Stormgate - sci-fi/fantasy RTS from ex-Blizzard devs - now on Early Access

[ArchAngel]

Just on the esports topic they don't design games that way because of the 'sport' or because it's what gamers want, They do it because of advertising and sponsorship bux. Even more so these days because of influencers and online transactions being the norm.

While most players prefer good SP, there are few windows to turn that into lucrative advertising contracts with doritos or mountain dew, No team shirts to slap sponsors on, etc

Esports isn't lucrative directly for the company making the game, it easily costs them if they would be the ones funding and hosting the tournaments. Rather it's a way to market the game.

Is catering to the esports crowd even good marketing anymore? For the amount of effort you need to pump into it, it seems like RTS devs would be better served catering to nostalgic older players instead.

I haven't done any research, but I feel like a lot of RTS enthusiasts mostly just buy these games for the campaign without really touching multiplayer.

It is more for e-peen size of CEO of company making the game.

 

[Multidirectional]

Esports isn't lucrative directly for the company making the game, it easily costs them if they would be the ones funding and hosting the tournaments. Rather it's a way to market the game.

And people who play multiplayer are the ones who end up playing these games for 10+ years. How long do these "80% single player" gamers last in them? I'm guessing not as long. Probably big part of why it's so hard to make a new successful RTS, because good luck prying players away from RTS of their choice that they already invested so much time in.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

Just on the esports topic they don't design games that way because of the 'sport' or because it's what gamers want, They do it because of advertising and sponsorship bux. Even more so these days because of influencers and online transactions being the norm.

While most players prefer good SP, there are few windows to turn that into lucrative advertising contracts with doritos or mountain dew, No team shirts to slap sponsors on, etc

Esports isn't lucrative directly for the company making the game, it easily costs them if they would be the ones funding and hosting the tournaments. Rather it's a way to market the game.

Is catering to the esports crowd even good marketing anymore? For the amount of effort you need to pump into it, it seems like RTS devs would be better served catering to nostalgic older players instead.

I haven't done any research, but I feel like a lot of RTS enthusiasts mostly just buy these games for the campaign without really touching multiplayer.

Esports isn't lucrative directly for the company making the game, it easily costs them if they would be the ones funding and hosting the tournaments. Rather it's a way to market the game.

And people who play multiplayer are the ones who end up playing these games for 10+ years. How long do these "80% single player" gamers last in them? I'm guessing not as long. Probably big part of why it's so hard to make a new successful RTS, because good luck prying players away from RTS of their choice that they already invested so much time in.

RTS generally hasn’t offered PvE content dlc after release, but it’s one of the few monetization schemes that I can think of which caters to the 80%. You can only play the same campaign so many times before it gets repetitive. If they had more content to buy and enjoy, then wouldn’t they?

As I recall, Blizz was initially surprised by the popularity of co-op but gave it up on soon after.

 

[duke nukem]

New tier 3 unit reveal for Vanguard.

The Graven:

I like this design. Its going to be fun to play with! Its like mix of ghost, reaper mixed with spy from Red Alert. Its cool actually to see Spy design incorporated in to the game as i honestly think its probably most underrated unit design in rts games.

 

[Multidirectional]

As I recall, Blizz was initially surprised by the popularity of co-op but gave it up on soon after.

Supposedly co-op is going to be high priority for Stormgate so seems like FGS at least took notice of that. It's the single player campaign that I doubt will be worth bothering with here.

New tier 3 unit reveal for Vanguard.

The Graven:

I like this design. Its going to be fun to play with! Its like mix of ghost, reaper mixed with spy from Red Alert. Its cool actually to see Spy design incorporated in to the game as i honestly think its probably most underrated unit design in rts games.

Yeah here come the fucking cloaked units. I was hoping they will avoid cloaked/teleporting bullshit but I guess it was inevitable. It's the most annoying shit in SC2 for me. Hopefully at least there's no SG version of Battlecruiser turtles.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

As I recall, Blizz was initially surprised by the popularity of co-op but gave it up on soon after.

Supposedly co-op is going to be high priority for Stormgate so seems like FGS at least took notice of that. It's the single player campaign that I doubt will be worth bothering with here.

New tier 3 unit reveal for Vanguard.

The Graven:

I like this design. Its going to be fun to play with! Its like mix of ghost, reaper mixed with spy from Red Alert. Its cool actually to see Spy design incorporated in to the game as i honestly think its probably most underrated unit design in rts games.

Yeah here come the fucking cloaked units. I was hoping they will avoid cloaked/teleporting bullshit but I guess it was inevitable. It's the most annoying shit in SC2 for me. Hopefully at least there's no SG version of Battlecruiser turtles.

I think C&C had decent teleport and cloak mechanics. Teleporting generally has the caveat that the unit can’t attack while reappearing, while cloaking is broken by proximity or attacking.

It’s only in SC that it becomes an “I win” button without a detector.

 

[Multidirectional]

I think C&C had decent teleport and cloak mechanics. Teleporting generally has the caveat that the unit can’t attack while reappearing, while cloaking is broken by proximity or attacking.

