: art fucking assets: tiles, trees, everything players find in them published scenarii out there, you need to be able to offer as art asset or close to it.


Now, if you're talking single player stuff...That's a whole new ballgame...

 

[Davaris]

Been wanting to do something just like this for Years. Would invest!

Now, if you're talking single player stuff...That's a whole new ballgame...

Yeah they should forget about that and adding their own rules. They would never finish it and it would only disappoint. Let people run their own games. I foresee fun lets play threads in the future.

 

[Dorateen]

But I've always wanted to play a traditional single-player cRPG that looks exactly like this.

 

[Davaris]

But I've always wanted to play a traditional single-player cRPG that looks exactly like this.

But are they set up to make something that would meet the high standards of the Codex? Not likely if they're just a couple of guys.

Perhaps if they license their art to other devs, you will see a lot of these kinds of games made. Unreal's Turn Based Tool Kit would work perfectly with this. I assume that's what they're using.

 

[Dorateen]

But I've always wanted to play a traditional single-player cRPG that looks exactly like this.

But are they set up to make something that would meet the high standards of the Codex? Not likely if they're just a couple of guys.

I am familiar with the content creation work of the developers. They are more than capable of crafting a solid Dungeons & Dragons type adventure.

 

[mutonizer]

I am familiar with the content creation work of the developers. They are more than capable of crafting a solid Dungeons & Dragons type adventure.

Not doubting but it's a completely different project then and, according to OP, not really on the radar for now.

 

[Jonny Ree]

Thanks everyone for the fantastic feedback! This is extremely helpful. We'll be meeting up shortly to discuss the topic further shortly as this has been some serious food for thought. I don't think it will change what we'll try to achieve with TaleSpire, but it might change the order of which things are implemented.
Also thanks again for the all compliments and the vote of confidence! I'll be back with more news!

PS: I haven't been a member long enough to brofist, but know that they would have been all'round.

 

[Semper]

hey jonny,
thx for all the marvellous creatures you created for nwn2!

as for asset creation in talespire: will it be possible to import custom models/images at runtime like in tabletop simulator? it's a very neat feature and helps a lot to be able to import stuff on the fly.
to be honest i really like tabletop simulator for playing pnp and board games, and i don't really see why people should move to your application. hopefully a slick ui, qol features and the art design will convince enough buyers.

if you're aiming at the tool rather than game market, then you should try to create an amalgamation between roll20 and tabletop simulator. the former is geared towards pnp, but lacks the feeling of a physical table the latter has so much of. being able to import custom tiles and miniatures, or use the workshop/dlc to buy some, to build the scene, the handling of character sheets with some kind of scripting support to create macros for often used dice rolls would be important.
playing custom music, placing custom effects (along with an effects editor) and a fog of war system to hide/unhide areas would be nice too. and don't forget about scaling and 3-axis rotation for assets.

 

[Jonny Ree]

hey jonny,
thx for all the marvellous creatures you created for nwn2!

Thanks for saying so! it was great fun and equally great of times!

as for asset creation in talespire: will it be possible to import custom models/images at runtime like in tabletop simulator? it's a very neat feature and helps a lot to be able to import stuff on the fly.
to be honest i really like tabletop simulator for playing pnp and board games, and i don't really see why people should move to your application. hopefully a slick ui, qol features and the art design will convince enough buyers.

if you're aiming at the tool rather than game market, then you should try to create an amalgamation between roll20 and tabletop simulator. the former is geared towards pnp, but lacks the feeling of a physical table the latter has so much of. being able to import custom tiles and miniatures, or use the workshop/dlc to buy some, to build the scene, the handling of character sheets with some kind of scripting support to create macros for often used dice rolls would be important.
playing custom music, placing custom effects (along with an effects editor) and a fog of war system to hide/unhide areas would be nice too. and don't forget about scaling and 3-axis rotation for assets.

Being able to import your own tiles and miniatures is certainly something we want to put in. We're designing the asset loading system with this in mind. We're also keeping tiles fairly simple, so if people follow some small guidelines it should be very easy to get things in that would automatically (pretty much) work with everything. (in theory, anyway)
As far as the game itself. We are aiming to make it feel as much as a game rather than a tool as possible. Although because of the nature of this, some features might be difficult to avoid feeling slightly tool like. The aim isn't as much to simulate the tabletop, nor to replicate the feel of dealing with papers as much as it is creating an environment specifically designed to (hopefully) bring you into the world you're playing in. Not in such detail that you're imagination has no room, but just enough to keep people engaged. Try to see how much we can remove, workload wise before we break it. And see what can be added digitally to help storytelling, to make the board a main focus throughout.

So the design goal is basically: Make everything feel like a game while keeping the flexibility and feel of playing P&P.
What is the essence. Replicate that, and enhance if possible. (which I'm sure there are a lot of different answers to)

It might not work. But I feel it is worth a shot. We're fairly close to start play-testing some of the DM systems. Which should give us a bit more insight.

Thanks for the feedback! I hope it answered some questions.