Excidium
P. banal
But the goldbox games are 1st edition.
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Gold Box SSI's Gold Box Series Thread
- Thread starter Saxon1974
- Start date
I just played an old FRUA module called Paladin1: The Restoration of Gundahab. Excellent module with a strong Pools of Radiance vibe, made by Rhys Hess, who (unless there's another Rhys Hess) later would write novels based on Planescape: Torment and the Baldur's Gate games. Anyone read them? Are they worth reading?
New FRUA modules are still being made, 20 years after FRUA was released. Even some of the very early ones, like the above mentioned one, are excellent stuff, and well worth playing IMO.
Too bad I already cast my vote before FRUA was added to the poll, and even before I noticed I could vote for multiple games...
New FRUA modules are still being made, 20 years after FRUA was released. Even some of the very early ones, like the above mentioned one, are excellent stuff, and well worth playing IMO.
Too bad I already cast my vote before FRUA was added to the poll, and even before I noticed I could vote for multiple games...
Excidium
P. banal
What are the best FRUA modules based on real D&D modules?
I haven't played any of those yet, but Ray Dyer's Realms series with dozens of converted pen and paper modules are very highly regarded. Check out Jaesun's thread about them.
eric__s
ass hater
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- Jun 13, 2011
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Is that so? I don't know much about the history of D&D, I thought first edition D&D was where Elves and Dwarves and Hobbits were their own classes. The only game I'm aware of that does this is Stronghold.
Stronghold was regular D&D. Gold Box games are AD&D.
eric__s
ass hater
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Oh. In that case, what are the core differences between AD&D editions 1 and 2? Were the Dark Sun games first or second edition?
Excidium
P. banal
That would be Basic Dungeons & Dragons line of products. They first version was released at the same time as AD&D in 1977 as a sort of starter set to the game, with a revision in 1980 commonly called B/X and second and probably the most popular revision commonly called BECMI that had that red box with Elmore art in the cover, and a final one in 1990 called Rules Cyclopedia. With 3rd edition they stopped publishing it and dropped the basic/advanced denomination altogether.
Dark Sun games were 2nd edition. 2nd edition was released the same year as Pool of Radiance, rather unfortunate that they had to use 1st edition.
There's little difference between the two editions, it's mostly a rules revision. Much better combat/spellcasting rules and book formatting though.
A lot of the lore changed between 1st and 2nd edition as TSR post-Gygax tried to make their game family friendly, such as the changing of demon and devils to tanarii and something else.
Here's what the early edition grognard's from Dragonsfoot (DnD's RPGCodex equivalent) have to say: http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7116&p=107973
1. Ability score tables now list scores from 1 to 25 in the PHB.
2. Ability score functions changed slightly, such as weight
allowance for scores less than 10 and % chance to learn spells for scores from 10 to 16.
3. Ability scores of 5 or lower no longer limits class selection.
4. Open doors changed from a d6 to a d20.
5. Intelligence no longer affects the minimum number of spells per level for magic-users.
6. Maximum spells per level has been reduced to an optional rule.
7. Loyalty and NPC reaction changed from d% to d20.
8. Half-orcs removed.
9. Racial level limits increased and no longer based on ability scores.
10. Slow unlimited advancement for demi-humans is an optional rule.
11. Gnomes now receive ability score adjustments.
12. Racial ability minimum and maximums changed.
13. Demi-humans no longer begin knowing several languages.
14. Additional languages for demi-humans no longer limited by race.
15. Life expectancy of most demi-humans greatly reduced.
16. Dwarves now have a 20% chance for all magic items not specifically suited to their class to fail instead of a 20% chance of failure for rings only.
17. Dwarves’ underground skills have slightly different probabilites.
18. The resurrection spell now affects elves, and raise dead may affect elves at the DM’s option.
19. Gnomes now have a 20% chance for all magic items except weapons, armor, shields, illusionist items, and thief items to fail.
