Vapourware Sui Generis + Exanima Early Access

[Technomancer]

Not sharing - selling!

licensing means selling. Technology gets ported into other projects by two most common means, either they buy it and operate on a license like all games since GTA 4 from Rockstar or dead Lucas Arts with Force Unleashed who both paid for amazing Euphoria physics engine or they share it because the studious know and help each other or belong to the same corporate entity and ordered to do so like Electronic Arts does for example, who force-feeds Frostbite engine on all their subsidiaries.

Neither applies to BM. I doubt that Bare Metal will lend their engine before they release SG at the very least, and it will be too late for the tech to be groundbreaking at that point.

So the only way left for others is to develop it on their own if the demand is high enough from the players.

the studious know and help each other

Like Naughty Dog and Insomniac Games, their studios were located in the same building once upon a time and they incorporated their main characters to each other's games as easter eggs and even extra characters, probably shared some animation tech behind the scenes. Or when Obsidian helped Owlcat with some info on dev process. It rarely goes into full tech cooperation without some third power enforcing it.

 

[Yaar Podshipnik]

It's very rare for a subsystem to be easily removable from its usual system environment. Usually, if you want to sell your subsystem, you would design it as a module, and then sell as some kind of middleware. That means you need to make some tradeoffs for encapsulation, and compatibility with other engines you want it to work. It's a big effort, and usually not worth doing "on the side".

 

[Technomancer]

27/4/20

With procedural items becoming more common, it was time to update our relevant systems. The first step was a new material system that can do better materials without impacting performance and adding to resource usage. We also need a better way to manage the huge number of unique materials and dynamically rendered textures.

The new system is much more tightly integrated with the core engine, it supports seamless streaming and multiple caching strategies to improve performance and reduce memory usage. It's all very efficient, scalable and future proof.

A quite difficult ongoing process is that of developing good realistic materials that can vary dramatically in quality and condition. Basically imagine a brand new sword timelapse aging into something old and badly rusted. Some of our tests so far have looked very impressive.

Once complete these updates will also affect characters and all armour and other apparel, which are already procedurally textured. This will improve visual quality, general performance and loading times.

Madoc had another go at reducing graphics driver CPU bottlenecks, but with a completely different approach and this time it seemed to work. The prototyped optimisation showed improvements to supersampling enabled performance of up to 40%.

We also discussed some ideas and details, both technical and gameplay-wise for upcoming arena content. There's a lot that we want to add, but we're not 100% ready to disclose what we have planned. That said, a lot of thought has been put into new arena maps, and new gameplay features.

Have a great week!
-the BM team

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

If these guys had as much a hard-on for content as they do systems optimization, they've have built an epic for the ages several years ago. I wonder if they focus on optimization because they lack the labor (artists, etc.) for content, or if this game merely became an outlet for their compulsive autism.

 

[karnak]

If these guys had as much a hard-on for content as they do systems optimization, they've have built an epic for the ages several years ago. I wonder if they focus on optimization because they lack the labor (artists, etc.) for content, or if this game merely became an outlet for their compulsive autism.

Just imagine if these guys had teamed up with the OCD freaks behind Project Zomboid...

 

[Zariusz]

Its sad that there is bigger chance that Half Life 3 will be announced and released before Exanima comes out of early access.
And then there is also Sui Generis...

 

[Technomancer]

Have faith people, the gears are grinding, they do not cease!

 

[Technomancer]

4/5/20

For some time now tools have been a big focus in development. Now we've also updated our material system to reduce the overhead of more complex materials, we're updating and remastering many important assets to take advantage of all this. As we're doing this a lot we're finding ways we can improve our tools further to streamline the process.

We are now generating weapons procedurally and testing them in game, but there's still work to do. New weapons will come with various new weapon related features, all the systems for procedural texturing are getting big upgrades, and we still need to work on the variable quality and conditions aspect of the materials.

Madoc was becoming frustrated with how complex designing materials that can age and degrade realistically is. Ultimately he added a new fully programmable function to our texture tools, which not only makes the tools much more flexible, but allows him to write code for systems like this and see the results of every step of the code fully interactively. This turned out to be a really great decision, it makes this work infinitely easier and we went from being very confused to getting some in game results within a day. We also fully implemented a new advanced image processing feature we needed for something else in about 10 minutes, and these feature will be hugely useful in developing in game visual effects and all sorts.

