Starsector - RT 2D indie space goodness

[Rewrite]

Good lord, this 4 deployment points thing can strip 14000 shield flux from a cruiser in 6 seconds KEK
and then add 8k hull damage for good measure roffles

if only the ai could fly it...

 

[Fenix]

Phase ship?

 

[Rewrite]

Yeah, but you might not even need phasing, you need enough shield cap to tank 3 volleys of cruiser fire and then your pointy rockits just shred shield flux.
Point blank 200*5*200%==2000 shield dmg in one shot, 1 second.
The red rockit torpedo is 4000 vs armor. You have 2 of them. And the other missile rack is another 6*750 dmg vs armor.
Its was fun running it in the sim.

Fat cruisers with 14k shield and more survive though and then you have nothing left to hurt them with. Then again, the Ion cannon can be replaced with more anti-shield rockets and the 6*750 rack with another Red Rockit - than even the big 25 deployment points cruisers would die.

But its not an ai-controlled-fleet viable config either so no tears lost. The AI will just shoot the red torpedo at the worst possible time, at a shield, at long range...
and waste shield-killer rockets on frigates and then blink around plinking with ions.

 

[Rewrite]

oh shit, i didnt realize that the ayys get ALL their skill ELITE by default too!

puny skinbags get one and you either have to get lucky or pay for it in s t o r y p o i n t s

larping ai master is greate

 

[Rewrite]

the ai fucking sucks...
game is weird as shit

so i pick wolfpack as skill cause the other option is literal trash

and we are about to fite these for an alpha ai core
their thick boi is a 25 deploy.pts cruiser (my fattest ship is 9), nasty shields, fighter bay, 4 point defense lazors so torps dont make it trhough and a plasma cannon and there is destroyer there too...

i fite the fite ten times at x4 speed and for lulz try the WOLFPACK skill i recently picked - deploy only frigs with officers
these frigates literally have much better results than the WHOLE FLEET with them when deployed...

what happens with the whole fleet is that the frigates start doing absolutely retarded dances around the fight even if you fucking tell them to go full out
THEY FUCKING AVOID THE FIGHT (or cant find a place to get to enemy ships...)
hiding behind my fat slow ships who block firing lines and get raped by enemy fire
BUT
when the frigates are alone, SUDDENLY they go all full wolfpack and gangbang their big ships from close range
i didnt actually think my frigates even had the firepower to take down the enemy cruiser shields... and yet they did

 

[Rewrite]

Before going to sleep I quickly fought a fight to reach level 8 and get this skill that I wanted.
Its "Crew Training" and gives 15% combat readiness, which would allow some ships with officers 100% CR,

Which in turn is

BUT more importantly: "Crew training" applies to AI unmanned, without crews, automated ships! Lel, get it before its patched out.

 

[Rewrite]

You can only field 30 deploy.pts (DP) worth of AI ships before their CR drops into the ground.
And the fat blue cruiser is 25 alone... Its better to have 7 small AI frigates for 7*4 =28 DP. Or maybe 3 AI destroyers for 11*3=33 DP.

There is space to puzzle though:
There are 4 types of Remnant AI ships that I know.
4 DP - frigate that can phase around and is either be a missile boat or energy blasta (4 weapon hard points that can be either), its hard to kill because it can teleport 3 times and the combat AI can kinda use this ability to run away too
5 DP - frigate that can increase all its energy weap dmg by 50% often (with AI pilot skill "Systems" even more) and has a medium and 2 small energy hardpoints, can alone bully a 15 DP cruiser shields into the ground... dont think a 4 DP frig can do that alone
11 DP - destroyer, eh, havent looked at stats yet, havent captured one
25 DP - cruiser, 1 fighter bay, 2 medium ballistic, 1 large energy, lotsa shield flux

I wish I could send 8*4 frigs vs 3*11 destroyers in the SIM.
I think there is a mod that allows free form SIM fights.

 

[Joggerino]

The ordo fleets and especially the Radiant BB give me so much grief. My Paragon flagship gets completely annihilated in front of the Radiant. And all their destroyers and frigates are so fucking fast, tough and teleporting pains in the ass. My 4 lances on the paragon can't do shit to them. I also suspect their deployment points are completely unfair compared to the player. I will probably have to create an entirely new fleet, focused only on fighting ordos.

