Vapourware System Shock 3 by OtherSide Entertainment - taken over by Tencent!

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Doctor Sbaitso: they do realize their mistakes. That being there's no money in making intelligent, envelope-pushing, all-encompassing, uncompromising works of art. Since they are indie and close to retirement I assume they're not going to make that mistake again. Can't blame them, if they weren't let down by the PC gaming audience time and time again in the '90s it would have never come to this.

Deus Ex and Thief games were highly successful by any measure. Not sure what you are referring to. His resume is about as impressive as it can be. Other than the last decade being Academia and Disney filled, what exactly are you talking about?

 

[Cynicus]

Spector definitely had input into IW. It was ultimately Harvey Smith's baby, though. And, yeah, I think Harvey understands now some of the mistakes that were made, but as the good doctor says, it's easy to say those things after the fact.

He was either the only means of defense against publisher pressures to dumb down the game, or the idea came from him directly, spooked by LGS' downfall and tired of making next level games that don't do very well financially and don't get id/valve-tier recognition.

It's speculation, but I'm confident that the big push to target the Xbox came from Eidos, not Ion Storm. While they might not have put up much resistance, IW was the first console game Harvey Smith and probably the majority (if not all) of the other IS guys ever worked on, so I think IS would have defaulted to their strength, which was designing for PC, if it was their decision alone. Eidos was the sugar daddy, and when someone gives you millions of dollars to do a thing, it's hard to say no. In that sense, I can feel some sympathy for Ion Storm, but the game still should have been better than it was.

 

[Ash]

Doctor Sbaitso: I'm talking about LGS struggling for ten years and their best games not doing very well financially, some even resulting in a loss, ultimately leading to their demise. Deus Ex released shortly after, was relatively successful, but not valve/id successful, and not successful enough to warrant a sequel that was not absolute shit, clearly.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Jadedness is clouding your view. See the post above you.

 

[Ash]

Invisible War was lackluster. I don't particularly care about how it came to be, only that it is and could easily happen again under Spector's direction. Conversely, System Shock 3 could also be the new greatest game of all time in my eyes, overriding Deus Ex, but it is more likely the reality is Spector hasn't got it in him anymore.

 

[Invictus]

I think most of the problems for IW were based on the fact the game was compromised (and consolized) to be a showcase for the XBox; the smaller less interesting levels, less interesting design, one type of ammo for all" and lackluster story all scream the fact.
And I agree with Ash, Spector might simply not have it anymore and the new game will probably just wont have "IT" but still one can dream

 

[Kem0sabe]

The main culprit for much of IW problems was the console focused development.

You couldn't have big levels due to memory limitations, you couldn't have expansive character development systems due to controller / Ui limitations, everything needed to be pruned and cut due to the Xbox.

I had the first xbox, and it was a fucking awesome console, especially if it was hacked into a media center of sorts. But fuck did a bunch of game franchises got neutered because of it.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

The main culprit for much of IW problems was the console focused development.

You couldn't have big levels due to memory limitations, you couldn't have expansive character development systems due to controller / Ui limitations, everything needed to be pruned and cut due to the Xbox.

I had the first xbox, and it was a fucking awesome console, especially if it was hacked into a media center of sorts. But fuck did a bunch of game franchises got neutered because of it.

The PS2 deus ex was surprisingly faithful despite levels getting chopped up. I genuinely think Warren and co misunderstood that you actually can get a solid DX experience on console.

 

[Roguey]

The PS2 deus ex was surprisingly faithful despite levels getting chopped up. I genuinely think Warren and co misunderstood that you actually can get a solid DX experience on console.

It did more than chop up levels.

the inventory is slot instead of grid based; JC has just one global health value instead of health for each body part; augs can be installed without a medbot; computers and keypads can only be used with logins that JC has in his datavault, no manual entry or guessing.

 

[mindx2]

I genuinely think Warren and co misunderstood that you actually can get a solid DX experience on console.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

The PS2 deus ex was surprisingly faithful despite levels getting chopped up. I genuinely think Warren and co misunderstood that you actually can get a solid DX experience on console.

It did more than chop up levels.

the inventory is slot instead of grid based; JC has just one global health value instead of health for each body part; augs can be installed without a medbot; computers and keypads can only be used with logins that JC has in his datavault, no manual entry or guessing.

The only really major casualty there is probably the loss of keypad functionality. Which as we know could easily have been implemented on the consoles of the day. Lilkewise, grid inventories are around in console games prior to this Era. The PS2 deus is a more faithful experience to the core game than IW is, and it was a design failure on the part of the IW dev team to strip out so many things. I don't even think they were just thinking of making it simpler for consoles, some of the changes I feel they really believed were improvements on the experience. The merging of skills and augs into biomods is probably the exemplar here.

 

[Ash]

The only really major casualty there is probably the loss of keypad functionality. Which as we know could easily have been implemented on the consoles of the day. Lilkewise, grid inventories are around in console games prior to this Era. The PS2 deus is a more faithful experience to the core game than IW is, and it was a design failure on the part of the IW dev team to strip out so many things. I don't even think they were just thinking of making it simpler for consoles, some of the changes I feel they really believed were improvements on the experience. The merging of skills and augs into biomods is probably the exemplar here.

