Starsector - RT 2D indie space goodness

[Perkel]

Fuck i got hard into game, at least until X4 expansion releases got it like 5-6 days ago...

Thoughts:

Playing currently with added factions and i do agree that they kind of brake mood of game. almost all new factions are high tech and look "cool" instead of fitting into game theme. I am playing currently with them but i think i will cull most of them and leave only fitting ones. Underworld will have to go for sure, splint of Tri-tachyon as pirates that runs with high tech ships ? Why no one nukes Tri-tachyon then because they support them ? Other factions don't respect black market and it is really easy just to find something go to one of those new factions and dump everything you want there.

I like how nerexin mod added some proper management to colonies like sending invasion fleet to pirate bases instead of going yourself. Imho Nerexin and Grand Sector are must have mods. Only issue i have is that so far all the time someone wanted to invade my sector i just paid bribe. It doesn't seem to be chance based but automatic out of jail card. Maybe it is something that will change when my faction will grow up...

New factions kind of make a mess out of grading. Instead of common, uncommon, legendary you get factions name for some fucking reason. If you add factions you also get additional mods and most of them are just badly designed crap that often is locked toward faction like imperial ones. Naturally this makes getting nice ones even harder.

I really would love for game to have more trading side of it. More industries and more products. It feels very basic and mostly automated. Especially with imports.

Game ship cost balance is a whack so is salvaging. Small shuttle cost almost as much as frigate, and difference between shuttle and capital ship often is like 20-30times. It makes it very very very very easy to get capital ships almost out of the gate when you start. Especially salvaging is completely broken. You can very easily rack up litereally dozens of capital ships quickly. Outfitting them is bigger issue but it doesn't really matter as no D-modded capital ship will be worse than fully working destroyer. In current game i didn't even earn 600k and i have already 5 battleships, 2 capital carriers and slew of destroyers and frigates sitting in my colony to be activated when attack on colony will happen. Speaking of which...

Cost of maintance and repair is also out of whack like i said before but there is bigger issue. If you do it at dock it is instant. So what can you do with that information ? Just take 20 capital ships and mothball them, stack up on some supply crates and people. When attack happens and they start to pommel your starbase just take mothballed capital ships, put crew to work and hit that "repair all" button. Instantly you have ready to go death flotilla, you go to battle in split second win the fight and then put them all back to your base.... CR shouldn't be able to be "repaired" in docks. Docks shouls only repair hulls.

I really love exploration aspect of this game. Flying into new star system, going dark, firing up detectors etc. Same with impulse to stop engines etc. It is really fucking amazing how well it works.

Imho skill system should be completely reworked. It just doesn't really fit game at least in form it is. Imho much better would be to get skills for doing stuff rather than choosing what you want. For an example right now i just salvage stuff and mine and i can put skills into colony management or combat or what i want... Imho much better way would be to get % points as you do something. Like when you mine stuff first it is very dangerous for amateurs and as you go you get better at it, less heavy hardware and crew lost more loot gained and after a while you get chance to get some perk like "treasure finder" that gives you 30% boost to get extra loot from derelicts, stations etc.

Ships mods. Love them. But i think there should be actual price tag attached to installing them not just points alone. Installing legendary mod should be also hefty sum attached to it so you wouldn't do that willy nilly and save it for best ships you have.

Naturally guns prices should be up a lot and cost as much as ship itself combined if not more. I really loved how in X3 if you bought yourself capitalship for those 250mln for which you worked hard 100s of hours it was still just hunk of garbage until you fit it with weapons and getting best weapons would cost you even more than ship itself. Here there are mods and weapons so chasing bast configuration with latest and best tech should be something that would take normal price of destroyer to 10 times as much if not more. In this way chasing that top of the line stuff is huge money sink and gives a you a lot of things to do and work toward.

Love the game hope it will improve.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

WAIT THE NEW PATCH IS OUohwait never mind

 

[Perkel]

So i was looking for lore friendly mods. And all of "lore friendly" mods start with. Faction X barely survived but now they have pre collapse tech and everyone wants it. Worse all of the factions are just excuse for ship packs rather than providing some game-play change to them. Even worse is that they want "balanced" factions meaning they are as powerful as rest of factions if not more.