Spoiler

 

[oasis789]

 

[LizardWizard]

Well the game is definitely better but the last two years of updates are really just irrelevant balance shit (especially considering the the Dev is overhauling the skill tree yet again lol). This guy doesn't want to finish the actual game I'm convinced.

Modders have added in the content the game should have done 5 years ago. He should honestly just hire them and release the fucking game on Steam.

I'll admit the Ziggurat is fun, but it's just a souped up Doom really.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Starflight might be one of the first games I played with RT ship to ship overhead combat. Seems popular but sometimes I wonder what are the good/great tactical ship to ship combat games?

 

[Black Angel]

Perhaps there are mods to take care of this problems?

I personally don't mind the controls, would probably brute force to get experience, but if there's QoL-tier mods, that'd be great.

I've finally get to play this for a good while now, oh man this is a good shit. And yeah, the controls are actually fine. The only way for it to feel (((awful))) would be if you happen to pilot a weighty, bulky and low maneuverability ship like a Cruiser.

Still, it does feels like it has more or less the same gameplay loop with Mount & Blade and the likes, and yet it never gets old....at least, not yet. I've seen what people had to say about the game, and I have a feeling that I'm still some ways off before I get to that point.

Anyway, how does the game fares since Sseth's review? I'm playing on the code he gave away, so I couldn't get updates, much less mods.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

At least this is DRM and no steam. I just have to buy a license. It is $15 now.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Anyway, how does the game fares since Sseth's review? I'm playing on the code he gave away, so I couldn't get updates, much less mods.

The game has expanded a fair bit since then, colony gameplay has been expanded, more narrative stuff added, some cool features like fatepoints you can use to upgrade your ships etc.

This guy doesn't want to finish the actual game I'm convinced.

You might be right lol.

 

[Black Angel]

The game has expanded a fair bit since then, colony gameplay has been expanded, more narrative stuff added, some cool features like fatepoints you can use to upgrade your ships etc.

Man, I need to save up for real now. Ever since I got severely ill since literally the first week of 2021 and only finally back to near-full health condition in June/July (I still get fairly exhausted very quickly nowadays, but not as bad) I haven't gotten back to work until mid-October.

Anyway, I'm rereading the thread from since my post in 2019, and it seemed like the AI was incompetent back then? Especially when assigned to carriers. And yet, on the version that Sseth gave away (0.91a), I found the AI fairly competent for the most part, as per Sseth's review, including even in carriers. In fact, I got two AI-assigned carriers and they're the ones that mostly....carried my fleet through battles. And I haven't even fiddle around with the command points, except getting my piloted ship heavily escorted and getting my AI-assigned carriers escorted by every other ships not assigned to escort me.

 

[Perkel]

I am now in love/hate relationship with Starsector. I love game but:

1. Colony part of game is mistake. It trivializes game if you can earn first 3-4 mln as money you get back from it quickly get rolling.
2. Salvaging even after latest update is still way too overpowered trivializing most of other gameplay. You can get huge fleet just by following some conflict very easily. Repairing ships barely cost anything. In theory D-mods should be bad but they are just too weak of malus to matter. Moreover no one asks you where did you get empire carrier and why do you use it just like that when you can't buy it. Tri-tachyon doesn't care that you are flying their latest ships and so on. Latest patch added salvagers flying around but that is nothing since they are pretty slow. After battles it should be clear that salvage belongs to those sides of confict. Salvaging should be boon to repairing and finding unclaimed ships you find in space rather than mass salvaging aftter battle getting those destroyers and carriers and even then cost of repairing should be high.
3. Same with buying ships. At start sure getting some new ship is hard but later on buying ship is basically nothing as cost between highest and lowest kind of ship isn't that high. I don't understand why some frigate can cost say 20k but full on carrier just 200k. Getting beast ships doesn't feel like any achievement at all. Creating fleet with best ships.
4. Weaponry. Same here. Sure finding some of them is hard but buying them ? They cost basically nothing. Best kit carrier should be worth multiple times of base version.
5. Recently introduced rework of skills and fate points make game even worse. Fate points are just basically your way out of jail/great find card and you can stack them. At least previously getting into dangerous sectors had some stake in it. Now as long as you have fate points there isn't any. Skills themselves feel like they don't belong in game. Previously they at least gave you ability to pick and choose what you want creating "build" but now it basically forces you to follow only one path as the greatest reward are at highest tier of those skills. You have to take first skill to get last. Stuff like hyperspace traversal jump should be equipment for ships rather than skill so player could create stealthy fleet, nope you have armada and you can gravity well jump just because of skill. Stuff like better replacement should be crew training rather than officer skill. Officer could be limiting factor instead say officer gives max 100% replacement rate instead of 50% without officer.