Work on trying to remove driver bottlenecks from our supersampling continues. There's quite a lot of rendering pipeline changes involved, and the drivers can be incredibly stupid and eager to sneak pointless overheads back in, but we're working through it and it looks promising.

As part of updated options screen we wanted to include some resolution options, but we thought it would be better to include a render upscaling option instead, keeping the user interface and various other things at native resolution. We tried to leverage our supersampling to get better results from the upscaling got some great results. With driver bottlenecks reduced, high resolutions take the front seat, and with this scaling in 4k we got a 70% increase in performance with barely an impact on visual quality.

Have a great week!
-the BM team

 

[Yaar Podshipnik]

I admire Madoc's perfectionism, but hope he won't go the route of simulating the bicep strength of the smith and impurities in water used for cooling to determine weapon properties.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

The weapon degradation is decline. Not that they want it, but that they are trying to simulate it dynamically. So much window dressing. Those deck chairs on the Titanic are going to look so good when it hits the bottom of the ocean.

 

[Modron]

Equipment durability .

 

[Yaar Podshipnik]

I didn't read that durability in a sense that you need to fix your shit every 5 mins. It sounds more like the system can generate a sword that is pristine, straight from smith or a sword that was laying in some damp chest for half a century (you will see examples like that when you play the game). At least nothing in current Exanima gameplay indicates that devs like such game-like systems like equipment durability.

 

[AdolfSatan]

Worst part is that it's not like these are excuses to justify a lack of progress and delays, since every time an update comes it shows all the features promised, but why does he have to be so autistic about minituae? This game would have benefited so much from a project manager.

 

[Harthwain]

I didn't read that durability in a sense that you need to fix your shit every 5 mins. It sounds more like the system can generate a sword that is pristine, straight from smith or a sword that was laying in some damp chest for half a century (you will see examples like that when you play the game). At least nothing in current Exanima gameplay indicates that devs like such game-like systems like equipment durability.

I am thinking the same. It sounds like they want to make old, rusty swords less combat-worthy than the swords that are in a good condition.

 

[Yaar Podshipnik]

I think this is pretty much a labour-of-love project for Madoc. He doesn't want a project manager, doesn't need one. It's done when it's done. Personally, I already had so much fun with this game that whatever I paid for it is justified. Also, I'm pretty sure GridCartographer has rounded corners because of this game. So it is making the world a better place

 

[Technomancer]

11/5/20

Madoc spent most of the week battling with drivers again, this time over visual quality issues rather than performance. It was a frustrating process, but we did upgrade quite a few things that are still useful along the way.

Procedural weapons are going very well, we've finally got aging ferrous materials working really well and they look great. That was the hardest part, we're getting through other materials fast and as a whole the system is nearly complete. We hope to have our first fully production-ready procedural weapon later today.

Various other new assets are being developed for the arena update, and in parallel we're also working out our role structure so that we can start using roles properly soon.

Once the new procedural weapon and material systems are complete we're mostly left with gameplay systems and features for the arena update.

Have a great week!
-the BM team

 

[agris]

"aging ferrous materials", man, you gotta give it to these guys. one has to wonder though, if there were an experienced project leader who helped them prioritize their efforts, where would the game be today? probably with a less-robust ferrous materials aging model...

 

[Technomancer]

if there were an experienced project leader who helped them prioritize their efforts, where would the game be today? probably with a less-robust ferrous materials aging model...

Bethesda has a good project leader. They just love to cut down their games and simplify the systems to streamline the process and expand their market. They are even successful. Their success among the casual masses does not appeal to RPG players who want complexity and innovation in games though. So maybe it's good for BM to do their own thing at their own pace, if slow-ass dev time is the price we must pay for incline?

Btw, agris are you the maker of Shadowrun mod for >1AP attacks? Playing Hong Kong right now, and its finally not brain dead easy. God bless!

 

[thesecret1]

I, for one, am excited for aging ferrous materials.

 

[Berekän]

The world needs less AAA studios and more autistic indie developers trying to fullfill their visions of fully simulated water drops causing your equipment to rust. And I'm completely serious.

