Vapourware Sui Generis + Exanima Early Access

[Beowulf]

Well, Exanima's combat is something unique in this day and age, and reminds me of Die by the Sword. Sure, those games will share the engine, the combat mechanics, most objects and artwork (as I assume), but they also need to create content.
And content for Exanima is dripping very slowly and in small doses. Unless they've been putting massive amount of work towards Sui Generis behind the scenes (which I doubt, because why bother with Exanima in the first place), it won't come out in a decade.
As you said - who knows, though? But I'm not optimistic.

 

[Beowulf]

They run that kickstarter 6 years ago.

8.

Bloody hell, you're right.
8 years to create early access demo.

 

[Technomancer]

What will they finish exactly?
Exanima?

Yeah, it's gonna be finished in 4-7 years realistically speaking. Then they will move on SG. Will probably do another Kickstarter with something to show this time, if they raise proper funds this time around they could fasten the development by hiring more people. The development of Exanima is so slow because BM is working with a skeleton crew almost on pure enthusiasm. Sui Generis is not in active development but everything done in Exanima is a work done for SG. Churning up levels and models is easy, refining their physics engine, improving animations and building a simulation framework for the ultimate goal is a lot of work for the main guy.

 

[Darkzone]

Madoc should start on working on SG and not on every detail of the engine, because the time will make their endeavour futile in every department.

 

[Technomancer]

Madoc should start on working on SG and not on every detail of the engine, because the time will make their endeavour futile in every department.

I don't think he has a choice at this point. They can either finish this game and move on to the next or drop it right now and face abandonware outrage. They can't afford to split up and do them both at the same time. Honestly, I do not think they need to.

To finish Exanima and at the same time the foundation for the SG they've got to do the following:
-missing magic disciplines
-procedural equipment
-advanced AI behavior

After that is done they can port this stuff to SG and start their monumental work on world sim systems for the new game.

 

[Lithium Flower]

My odds for SG ever seeing the light of day are extremely low. Honestly, the original kickstarter pitch was kind of shit as well and perfectly indicative of the early kickstarter gold rush - a bunch of grand promises while being as vague and generic as possible on the details. Enter a fantastical world that is like nothing you've seen before yet sounds exactly like everything we've heard before and oh by the way here is a fucking faux-Shakespearean wall of text that can be best summarized as "much ado about jack shit" as an example of dialogue we are going to feature in our game (this thing is a must read as absurd as it is, seriously.) The only substantial and unique thing they've shown off was their physics-based combat system and surprise that is the entire backbone of Exanima - and what a backbone it is.

That being said, I don't care much about SG (then again I never paid into the kickstarter so I am not affected by buyer's remorse) and I much prefer they just continue working on Exanima. I will take a short yet focused, unique, and challenging game - even in its unfinished state - over a shot for the proverbial moon that after 10+ years is probably going to end up in a proverbial crater. Proverbially.

 

[Technomancer]

My odds for SG ever seeing the light of day are extremely low.

A lot can happen of course but the devs simply never gave me a reason to doubt them and slowly but surely they are moving forward without any stop. We are talking here about people who envisioned their game since they were young and they are pretty hellbent on bringing it to reality. Both Kenshi and AoD took a decade to make too.

While I am fairly certain that SG will see the light of day in the future I also don't think it will be RPG second coming or anything. Advanced world sim is a lofty goal and many devs attempted it over the years but all of them were forced to accept reality and give up on their original concept.

 

[karnak]

I'd just as easily make fun of Ex Anima's progress... were not for the fact that I bought Project Zomboid imagining the game would come out in 2/3 years

 

[Darkzone]

To finish Exanima and at the same time the foundation for the SG they've got to do the following:
-missing magic disciplines
-dismemberment
-procedural equipment
-advanced AI behavior

After that is done they can port this stuff to SG and start their monumental work on world sim systems for the new game.

I would say that the only useful thing in this list is the advanced AI behavior and even this can be questioned.

 

[Technomancer]

I would say that the only useful thing in this list is the advanced AI behavior and even this can be questioned.