 

[Perkel]

I will be looking into Archeon order megamod now, seems like it more interesting take on starsector mods.

edit:

It doesn't have support for nerexin... ehh.

 

[Damned Registrations]

New factions kind of make a mess out of grading. Instead of common, uncommon, legendary you get factions name for some fucking reason. If you add factions you also get additional mods and most of them are just badly designed crap that often is locked toward faction like imperial ones. Naturally this makes getting nice ones even harder.

What's this about rarity of mod types? Is that a mod or some new feature? It wasn't in the game when I played.

A lot of the faction mods are locked to their faction for balance reasons. Otherwise you could slap together range increasing mods from 5 different factions and laser a battlestation to death before it can fire at you. On that note, the recurring champions of the faction mod tournaments are... the vanilla pirates. Because they're dirt fucking cheap. Though to be fair that's a weird scenario since it doesn't take into account player skill or high end officers and such. Anyways I like the faction mods for tweaking the gameplay more than anything else. Having weird regenerating hull but no shields, really powerful and fast but narrow shields, or being dedicated to manual flux venting instead of the passive kind makes things interesting. All the vanilla ships feel too samey to me. There's really very little difference between a low and high tech ship with a bunch of forward gun mounts. Generally it's just shield efficiency vs armor and cost.

Are you playing with that mod that adds unique bounties? It's another of my favourites, adds some cool ships that are pretty nasty fights for their level as well as bounties on things besides pirates. If you're looking for a challenge it's high level bounties and the REDACTED in the outer areas that you'll find it in. I think defending a colony (especially from pirates, who are a shit tier faction on purpose) is meant to be pretty easy due to logistics. Being able to refuel and rearm at a starbase instead of hostile space ought to be a massive advantage.

If you're into the game I recommend reading the dev blog- it's the only one I've ever seen that is actually a good read and is reliably updated when major changes are happening. Here's one about revamping the skill system: http://fractalsoftworks.com/2019/07/08/skills-and-story-points/#more-4358

 

[Perkel]

whoa

Impact
Story points are perhaps the biggest mechanical addition of the skill overhaul. One of the things I like is that they can encourage the player to think about the game in terms of creating their own story by selecting the “exceptional” things they do.

so the immershiun guy. Not too hot about those changes. They go into exactly opposite way i wanted. I feel like dude needs his levels or something and can't think past them. Especially those story points is dumb. Obviously people will be hoarding to get streaks of win instead of using them instantly. His idea to introduce bonus experience also is dumb.

I would love to see rather system where there is some randomness in it. Like you do black market trading a lot and there is a chance you will get :

Drunkard perk:
"All those black market deals rarely leaved you out sober and you started to drink A LOT"
-10% to CP
+10% to selling price in black market

 

[Harthwain]

whoa

Impact
Story points are perhaps the biggest mechanical addition of the skill overhaul. One of the things I like is that they can encourage the player to think about the game in terms of creating their own story by selecting the “exceptional” things they do.

so the immershiun guy. Not too hot about those changes. They go into exactly opposite way i wanted. I feel like dude needs his levels or something and can't think past them. Especially those story points is dumb. Obviously people will be hoarding to get streaks of win instead of using them instantly. His idea to introduce bonus experience also is dumb.

I like the idea behind the Story Points. It works like a currency that you can spend for a wide variety of "special actions". I fail to see how getting some random traits at random is better than the proposed system.

 

[Perkel]

whoa

Impact
Story points are perhaps the biggest mechanical addition of the skill overhaul. One of the things I like is that they can encourage the player to think about the game in terms of creating their own story by selecting the “exceptional” things they do.

so the immershiun guy. Not too hot about those changes. They go into exactly opposite way i wanted. I feel like dude needs his levels or something and can't think past them. Especially those story points is dumb. Obviously people will be hoarding to get streaks of win instead of using them instantly. His idea to introduce bonus experience also is dumb.