As much as i love game i just don't find it good game in longer run because most of achievements feel worthless. It is a game comparable to warband but it doesn't feel "right". The "unknown" that are supposed to be menace are just a joke as i can fly in their sectors without any issue and almost always run away.

Mods only increase those problems. Colonies go wild, more better ships for cheap and so on.

Game is the most fun when you struggle at start because there are some goals you can follow. Those goals get way to quickly done. Getting your first carrier should be an achievement not o geez another one i have already 5 salvaged ones and i don't know what to do with them anymore.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Imo it's a LARP game, not a min-max mechanics game,- it's more fun that way.

 

[anvi]

What do you do when you become badass?

 

[HeatEXTEND]

LARP

 

[PorkaMorka]

Agree with Perkel, also the campaign layer has been getting more and more bloated over the last 2+ years of development. The core function of the campaign layer is to feed you fun and challenging fights and to provide some persistence to link together those fights. It has steadily moved away from that, adding more and more time wasting mini-games that get in your way when you are trying to have fights.

The 4x mechanics also undermine the theme of the game; you start out as a rag tag bunch of mercenaries or whatever, but quickly progress to owning several entire planets, just by looting space junk.

There have also been at least three versions of the skill tree and the current one seems more confusing and more cookie cutter than previous ones.

 

[Agesilaus]

Have they at least developed the storyline over the last year or two? They had the beginnings of something interesting last time I played, there was some alien factory world or something if memory serves.

 

[Sarathiour]

Have they at least developed the storyline over the last year or two? They had the beginnings of something interesting last time I played, there was some alien factory world or something if memory serves.

Yes, there is basically now a whole storyline to do, which give some very nice perk. Think the red planet mission, but better.

 

[Sarathiour]

The ordo fleets and especially the Radiant BB give me so much grief. My Paragon flagship gets completely annihilated in front of the Radiant. And all their destroyers and frigates are so fucking fast, tough and teleporting pains in the ass. My 4 lances on the paragon can't do shit to them. I also suspect their deployment points are completely unfair compared to the player. I will probably have to create an entirely new fleet, focused only on fighting ordos.

Spoiler

Remenant are supposed to serve as some kind of boss-challenging fleet, most of them got insane flux stat for their DP. Brilliant Radiant is the most obvious exemple of this, it cost the same DP as an onslaught, but got nearly thrice the flux vent rate, can freely teleport himself to prevent flanking and can still pack as much firepower as a paragon. It's completely broken, and god help you if you end against two of them in the same battle.

 

[Sarathiour]

I'm triple posting because I basically just finished seeing what was new to the game since the last time I picked it up, which was 2 years ago.

1. Colony part of game is mistake. It trivializes game if you can earn first 3-4 mln as money you get back from it quickly get rolling.

I don't think it's a mistake, it sure trivialize income, but once you got around 5 million, you're not really trying to earn more money, you probably already heave enough to build a competent enough fleet to win against 95% of the game encounter. It serve early as a money sink in mid-game, and is tied to point 2 and 3 in the late game.

I might as well explain what i qualify as early, mid and late game:
-Early game is when money is an issue. Easiest way out of it is still smuggling shit and taking advantage of vulnerable market, but you can also make decent amount by privateering for a faction for which you got a commission, and with the current update through various bar and contact mission.
-Mid game is when you got a decently sized fleet, and are thinking about exploring the outer system more seriously. You start alternating between that and still doing a bit of busy work for more funds, and start thinking about building up a colony
-Late game is when you got 2 or 3 size 6 colony and over half million income per month. At this point, it's mostly searching about the rare blueprint that you're missing, seeking out pre-collapse or [very redacted]

Spoiler

omega technology

and larping

The real cost of cruiser and capital ship is not the straight up cost, but the way to acquire it and the maintenance cost. Sure a onslaught is powerful, but is it really worth the hassle in fuel and supplies ? It also slow you down and is not really adapted to smuggling, so it also got a cost in opportunity.