20. Gnomes’ underground skills have slightly different probabilities.
21. Halflings now receive a +1 to their attack rolls when using thrown weapons or slings.
22. Halflings no longer have the 20% chance for magic rings to fail when they use them.
23. Experience point requirements for classes changed, most notable is the paladin.
24. Weapons and armor permissible to some classes changed slightly.
25. Class prime requisite ability scores changed.
26. Classes were divided into four main groups (warrior, priest, wizard, rogue), no sub-classes exist.
27. Class titles removed.
28. Assassin, barbarian, cavalier, and monk classes were removed.
29. Bard and ranger classes changed entirely.
30. Fighters no longer make a number of attacks equal to their level when fighting enemies with less than one hit die.
31. Weapon specialization changed for bows.
32. The monthly income for establishing a stronghold was removed.
33. Paladins now receive four weapons proficiencies at 1st level (and gain one every 3 levels instead of every 2 levels as in the UA).
34. Magic-users now called mages.
35. Mages, illusionists, and other specialist wizards share
the same experience, hit die, and spell progression tables.
36. Mages now receive hit dice up to level 10 instead of level 11.
37. Mages no longer have the ability to construct strongholds.
38. Illusionists no longer are a separate class, but are now specialist wizards.
39. Illusionists no longer have their own spell list.
40. Cleric turn undead table changed and included in the PHB instead of the DMG.
41. Druids are no longer a separate class, but are now priests of a specific mythos.
42. Druids no longer have their own spell list.
43. Druids no longer have a class level limit.
44. Thieves now allocate a number of percentage points to each skill at 1st level and with each additional level increase to their various skills instead of having each skill increase by
the same amount for all thieves.
45. The pick pockets skill functions differently.
46. The open locks skill functions differently.
47. Thieves can now remain hidden in the shadows while making very small, slow movements; and a hidden thief is equally hidden from creatures with or without infravision.
48. Multi-class combinations allowed changed slightly.
49. Half-elven multi-classed clerics no longer require a minimum wisdom of 13.
50. Multi-classed wizards cannot cast spells while wearing armor.
51. Multi-classed priests are still restricted to priest weapons.
52. Dual-classed characters may now have up to four classes.
53. Dual-classed characters may only select one class from
each class group.
54. Alignment definitions changed.
55. A change in alignment now doubles the amount of experience needed to reach the next level instead of causing a loss of a level.
56. Additional weapon proficiencies for level advancement now start counting from 1st level instead of including 1st level.
57. Non-weapon proficiencies*.
58. Silver pieces are now 1/10th of a gold.
59. Starting funds for a mage is now 1d4 + 1 instead of 2d4.
60. Priests may not retain any starting funds after purchasing initial equipment.
61. Prices for various items, including weapons and armor changed.
62. Some new items added.
63. Field plate and full plate no longer reduce damage.
64. Weapon vs. AC type replaced with weapon type vs. armor and made optional.
65. Missile weapon range now given in tens of yards for all situations.
66. Encumbrance now calculated off of actual weight and does not include bulk.
67. Spell components made optional.
68. Spell lists were changed, all wizards now use the same
spell list. Priest spells are divided into spheres and clerics
and druids use the same list.
69. Some individual spells have changed.
70. Awarding experience points changed.
71. Training reduced to an optional rule.
72. A natural roll of 20 is always a hit, regardless of the AC of the target.
73. THAC0 for thieves and magic-users changed and is unlimited in progression.
74. Segments are removed from the combat round.
75. Initiative is changed.
76. Group initiative and individual initiative optional rules.
77. Characters and creatures with multiple attacks do not automatically attack first in the round.
78. Weapon speed now affects initiative as an optional rule.
79. Two weapon fighting is only available to warriors and rogues.
80. Non-lethal combat rules changed.
81. Parrying rules changed and reduced to optional.
82. Some saving throws now have a priority over others.
83. Magic resistance no longer affected by caster level.
84. Not all monster poisons are lethal anymore.
85. Characters now gain 3 h.p. per day of bed rest instead of 1.
86. Characters can now die if they suffer 50 points of damage
from one attack, regardless of their hit point total, if they
fail to make a save vs. death.
87. Surprise changed, uses a d10 and represents one full round
of surprise instead of a variable number of segments. Spells
cannot be cast during the surprise round.
88. Surprised characters lose their dexterity bonus to AC,
they are assumed to be totally non-reactant.
89. Henchmen are now special NPCs that the DM introduces into
the group and are friends and allies but not employees of PCs.
There is no restrictions on the level of a henchmen acquired.
90. The illumination radius of torches, magic weapons, and
other items is reduced.