It’s only in SC that it becomes an “I win” button without a detector.

At least in case of Stormgate it's a tier 3 unit, so you can't make it early game where it's much easier to catch someone unprepared. And it's not some permanently cloaked super high damage shit like Dark Templars.

 

[Johannes]

Cloaked stuff getting in early on kinda forces it to be a proper part of the game, if its only on a super late, it can easily become boring rps mechanic (do you invest a lot in lategame super unit that could be hard countered / do you invest in detection to block that same shit)

 

[Infinitron]

 

[-M-]

LOL it's just the protoss.

 

[Multidirectional]

Yeah it was expected, they already have Terran and Zerg.

 

[duke nukem]

But arent they Terran? They have flying main building and mines.

I guess its ok to talk about it now. I think its mix of protoss, C&C building and undead/night elf/terran. No unit warp ins, and economy is bit different. I was actually struggling with the economy, because im not sure what is the best way to expand, when to start and stop building flying diamonds that harvest things and when to make new mines with the flying donut. Also having to decide if to make regular mine or the metal mine makes things hard, because metal mines can also make flying diamonds. I guess i have to wait to see some pro players playing them.

Animancers are so strong. Its definitely my favorite unit and makes your base really hard to attack. They are useless against infernals though. They just joink them and then they die. Actually i have no idea how to defeat any decent infernal, because Celestials gets ass kicked in the air, so you cant make them. Animancers gets destroyed by joinks, same with laser tanks. So feels like best way to deal them is to just rush them to death if possible. I think maps are too small for efficient Animancer`s stealth spell harassment, because the regular pew pew unit deals so little damage, so you just get ganked. But in the offence and defence its useful spell. I guess using the dark whirlpool on the enemy worker line could work and then use another animancer to cast invisibility to escape, but when you get Animancers, then im not sure if few dying workers matter at all.

I also like the scout unit that works almost like huntress owls. They are very cheap and gives good early warning against enemy movements.

Those teleporting vehicles seems to be useless. Because maps are so small, then if you make them then enemy just rush you to death, because you have just bunch of units that are useless in head on fighting.

 

[thesheeep]

I am honestly fine with them stealing ideas and aspects left and right for their races.
At least nothing seems to be a 1:1 copy and everything seems to have some unique ideas attached.

At this point, with so much fiction out within and without the gaming sphere, it has become practically impossible to create something entirely unique anyway.
So why even try if you can instead do a competent mix-and-match.

I only wish they hadn't just copy-pasted the entire art style. Oh, well...

 

[RaggleFraggle]

I predicted robot angels before. Called it. Anyway, their economy seems to be inspired by aspects of C&C’s power plants, Universe at War’s Masari, and Grey Goo’s Goo. Very different from past Blizz clones. With their reach, I’m hoping this will inspire other devs to be similarly innovative.

 

[ArchAngel]

Who is this game for? Why does every unit need to have abilities and special complicated rules?
Who is going to want to play this except few people thinking to become new generation of pro players or something?!

 

[ArchAngel]

And when this game fails they are again going to blame it on "RTS are not popular" excuse

 

[Lyric Suite]

It's a game made specifically for multiplayer. You are free to dislike the "pro" scene as much as you want, but this game was specifically intended to cater to that from day one. A literal spiritual successor to SC2, advertized as such from the get go. This bitching from the retarded casuls is already annoying as it is but now apparently devs aren't even allowed to cater to the multiplayer people at all, all because of the sour grapes brigade and their fuming about losing a match online against some 300 APM kid that one time.

 

[luj1]

Yeah it was expected, they already have Terran and Zerg.

Really poor innovation from this company

just rehashing old ideas

 

[luj1]

It's a game made specifically for multiplayer. You are free to dislike the "pro" scene as much as you want, but this game was specifically intended to cater to that from day one

and it sucks at that

if u really want MP focus, battlefield readability, sound design and pathing is 101

 

[Lyric Suite]

It's a game made specifically for multiplayer. You are free to dislike the "pro" scene as much as you want, but this game was specifically intended to cater to that from day one

and it sucks at that

Sure, but you still can't bitch about what the game was advertized for.

"Who is this intended for, multiplayer kids?"

Yes, yes it is.

 

[Multidirectional]

just rehashing old ideas

More like remixing. I don't mind races looking familiar myself, and game felt different enough from SC II when I played it. It was significantly less volatile, which is the main thing I wanted. Lower lethality and no getting annoyed by air units only few minutes into the game. Last games I've seen of it also seemed to have noticeable visual improvements, game looked less flat and fights seemed more readable. Couldn't tell about the sounds as game volume was really low in comparison to commentator voice. Will definitely be trying it again when early access comes, should be August 13 according to them.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I am honestly fine with them stealing ideas and aspects left and right for their races.
At least nothing seems to be a 1:1 copy and everything seems to have some unique ideas attached.