Sure but magic is a big part of overall plot and lore, they can't start SG without it getting finished. Other things are just extra to do along the way, the more they do now, the more they can show off later. After Exanima 1.0 they are going to add ranged combat for example, cosmetic stuff like dismemberment and blood pools are likely to be delayed until after release too, stuff like that is low on the priority list.

 

[Darkzone]

I would say that the only useful thing in this list is the advanced AI behavior and even this can be questioned.

Sure but the magic is a big part of overall plot and lore, they can't start SG without it getting finished. Other things are just extra to do along the way, the more they do now, the more they can show off later. After Exanima 1.0 they are going to add ranged combat for example, cosmetic stuff like dismemberment and blood pools are likely to be delayed until after release too, stuff like that is low on the priority list.

If it is vital part of the plot and lore and therefore the gameplay, then magic is a must.
But dismemberment is more of a hmm thing, while procedural equipment is rather a decrement to games (exception: Diablo like).
Dismemberment is difficult in their case due to the change of physical behavior, blood pools as decals is easy made even in their engine.
You are often on their forum?

 

[Technomancer]

Dismemberment is difficult in their case due to the change of physical behavior

Yeah, I fear it's gonna be dropped entirely if it will be to difficult to integrate.

while procedural equipment is rather a decrement to games

I misspoke. Not equipment but weapons specifically. Armor and clothing are already procedural, with diffirent colours, textures and quality. Procedural weapons are big howerer. Exanima combat is very unique, there are no hitboxes. Every weapon feels different, has different weight, speed, balance, physics and because of that performance in combat. I got sick of the same weapons, I know them by heart, but just replacing the blade in a 2H sword will make a weapon that is new and unknown to me.

You are often on their forum?

Never on forums, often on the Discord channel.

Devs often speak about the game there, for example:

Madoc02/23/2020 most basic strict requirements for 1.0 are 4 more levels, force thaumaturgy and ranged combat but we're doing a bit more than that, some form of multiplayer, procedural weapons and a few other bits and bobs

 

[Technomancer]

16/3/20

The beta bug report channels have been very quiet this week, and we've had time to put many finishing touches on everything. We're looking to release what is basically a release candidate within 2 days for final testing. We expect the public release to be close behind as at this point we're basically just adding content.

Here are a few things we went over for today's meeting;

-Showed and discussed the new content for the update.
-New animation adjustments and improvements added for undead & various creatures.
-Many bug fixes made.
-Made some changes regarding AI & thaumaturgy interactions.
-Last remaining assets & light sources added to the new level.
-Lots of adjustments, improvements, and overall work made towards thaumaturgy.

We're very happy with the state of the update and how much it brings to the game. Thaumaturgy, lots of content, new encounters, some good general improvements and some other cool stuff you'll have to discover yourself!

Lastly, this is easily our biggest update yet. It brings the game much closer to completion with so much important work done. We're excited to wrap it up and see what you think, and of course to moving on to make more. Our roadmap for 1.0 is looking slim and quite clean of major hurdles, everything we do now will add so much value to the game.

Have a great week!
-the BM team

 

[Darkzone]

Dismemberment is difficult in their case due to the change of physical behavior

Yeah, I fear it's gonna be dropped entirely if it will be to difficult to integrate.

while procedural equipment is rather a decrement to games

I misspoke. Not equipment but weapons specifically. Armor and clothing are already procedural, with diffirent colours, textures and quality. Procedural weapons are big howerer. Exanima combat is very unique, there are no hitboxes. Every weapon feels different, has different weight, speed, balance, physics and because of that performance in combat. I got sick of the same weapons, I know them by heart, but just replacing the blade in a 2H sword will make a weapon that is new and unknown to me.

You are often on their forum?

Never on forums, often on the Discord channel.
Devs often speak about the game there, for example:

Madoc02/23/2020 most basic strict requirements for 1.0 are 4 more levels, force thaumaturgy and ranged combat but we're doing a bit more than that, some form of multiplayer, procedural weapons and a few other bits and bobs

I was yesterday not in my best form. Procedural textures of an armor and procedural value based chosen armor is a different kind of breed than diablo like. The same applies to weapons and what you have written here is quite correct and good, at least to my understanding and experience of Examina. I should play it again this summer to observe the changes from the past two years.
I forgot that discord is now replacing the forums.