I like the idea behind the Story Points. It works like a currency that you can spend for a wide variety of "special actions". I fail to see how getting some random traits at random is better than the proposed system.

Because one is something you have to live with mitigate or be happy about while other one is resource you will hoard and only use when you are sure to win.

Example: I stock up on on SP take my fleet and fuck up Hegemony HQ and every fleet trying to get me on way there or out i just use points to disengage. Stock up enough of those points and you will be able to do that for several sectors effectively completely crippling faction.

It is kind of like CK2. You should have some power over skills you get but also there should be dice roll that you get shafted or things will go completely south.

 

[hello friend]

Give these mods a go for some more low tech flavour and ships that aren't too powerful (in fact, a lot of them are quite bad):

Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla
Luddic Enhancement Mod
Junk Pirates 3.4.0 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.)

The exception might be the Luddic Path Lashers, which are my favourite Lasher variant and surprisingly good. I tend to disable ASP & P.A.C.K in Nexerelin settings, although sometimes I don't. Junk Pirates, in particular, add some nice flavour to the pirate presence in the galaxy.

 

[Harthwain]

Because one is something you have to live with mitigate or be happy about while other one is resource you will hoard and only use when you are sure to win.

If by spending SPs you get SPs back, then you have the incentive to use them, since they will trickle back to you anyway through bonus experience. I could see having some SPs in reserve for special occasions, but not hoarding them, since the hoarded points are basically "dead".

Example: I stock up on on SP take my fleet and fuck up Hegemony HQ and every fleet trying to get me on way there or out i just use points to disengage. Stock up enough of those points and you will be able to do that for several sectors effectively completely crippling faction.

Can you get to the HQ when you're disengaging? It was a long time since I played the game, so I am not up-to-date. Besides, it sounds like a balance problem than a design problem.

 

[Perkel]

I spend some more time with it. If you pilot your own ship it is really great stuff. But top down map just sucks as hell. Once you get 20-30 ships the icons just mash together completely and you can't even see what ship is what. Especially since map icons don't adjust to map size so if you zoom in map you just get bigger icons of ships.

Carriers seems to be really weird. I would assume that carrier whole point is to deliver hell over long distance. But whatever i use light or capital ship carrier they all seem to be very weak and have issues even killing one frigate with 2-3 vulcans or PDs.

On other hand i noticed that when i defended my new colony from pirates invasions (is style of mothballing everything and then wait for attack then unmothball) 3-4 carriers instead worked as line of defense that AI couldn't cross as ships focused on attacking those small fighters rather than going after my fleet. Not only frigates but also destroyers and cruisers were acting like fighters are the biggest menace instead of going straight into my carrier group. I mean sure those fighters can't do shit against even frigates let alone destroyers or bigger but this effectively created wall which was impenetrable and i could then focus on raining death from my rocket cruiser with long range missiles.

Tried also few bombers but they weren't doing thing i expected them to do aka actually doing some damage. I feel like i would have to get few carriers focused only on bombers to do some damage but then bombers would be easily picked up by PDs.

My other gripe with carriers is how little actual fighters bays there are and how very limited wings are. I can understand that light carrier could send 1-2 wings but capital ship carriers should have more than 5 bays. Even 10 would be imho not that much. From my experience proper battleship can just punch through line of defense of AI and rain death. Capital ship carrier feels like destroyer at best.

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Missile focused ships. I started to love them. Especially missile cruser i got lately. Mostly because they seem to mash well with carriers fighter wings which provide cover and something to do for enemy PD's while Pilums and other heavy rockets maul them from affar.

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Colonies, they have more depth than i assumed. Hazard factor is really nice mechanic that can make out of barren planet really nice place for your HQ. Stability is the other one that i like. It is really nice mechanic that can go down or up in various ways which affects how much you actually get from your colony. Growth factor is also really nice mechanic based of several factors. So in the end when you start making colonies it is not just finding planet with best resources but combining several aspects of what you are trying to achieve and what you need. System with 1 very rich planet with mild climate looks very juicy but lack of other shittier planets means it will be harder to defend and you will have only one colony and defense instead of 2-3. On other hand system with many shitty planets can lead to really powerful HQ but with high unkeep cost.