 

[agris]

Technomancer and Berekän

Surely there is a spectrum of project management approaches that result in a gamut of outcomes between accurate modeling of corrosion's impact on the properties of weapons made of ferrous materials, and bethesda games. I'm no AAA lover (although these boards do love them some wanna-be AAAs *cough* OE *cough* inXile), but from casual reading of this thread it appears that:

1. For a certain type of player (of which I would likely be a member, although I haven't played it), the gameplay and content that is in Examina is quite compelling. This is driven by the novel mechanics, difficulty, and care that has been put into systems and level/encounter design.
2. Exanima's development has been very slow, and it's original intention was to be a proving ground for a larger game.

All I am saying is that creative talents and skills often benefit from some external direction and motivation. I'm totally sympathetic to the premise of let the auteur author, and it seems like his creation to-date is enjoyed. Yet, I wonder, if those energies could have been shaped and directed in a slightly - not talking Todd Howard directing minions at Bethesda here - more focused manner, would the inspiration and creative spark that lead to Examina being so enjoyable for you have extended its reach through more substantive content such that people outside of the codex combatfag-type would appreciate? Would the developer's work be more self actualized with some direction?

The update on modeling corrosion of ferrous materials made this point quite easy to raise, I thought. I am not casting stones; I haven't even played the game.

edit: grammar, clarity

edit2: oh, I didn't really invent the mod. Calling it a mod is too generous, it's tweaking a few numbers in text files. I read about it for one of the platforms (DF? HK?) and just took the step of extending the approach to all version of SR that supported that AI scripting language (so all but SRR).

 

[Technomancer]

accurate modeling of corrosion's impact on the properties of weapons made of ferrous materials

People often see madoc as an autist savant, who likes to code stuff just for the sake of it but in reality, he is a man with a plan. If he does something he does it with future content in mind. Like he needs those systems to add some things later, maybe he just works on parts of the code by order and he needs to write this stuff right now to avoid bringing it up later, maybe he just had a dream about players leaving weapons in the rain in Sui Generis only to find them rusted later in the game to their surprise, maybe there is corrosion-like spell planned, or maybe there are other reasons we are not aware off, they are infinite. The point is there is no wasted or pointless effort.

if those energies could have been shaped and directed in a slightly more focused manner

I just can't see it happening. madoc is a team lead, he assembled the team, he created the game by his own hands, wrote every bit of code, went through extreme lengths to not outsource software, to stay independent...all that work, all these years of labour only to listen directions from a new team member telling him how to do stuff? I think he is fully aware that things could be done more efficiently but they just have no choice. Where could they find director anyway? A man like that, you need to trust him but you can't just call your best mate for the job, you need professional with many successful projects behind the belt, that sort of experience costs cash, cold hard cash that BM does not have. They operate with a small crew where every man has an actual dev area, no place in budget for a separate director. And project lead who can do actual dev work in addition will cost even more.

Besides, decade long projects like this work best on passion with original creators who envisioned the game and are moved by the dream to see it happen. When the suits take over to call the shots that's when the cutting and "workflow optimizations" start. I still remember how stalker was butchered by THQ's own Dean Sharpe, they stuck in the dev hell true, but his solution was to cut most of the major features of the original design, features that were aborted permanently never to return. Not at that scale but Bioshock Infinite suffered it too, Dead Space and more, many are the tales of the dead... Let it bud, let it grow slow, they can always rip stuff later if they will get desperate enough.

oh, I didn't really invent the mod. Calling it a mod is too generous, it's tweaking a few numbers in text files. I read about it for one of the platforms (DF? HK?) and just took the step of extending the approach to all version of SR that supported that AI scripting language (so all but SRR).

Pretty cool still. HB must have been retarded to think it was too hard to be an option for a player to choose. Vanilla experience is godawful. The last thing that drives me nuts in that game is disappearing bodies, it reeks cheap product and unoptimised engine. I figure it's pretty much impossible to fix it with modding, right?

 

[Fenix]

The world needs less AAA studios

I agree with this even without that

more autistic indie developers trying to fullfill their visions of fully simulated water drops causing your equipment to rust

 

[Lithium Flower]

World needs less video games in general. Fucking degenerate wastes of time. Real men pump iron and fuck bitches with their pumped-up iron dicks. Steel-hard cocks with curves, like those cars that they don't make no more. Depleted uranium hotrods. Mhm.

 

[Beowulf]

World needs less video games in general. Fucking degenerate wastes of time. Real men pump iron and fuck bitches with their pumped-up iron dicks. Steel-hard cocks with curves, like those cars that they don't make no more. Depleted uranium hotrods. Mhm.

So you're the guy who wrote much of the Disco Elysium dialogues, I see.