At this point, with so much fiction out within and without the gaming sphere, it has become practically impossible to create something entirely unique anyway.
So why even try if you can instead do a competent mix-and-match.

I only wish they hadn't just copy-pasted the entire art style. Oh, well...

In games of this type (successful, long term competitive games), quality is far more important than novelty.

Even aesthetic quality matters (Stormgate lost a lot of points on that alone).

Trying "new" things is not the perview of this kind of games. Design perfection is all that matters. Blizzard back when they were good actually excelled at this. All the screeching about their games lacking in "innovation" didn't matter to people because anyone willing to spend a 1000 hours on Diablo 2 or Stacraft weren't looking at innovation. Novelty isn't important for games that are meant to be played for years on end because it doesn't take much for novelty to become old but perfection lasts forever.

In that sense, a lot of the downfall of Blizzard begun in 2010, with their tripple whammy of decline, namely SC2, Diablo 3 and Cataclysm.

 

[Johannes]

I am honestly fine with them stealing ideas and aspects left and right for their races.
At least nothing seems to be a 1:1 copy and everything seems to have some unique ideas attached.

At this point, with so much fiction out within and without the gaming sphere, it has become practically impossible to create something entirely unique anyway.
So why even try if you can instead do a competent mix-and-match.

I only wish they hadn't just copy-pasted the entire art style. Oh, well...

In games of this type (successful, long term competitive games), quality is far more important than novelty.

Even aesthetic quality matters (Stormgate lost a lot of points on that alone).

Trying "new" things is not the perview of this kind of games. Design perfection is all that matters. Blizzard back when they were good actually excelled at this. All the screeching about their games lacking in "innovation" didn't matter to people because anyone willing to spend a 1000 hours on Diablo 2 or Stacraft weren't looking at innovation. Novelty isn't important for games that are meant to be played for years on end because it doesn't take much for novelty to become old but perfection lasts forever.

In that sense, a lot of the downfall of Blizzard begun in 2010, with their tripple whammy of decline, namely SC2, Diablo 3 and Cataclysm.

Their early games were definitely innovative back in the day

 

[ArchAngel]

It's a game made specifically for multiplayer. You are free to dislike the "pro" scene as much as you want, but this game was specifically intended to cater to that from day one. A literal spiritual successor to SC2, advertized as such from the get go. This bitching from the retarded casuls is already annoying as it is but now apparently devs aren't even allowed to cater to the multiplayer people at all, all because of the sour grapes brigade and their fuming about losing a match online against some 300 APM kid that one time.

Pro scene does not exist without game having mass appeal because if nobody is watching those pros, nobody is sponsoring the pro scene and those "pros" are just retarded nerds wasting their life on nothing.

Sc2 became less and less watchable (and playable) with time, expansions and added complexity that random viewers could not understand or appreciate and this Stormshit seems to be going even more in that direction.

I've been watching C&C Generals FFA tournaments recently and I've finally understood why I really enjoyed the MP in that game when Zero Hour was first released. It had that X factor, I felt it while playing but could not explain it as I was young.
Game is fun and crazy in the style of Starcraft BW with OP unit but still everything can be countered by a good player. It is easily understood, units do not need super convoluted abilities like in Stormshit but they are still all distinct and have easy to understand roles for both players and watchers.
Micro matters, especially in early game but not to autistic level of Starcraft and if you can reach endgame you can still get into phase of doing mass battles.
Matches are fairly fast, there is no turtling for 40 minutes and kill enemy with a death ball, other sides have multiple ways to punish such players.
Lots of factions, most fairly distinct with unique units and abilities that matter on the battlefield. Sound and atmosphere excellent for all 3 main factions.
Rushing, economy or tech paths all work so you can employ many strategies.

If someone remade C&C Generals in a better looking and working engine that does not crash once you reach 1000 units and does not desync all the time, made proper matchmaking and observer tools and made units just a bit more responsive it would blow away any competition, especially shit like Stormshit.
And Generals already has challenge missions, one just needs to make them Co-op as training for MP.

 

[Lyric Suite]

None of that shit matters. It's a game meant to cater to SC2 players. Complaining about what it is despite the fact it's literally advertized as a Starcraft spiritual successor is just retarded.

It's like if someone were to make a spiritual successor to Quake 3: Arena only for people to come in asking why the game is multiplayer only, arguing the reason Quake was popular was the single player and so on when the game's entire point was to follow up from Quake 3 specifically.

Also, nobody gives a shit about what you think is what makes RTS games popular when the reality speaks otherwise. Blizzard made the most popular RTS games of all time. ALL of them build around the things you say are bad for the genre. How do you explain that?

So far, the failure of Stormgate is not that the game is catering to the multiplayer crowd, but simply that the game doesn't even remotely seem to have the same quality of Starcraft. That's the only hurdle it has to clear. SC2 itself barely made it across the finish line, with the inconsistent design in the new units, the shit sounds and so on. The only thing that saved the game as far as i can see is the engine as well as the fact that at the end of the day it's still mostly just Starcraft.