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I really wish that space would be bigger. When you get your first tanker which costs nothing basically you can fly anywhere you like. This makes attacking any point easy as fleets don't move between systems but directly which means you can't establish line of defense or defensive sectors or move your fleets strategically you are basically responding rather than planning.

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I already said it but i fucking love sensor mechanics. It really gives a way to create fleet that is stealthy and use it to your advantage.

 

[tindrli]

i tried with bigger sector and i didn't like it. with IBB bounties and other stuff especially the ones that are always on the edge of the map. so i downloaded Adjusted sector mod. in my opinion its better than grand sector but that's not important. after a long discussion managed to make my sector something like this

same sector size just more stars. and with 50 mods more less im having a blast!!!!! i even adapted my self to live and ejoy with disbalanced ships. its a space and A lot of Factions. some obviously better than others and there is me in the middle. Great Game i must say worth every dollar and more

 

[panda]

Carriers seems to be really weird. I would assume that carrier whole point is to deliver hell over long distance. But whatever i use light or capital ship carrier they all seem to be very weak and have issues even killing one frigate with 2-3 vulcans or PDs.

On other hand i noticed that when i defended my new colony from pirates invasions (is style of mothballing everything and then wait for attack then unmothball) 3-4 carriers instead worked as line of defense that AI couldn't cross as ships focused on attacking those small fighters rather than going after my fleet. Not only frigates but also destroyers and cruisers were acting like fighters are the biggest menace instead of going straight into my carrier group. I mean sure those fighters can't do shit against even frigates let alone destroyers or bigger but this effectively created wall which was impenetrable and i could then focus on raining death from my rocket cruiser with long range missiles.

Carriers combat output obviously greatly depends on fighters setup, but also on CV's special ability AND synergy of both.
E.g. longbows are very good bombers, but on Astral they achieve almost god tier efficiency making full strike(meaning six bombers) Astral capable to evaporate almost anything below "heavy cruiser" every 20-30 seconds(if targets are close ofc) with near zero loses and making Astral a ship in a league of its own.
There are several such combinations in the game and... figuring out which ones work best is part of the fun i guess, so i'll stop here.

But craft models also matter a lot. Some are just trash, some are very situational, so maybe it was the case.

Tried also few bombers but they weren't doing thing i expected them to do aka actually doing some damage. I feel like i would have to get few carriers focused only on bombers to do some damage but then bombers would be easily picked up by PDs.

"Fighters", "bombers", "interceprors" aren't just random labels but also good indicator of AI behavior.
Full bombers setup will drop payload from max range and run back ASAP, while full interceptors setup will attack target at close range till the end. Usually till the bitter end because interceptors shoud intercept enemy bombers and usually can't do shit to big ships (but there are exceptions).
Fighters/bombers will work together. Fighters will cover from enemy small craft and/or engage target first for a short time(and use decoy flares if any to overhelm PD), while bombers are doing their thing. After bomb drop they'll also disengage all together.

My other gripe with carriers is how little actual fighters bays there are and how very limited wings are. I can understand that light carrier could send 1-2 wings but capital ship carriers should have more than 5 bays. Even 10 would be imho not that much. From my experience proper battleship can just punch through line of defense of AI and rain death. Capital ship carrier feels like destroyer at best.

Usually capitals has some sort of gimmick which you should abuse for max efficiency. E.g. initially i thought that pirate Castella is comlete trash, but one day i tried it with full shield shredding(and some ion) weapons + 3 shield shredding(and some ion) fighters/1 heavy bomber + short range torpedoes in front slots... and it worked wonders.
Though carrier constantly charging into point blank range is probably not something you'd except to work at all.

Overall i'd say this game has one of the best carriers implementation i've ever seen.