Everything there should be considered a major casualty, but yes, needless ones. Consoles can do grid inventories, computer passwords and keypads, you only need to look at the first Resident Evil for one example of a game doing all of those things back in 1996.

The PS2 port was dumbed down for the money just as IW was.

 

[LESS T_T]

More ChrisS Facebook comments:

Daniel Jørgensen The only things i wish for is for you to get the atmosphere that SS2 had AND dont dumb it down! System Shock 3 simply NEEDS some sort of advanced inventory system for it to feel like a System shock game..

OtherSide Entertainment No worries dude, we don't do dumb. I fear sometimes we might push too far and people are not ready for it to be honest. Currently in UA we have almost 70 verbs that the player can use to interact with the world, are main steam gamers ready for such terrible terrible freedom? We'll see. The beauty of being indie is we can stand by our beliefs.

Craig Simas Ohhhhh.... I can't fucking wait!!! SS2 better get updated and playable on consoles. I haven't had a gaming PC since 2000. I miss playing them both. But especially SS2.

OtherSide Entertainment Me neither! SQUEEEEEE

Julian Di Cataldo After all these years I can finally get closure.

OtherSide Entertainment Closure? Or the first steps?

And about that removed comment:

OtherSide Entertainment the post above this was castrated.

Sidney Olsen Povlsen Just logged out to see if I was the only one who could see the comment, and it seems you did remove it. What the hell is your problem, you can't even take criticism? If you're just gonna shut up everyone giving you harsh criticism, then who do honestly you think is going to buy your game or talk about it to their friends or others? Sorry to break it to you, but you aren't exactly a recognised indie studio by the majority of the people out there. The only people who know your past are the people who've played your previous games, your original fanbase, so if you're just going to tell them to drop dead, then what will you have left? Nothing, that's what. You have a good past-reputation, and all we're asking is that you please try to live up to it.

Wonder what it was about.

OtherSide Entertainment Nah dude, it was not criticism it was threat. I have very little patience for gamer 'YOU BETTER DO' baloney. We have been doing this for a very long time with a track record that I will put up against any company on the planet. When in our history did we not deliver --even British open Golf was good. If you played our current prototype you would know we don't do castration of game systems or gameplay. LGS and it's pedigree are all about systems.Why would we change that?

Coming in with a grumpy attitude about developers, and assuming we are like all the other ones...why should I put up with that as a human being? To be clear tho--I didn't tell you to drop dead, I didn't block you, this is my corner of the internet and that kind of gamer privilege balderdash is not constructive in any sense so poof.

This is the guy's original comment:

Spoiler

Sidney Olsen Povlsen If these guys can't do a proper sequel, then the "Looking Glass" in OtherSide will die. There isn't room for error with this game, nor with Underworld Ascendant.

And if they lie to us or castrate the game mechanics, they'll lose most if not all credibility - I've had enough of the big publishers screwing over everyone along with people supporting them in their efforts. We need someone to reignite the true potential the videogame industry has. It doesn't have to be OtherSide or Nightdive doing it, but if either of them can't it's honestly really hard for me to say who it will be.

Please don't disappoint us, OtherSide. There's great potential lying beyond the rapidly stagnating pile of AAA-dirt being spewed by corrupt businessmen who's only interest is money rather than creating beautiful art such as that of Looking Glass' games.

Now more than ever, you have the chance to show everyone what the indie-scene is capable of accomplishing, how much more innovative you can be.

Please promise your fans that you'll utilize your skills as developers and as artists to the fullest extent.

 

[Cynicus]

OtherSide Entertainment Me neither! SQUEEEEEE

FFS. The Bioware is strong with this one.

 

[Alienman]

How was that considered a threat? They need safe spaces over there at OtherSide?

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

They just don't want a cesspool for forums. Really though, that kid is like 15 years old and is making demands. Fucking millennium babies.

 

[Ash]

That looks like an appeal to me, not a demand.

Are we sure this is the comment that triggered Chris S?

 

[LESS T_T]

 

[LESS T_T]

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonhughes

Right now, working on early stage game design, prototyping, integrating and developing new rendering tech to create the foundation for Warren Spector's next AAA game: System Shock 3. Later, hiring and leading a nimble team of game coding ninjas to build smart systems with deep simulation that promotes emergent gameplay.

Sounds right.

 

[Crooked Bee]

AAA? Who's funding this by the way - do they have a publisher or investor?

 

[LESS T_T]

Not sure about AAA, but at least we can find out who are early investors: https://angel.co/otherside-entertainment

Funny that Bethesda/Zenimax co-founder is one of their advisors.

 

[Zombra]

Funny that Bethesda/Zenimax co-founder is one of their advisors.

Presses "Not Funny" button

 

[Infinitron]

Hey, leave Chris Weaver alone. He got pushed out by the suits when Bethesda went popamole.

 

[Zombra]

Hey, leave Chris Weaver alone. He got pushed out by the suits when Bethesda went popamole.

Scrambles to press "contrite" button

 

[LESS T_T]