81. Halflings’ base movement changed from 9" to 6.
82. Jogging and running optional rules added.
83. All characters have a 40% chance to climb walls.
94. Climbing modifiers changed.
These changes are listed in the 2nd edition PHB, even more
changes can be found in the DMG. Also, many monsters have
changed, especially with regard to THAC0, dragons are
completely different. "
Here's what the early edition grognard's from Dragonsfoot (DnD's RPGCodex equivalent) have to say: http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7116&p=107973
1. Ability score tables now list scores from 1 to 25 in the PHB.
2. Ability score functions changed slightly, such as weight
allowance for scores less than 10 and % chance to learn spells for scores from 10 to 16.
3. Ability scores of 5 or lower no longer limits class selection.
4. Open doors changed from a d6 to a d20.
5. Intelligence no longer affects the minimum number of spells per level for magic-users.
6. Maximum spells per level has been reduced to an optional rule.
7. Loyalty and NPC reaction changed from d% to d20.
8. Half-orcs removed.
9. Racial level limits increased and no longer based on ability scores.
10. Slow unlimited advancement for demi-humans is an optional rule.
11. Gnomes now receive ability score adjustments.
12. Racial ability minimum and maximums changed.
13. Demi-humans no longer begin knowing several languages.
14. Additional languages for demi-humans no longer limited by race.
15. Life expectancy of most demi-humans greatly reduced.
16. Dwarves now have a 20% chance for all magic items not specifically suited to their class to fail instead of a 20% chance of failure for rings only.
17. Dwarves’ underground skills have slightly different probabilites.
18. The resurrection spell now affects elves, and raise dead may affect elves at the DM’s option.
19. Gnomes now have a 20% chance for all magic items except weapons, armor, shields, illusionist items, and thief items to fail.
20. Gnomes’ underground skills have slightly different probabilities.
21. Halflings now receive a +1 to their attack rolls when using thrown weapons or slings.
22. Halflings no longer have the 20% chance for magic rings to fail when they use them.
23. Experience point requirements for classes changed, most notable is the paladin.
24. Weapons and armor permissible to some classes changed slightly.
25. Class prime requisite ability scores changed.
26. Classes were divided into four main groups (warrior, priest, wizard, rogue), no sub-classes exist.
27. Class titles removed.
28. Assassin, barbarian, cavalier, and monk classes were removed.
29. Bard and ranger classes changed entirely.
30. Fighters no longer make a number of attacks equal to their level when fighting enemies with less than one hit die.
31. Weapon specialization changed for bows.
32. The monthly income for establishing a stronghold was removed.
33. Paladins now receive four weapons proficiencies at 1st level (and gain one every 3 levels instead of every 2 levels as in the UA).
34. Magic-users now called mages.
35. Mages, illusionists, and other specialist wizards share
the same experience, hit die, and spell progression tables.
36. Mages now receive hit dice up to level 10 instead of level 11.
37. Mages no longer have the ability to construct strongholds.
38. Illusionists no longer are a separate class, but are now specialist wizards.
39. Illusionists no longer have their own spell list.
40. Cleric turn undead table changed and included in the PHB instead of the DMG.
41. Druids are no longer a separate class, but are now priests of a specific mythos.
42. Druids no longer have their own spell list.
43. Druids no longer have a class level limit.
44. Thieves now allocate a number of percentage points to each skill at 1st level and with each additional level increase to their various skills instead of having each skill increase by
the same amount for all thieves.
45. The pick pockets skill functions differently.
46. The open locks skill functions differently.
47. Thieves can now remain hidden in the shadows while making very small, slow movements; and a hidden thief is equally hidden from creatures with or without infravision.
48. Multi-class combinations allowed changed slightly.
49. Half-elven multi-classed clerics no longer require a minimum wisdom of 13.
50. Multi-classed wizards cannot cast spells while wearing armor.
51. Multi-classed priests are still restricted to priest weapons.
52. Dual-classed characters may now have up to four classes.
53. Dual-classed characters may only select one class from
each class group.
54. Alignment definitions changed.
55. A change in alignment now doubles the amount of experience needed to reach the next level instead of causing a loss of a level.
56. Additional weapon proficiencies for level advancement now start counting from 1st level instead of including 1st level.