• You can fit the base to perform any role from full strike to full escort,
• and while is not strictly mandatory to have carriers at all(!), it is all possible to have any(!) number of carriers in a fleet. Up to full CV fleet

Which together leads to insane flexibility and variability of CV gameplay.

 

[Perkel]

Ok i change my view on some things.

Vanilla has issues with faction management (and is obviously WIP as orders tab doesn't work) but Nerexin adds a lot of really nice things.

- Ability to request fleet to attack someone or something. Getting annoyed by pirates ? How about sending system fleet there and dealing with base ? Just go to special options and "request fleet" it can be done anywhere where is civilized at any station not just your planet.
- Too many colonies ? To much stability issues because you are outside of your colony and admin limits ? No problem. Grant independence. Colony will be still your faction and will work like AI building things etc and it will remove its point from your cap. Downside is that it will give you only 20% of income and its heavy industry will not benefit your shipyards. Seems like really neat way to actually make empire instead of just few colonies.
- Nerexin can remove any faction. So if you want to play with shitload of modded factions that don't mash well with vanilla factions just remove base ones and have only modded ones. Nerexin gives ability to completely change game from starsector vanilla into Star Wars or Star Trek total overhaul.
- Mining. You can get few shepards or install mining lasers that will give you an ability to play as miner.

I think i will do huge modded faction playtrough later where only modded factions will exist.

Grant independence and fleet request effectively make this proper good X3 alternative. I would hope though there would be some mod that would add extra items for trade.

 

[tindrli]

I would hope though there would be some mod that would add extra items for trade.

try this one
https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=17067.0
its not much..
also this one
http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=13236.0
it adds this items

 

[razvedchiki]

is it advisible to start with a trade fleet?(playing with nexerelin mod)

 

[Damned Registrations]

is it advisible to start with a trade fleet?(playing with nexerelin mod)

I'd say the only important thing when starting is to pick whatever appeals to you most, whether it's searching for ruins and derelicts, trading, joining a war, smuggling, whatever. If you want to fight shit, no point waiting until you're rich to do it, then you'll miss out on a bunch of early game situations and things to get excited over. But if trading's your thing that's got early game stuff too, like taking loans and fretting over how much to risk at once and evading even small pirates and stuff.

 

[rashiakas]

 

[razvedchiki]

i restarted some times trying out fighter/explorer/trader starts and finally settled in a trader start.
got lucky this time and im taking 2-3 100k transport missions per month, also made good bucks from trading stuff to needy planets (once i got 3 80-100k precurement missions in the same star system).

 

[razvedchiki]

what are some good broadside ballistic cruisers?

 

[AgentFransis]

Can't think of any. Barely any broadside in the game at all, basically just the Conquest in vanilla. O.R.A is a broadside focused mod but it's high tech. A few broadside capable ships here and there but generally capitals.

Flying a broadside ship is a pain in the ass with the game's control scheme.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Yeah if you want to do broadsides the ORA mod is where it's at. Broadsides are usually a questionable choice though, with forward facing shields being stronger and engine damage being pretty fatal. Not to mention exposing too much profile as a target. It's doable but you need a pretty specialized ship. Some of the lower tech factions have a lot of asymmetrical ships too, one of those might fit the bill.

 

[panda]

high sanity loss warning

Also Phoca from Tahlan Shipworks mod. Not 100% broadside cruiser though, she can bring all guns on target while staying reasonably angled. Phoca is sort of glass cannon and will explode without good captain very fast, but she brings hilarious amount of firepower for her cost.

 

[razvedchiki]

it may be that this games combat is not my cup of tea, i thought i could use my slumbering capitals exchanging broadsides with the enemy but this is more of a dancing simulator.
commanding the rest of my fleet is like herding cats.

 

[panda]

it may be that this games combat is not my cup of tea, i thought i could use my slumbering capitals exchanging broadsides with the enemy but this is more of a dancing simulator.
commanding the rest of my fleet is like herding cats.

Well, late game has more of that.
Idk if this is exactly what you wish for, but e.g. here are capitals in action