 

[Fenix]

I forgot that discord is now replacing the forums.

Yeah, it's pure cancer.

 

[Technomancer]

Since pretty much no one gives a fuck about this game I'm going to post weekly updates from now on. Someone has to do the gods' work. Deus vult, motherfuckers.

23/3/20

A complete version of the update including all the content was released last weekend, and is in testing. We've already fixed most bugs and content issues, though there's one nasty bug in particular we're still hunting, and we'll hopefully squash that soon.

There's a couple of things (not crucial) that should be finished, but we can always add those in a patch after the initial release.

We're aiming for a public release of Exanima 0.8.0 as soon as we're through with bug fixes. We know you're all in hopeful anticipation, and so are we.

Have a great week!
-the BM team

 

[Yaar Podshipnik]

Technomancer Thanks for this! I do care about this game a lot, but don't want to play unfinished product. I have 149hrs on it, both the campaing and arena. Fucking love it, and hope devs will finish it.

 

[Lyre Mors]

I care very much about the game, but am indeed extremely annoyed that I bought it 5 years ago and it's still unfinished. I don't play Early Access. Really hope to see this actually finished someday, but have pretty much lost all hope of ever seeing Sui Generis, which was my initial impetus to buy the Early Access of Exanima.

 

[V_K]

Well, while they were procrastinating, these folks already stole all their thunder:

 

[Technomancer]

Well, while they were procrastinating, these folks already stole all their thunder

The drunken fighting meme is outdated. You only fight drunk if you have less than 100h playing the game with current systems. People should check out the new movement rig.

It was horrible at one point though, that is true. Not long ago I played one of the early iterations of the game and it was godawful compared to what we have now. And after playing current Exanima for so long just watching old SG combat demos is painful.

 

[V_K]

You only fight drunk if you have less than 100h playing the game with current systems.

less than 100h

 

[Technomancer]

Yeah, it seems like much. But it is way too different to give it anything less. Past hundred everything slowly starts to click, the motion of combat, the impact of armaments, you start to feel the reach of the weapons intuitively, you learn to predict hits and dodge or strike preemptively. It reminded me of learning drawing for some reason but not as hard. I still remember vividly that I was so bad when I started playing, I thought this game was bullshit and that it was ridiculously hard and unwieldy. Still loved the physics from the first moments.

Check this out. By catching your opponent mid hit and unbalanced you can send them flying if you apply enough force and momentum. Looks easy, but you can't just start the game and do stuff like that within first hours.

 

[Fenix]

I coudn't learn advanced moves after 23 hours in game.
The point is I expecting I won't at all because if I coudn't in 23 hours then...

 

[Technomancer]

I coudn't learn advanced moves after 23 hours in game.
The point is I expecting I won't at all because if I coudn't in 23 hours then...

You still could be. I'm judging by my own experience and I consider myself only somewhat hardcore. I was still bad on 75 mark. On 100 I started to feel confident enough to try stuff out in combat but since I played for fun and never watched any tutorials I was still kinda bad, I couldn't do thrust or god forbid Left to Right swing and was mad at the dev who said he can do it reliably 9 times out 10. I was certain that that was a lie and this maneuver should be rebinded to do it easier. Now at 400h mark I can indeed make it 9 out of 10 and don't see the problem anymore. The one-hit kills and homerun swings as in the gif above I learned only after 250h, not by tutorials or guides, just by simple observation on what I'm doing good. I did not even knew it was possible untill it suddenly became my favorite move.

I feel like the real learning starts in arena once you get your character to master level with 10 skills to offer you full combat control. Before that you are just learning the ropes. Then you assemble your first exceptional plate and start wrecking. The plate and layers offer so much protection that it gives you a lot of room for error, and gives you this feeling of invulnerability. Influenced by it you soon become a bit overconfident in combat and start experimenting and take risks, often eating hits that would've killed you if you were unprotected. Coupled with experience you accumulated up until this point this is the part where you find your most effective combat move and weapon and perfect it while everything finally starts to come together.

All should avoid shields like a plague though. You can't learn nearly as much from their slow defensive playstyle.

 

[V_K]

Now at 400h mark