57. Non-weapon proficiencies*.
58. Silver pieces are now 1/10th of a gold.
59. Starting funds for a mage is now 1d4 + 1 instead of 2d4.
60. Priests may not retain any starting funds after purchasing initial equipment.
61. Prices for various items, including weapons and armor changed.
62. Some new items added.
63. Field plate and full plate no longer reduce damage.
64. Weapon vs. AC type replaced with weapon type vs. armor and made optional.
65. Missile weapon range now given in tens of yards for all situations.
66. Encumbrance now calculated off of actual weight and does not include bulk.
67. Spell components made optional.
68. Spell lists were changed, all wizards now use the same
spell list. Priest spells are divided into spheres and clerics
and druids use the same list.
69. Some individual spells have changed.
70. Awarding experience points changed.
71. Training reduced to an optional rule.
72. A natural roll of 20 is always a hit, regardless of the AC of the target.
73. THAC0 for thieves and magic-users changed and is unlimited in progression.
74. Segments are removed from the combat round.
75. Initiative is changed.
76. Group initiative and individual initiative optional rules.
77. Characters and creatures with multiple attacks do not automatically attack first in the round.
78. Weapon speed now affects initiative as an optional rule.
79. Two weapon fighting is only available to warriors and rogues.
80. Non-lethal combat rules changed.
81. Parrying rules changed and reduced to optional.
82. Some saving throws now have a priority over others.
83. Magic resistance no longer affected by caster level.
84. Not all monster poisons are lethal anymore.
85. Characters now gain 3 h.p. per day of bed rest instead of 1.
86. Characters can now die if they suffer 50 points of damage
from one attack, regardless of their hit point total, if they
fail to make a save vs. death.
87. Surprise changed, uses a d10 and represents one full round
of surprise instead of a variable number of segments. Spells
cannot be cast during the surprise round.
88. Surprised characters lose their dexterity bonus to AC,
they are assumed to be totally non-reactant.
89. Henchmen are now special NPCs that the DM introduces into
the group and are friends and allies but not employees of PCs.
There is no restrictions on the level of a henchmen acquired.
90. The illumination radius of torches, magic weapons, and
other items is reduced.
81. Halflings’ base movement changed from 9" to 6.
82. Jogging and running optional rules added.
83. All characters have a 40% chance to climb walls.
94. Climbing modifiers changed.
These changes are listed in the 2nd edition PHB, even more
changes can be found in the DMG. Also, many monsters have
changed, especially with regard to THAC0, dragons are
completely different. "
Multi-headed Cow
Guest
http://www.mobygames.com/game/turbo-grafx/order-of-the-griffon Also is D&D (Not AD&D) and has non-humans as their own classes. Just a drive-by commenting since I never really played the Gold Box games, just happened to glance at the thread. 
eric__s
ass hater
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2011
- Messages
- 2,301
Oh, very cool. Thanks for clearing that up everyone. So AD&D 1 to AD&D 2 was rebalancing the system. I guess I thought each edition was a complete overhaul like it is now.
Also yeah, I just remembered Warriors of the Eternal Sun is D&D too.
Also yeah, I just remembered Warriors of the Eternal Sun is D&D too.
I'm a huge BECMI fan because it was the easiest game to handle as a Dungeon Master, though most of my player's preferred 1st and 2nd edition before 3rd edition came and did a complete overhaul. I'll referee one of those old D&D modules in a heartbeat. Character creation and combat resolution both go much faster than they do in AD&D and the later editions, leaving more time for exploration and encounters with the weird.
I really like the pacing and monster variation in Pools of Darkness, as well as the graphical upgrade. I haven't gotten to the end yet, but I think I might like it more than Pool of Radiance, as hard as that is to believe. Right now Pools of Darkness and Pool of Radiance are vying for the top spot, followed by Curse of the Azure Bonds. The pond scum that is Secret of the Silver Blades pools up the rear, but I have yet to try out the other games. I hear the two Savage Frontier games aren't all that great, so Secret of the Silver Blades might beat out those two. We'll see. So I'll finish this up, then Savage Frontier, then the Buck Rogers games, then the Krynn series.
Of course I'll always be going back to FRUA when I want to play those old original D&D modules again. Have some catching up to do, first. I doubt I'll finish all the ones I want to play before Dungeon Craft comes out.
I really like the pacing and monster variation in Pools of Darkness, as well as the graphical upgrade. I haven't gotten to the end yet, but I think I might like it more than Pool of Radiance, as hard as that is to believe. Right now Pools of Darkness and Pool of Radiance are vying for the top spot, followed by Curse of the Azure Bonds. The pond scum that is Secret of the Silver Blades pools up the rear, but I have yet to try out the other games. I hear the two Savage Frontier games aren't all that great, so Secret of the Silver Blades might beat out those two. We'll see. So I'll finish this up, then Savage Frontier, then the Buck Rogers games, then the Krynn series.