4. Weaponry. Same here. Sure finding some of them is hard but buying them ? They cost basically nothing. Best kit carrier should be worth multiple times of base version.

Spoiler

There is a nice addition with the addition of [ very redacted ]

Spoiler

omega weaponry

that is extremely powerful and limited, idk if we're going to see more of those thing in the future

5. Recently introduced rework of skills and fate points make game even worse.

There is indeed a lot of problem tied to skill and fate point.
It's pretty clear that they wanted to give the player option to talk his way out of fight for a lot of mission, which is a decent idea. It's pretty nice being able to bullshit your way out of fight. Problem is, you a have to limit it to some degree. So what are the option :
RNG ? Why not, but it was not really the philosophy of the game so far. It's also obvious they're not big fan of savescumming.
Skill ? Probably a bad idea, way too niche compared to the main gameplay loop of the game
So the answer was story point. Now the problem is you have to be able to do something else with this ressource, otherwise it's a rather shallow "number of bullshit you can tell to people remaining", so they also give the opportunity to improve your ship or colony, or earn more money with it. The problem is that freely disengaging for just one story point is way too lenient, it also make the emergency repair option ridiculously useless.

Now for the skill system, I think part of the problem was how combat skill branch, which only impact your flagship, was coexisting with the other skills. The later one obvious scale way much in late game because they are impacting your whole fleet. So it got tweaked, and fleet-impacting skill now got diminishing return the more ship you got. I found this focus on balance quite funny, because ridiculous shit still got through, like Derelict Contingent

Spoiler

.
Any way, the skill system now tend to reward smaller fleet.
They made another change to reward smaller fleet, through the officier system now impacting the number of Deployment Point (DP). In older version, the maximum DP you got was a ratio taken from the maximum DP in settings, scaled to the difference in size of the two opposing fleet, with a maximum difference ratio of 3:2 ( so for 300 DP, 180 vs 120).
But now the number and level of officier is now taken into account for the DP distribution ratio, and is in fact the most important parameter. Most of the time, it does not change a lot of things, big enemy fleet also tend to have as much officer as your, if anything it generally favor the player, you're not as vastly outnumber as before if you somehow still manage to got ambushed by a huge fleet of pirate.

Except there is is a big problem with the system, because what happen if all the ships have an officier ? The middle and high alert remnant system are a nightmare because of that. The scaling of officier level is ridiculous : for example, I got 10 thousands man fleet with 9 capital ship, but I still count as vastly outnumbered if I fight against a fleet of 20 remnant whose total dp barely amount for a third of my own.
So you systematically going to end up against :
- A fleet that will outnumber you, as stated before
- Outspeedmost of your fleet becaue of phase jump gimmick
- Outflux you because they are just better all-around ship
-Outrange you because the a built-in ecm bonus, so you're going to end up with a flat -10% range whatever.

They're not impossible fight, i checked a bit around and most of the community solution was similar to mine for this fight : take a phase ship, pick anything smaller than a brilliant, or the brilliant themselves if you got the

Spoiler

Ziggy

and leaves the brilliant and radiant for the end of the fight, eventually by exhausting their CR depending on the power of your fleet. You could also use cheesy tactics, like falcon (P) with a shitload of sabot, or be the retard yourself and have 10 remnant frigate with an alpha core. You don't field them, they're just here for the extra DP.
The conclusion is that those fight tend to be way too repetitive and harder than they have any right to be, because it's just artificial difficulty.


It's not like they can't design good fight, the

Spoiler

[very redacted]

Spoiler

doritoes

was quite good.

 

[tindrli]

I JUST ENJOY THE DAMN THING. INSTALL BUNCH OF MODS, LIKE 40 of them. start. fiund my self a colony. develop it. and then go bounty and exploration collecting rare ships and rare stuff. it is repetitive but with all weapon loadouts its just too good. what i would like to see beside more story is more rewarding bounties than current 370.000 and one thing with simulator. currently in simulator all ships are visible available from start. i would like to change that you cant fight against ship in simulator that you didnt encounter while playing. beside that at the moment im having a blast