Of course I'll always be going back to FRUA when I want to play those old original D&D modules again. Have some catching up to do, first. I doubt I'll finish all the ones I want to play before Dungeon Craft comes out.
Excidium
P. banal
Count me in if you ever run something online.
GarfunkeL
Racism Expert
Me too.
elodman
Novice
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2012
- Messages
- 30
ave
PoR scales number of enemies to party member number and abilities. (manual/clue book info)
Thus is hiring NPCs in the long-term beneficial at all (in the city council e.g. Hero, ...)?
They drain loot - hopefully only money, and not magic items.
Perhaps they drain exp, too?
PoR scales number of enemies to party member number and abilities. (manual/clue book info)
Thus is hiring NPCs in the long-term beneficial at all (in the city council e.g. Hero, ...)?
They drain loot - hopefully only money, and not magic items.
Perhaps they drain exp, too?
GarfunkeL
Racism Expert
Yes, IIRC. I tried them once and that seemed to be the case so I haven't used them since, though that was on the C-64 version. PC version might be different. Shouldn't be.
The hirelings are well worth it IMO, especially in the beginning and most especially against "the Ropers", which is one of the relatively most difficult of all GB battles.
There is more than enough XP in the PoR to max out all your characters.
I'd only hire Fighter type hirelings, though, since the extremely poor AI of the GB games make the other useless. Thieves won't backstab and Mages and Clerics will waste their spells on the a single kobold.
There is more than enough XP in the PoR to max out all your characters.
I'd only hire Fighter type hirelings, though, since the extremely poor AI of the GB games make the other useless. Thieves won't backstab and Mages and Clerics will waste their spells on the a single kobold.
GarfunkeL
Racism Expert
You mean the Rope Factory battles? I don't remember them being too difficult for a 6-man party. But yeah, agreed that if you get a hireling, definitely only accept Fighters. Their titles reveal what level they are, btw since in the first edition AD&D and D&D, every class had an unique title for each level. PoR manual should have the relevant titles.
My favorites are Krynn games, I played them a bit later after release (95-96) when we started some serious PnP games. And they were all take part in Krynn, I was also reading The Chronicles Trilogy so those games felt like heaven!
Also <3 Shattered Lands. Wasn't that one another Gold Box game?
Also <3 Shattered Lands. Wasn't that one another Gold Box game?
Several Trolls against lvl 2 characters is quite brutal. Sleep doesn't work, although you may be lucky and Sleep one of the Ogres. I usually wait until my mage is lvl 3 and can cast Stinking Cloud. With a SC and lvl 3 and 4 fighter hirelings as meat shield it becomes more manageable.
I still remember the rude shock the first time I played PoR and the trolls kept popping up again with full HP.
No, that was SSI's new engine after the Gold Box games. But it took them a year or so longer to develop than expected, which led to finanical troubles, and thus easy prey for assimilation by Ubisoft.
elodman
Novice
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2012
- Messages
- 30
thanx for answers
as for Exp - especially because of my party consists of 5 multiclassed (2 type of professions, not 3) and only 1 is a pure class (fighter) dude - possibly there is much exp to be gained till level cap, even if hirelings divide exp further.
Still considering:
1- so hirelings don't take their share from loot items?
2- worth to train and accompany the hirelings for later stages?
as for Exp - especially because of my party consists of 5 multiclassed (2 type of professions, not 3) and only 1 is a pure class (fighter) dude - possibly there is much exp to be gained till level cap, even if hirelings divide exp further.
Still considering:
1- so hirelings don't take their share from loot items?
2- worth to train and accompany the hirelings for later stages?
1. Don't know. But those hirelings that demand a share of items are not worth hiring in the first place. XP and Gold there is more than enough of, though.
2. Yes, they are worth training. But don't forget they are sellswords and may not nec'ly be 100% loyal if they get a better offer.
GarfunkeL
Racism Expert
octavius is correct about the replacing/hiring thing.
And I seem to remember that the Ogres fell victim to Sleep easily enough, leaving the trolls as pretty hard ones. Perhaps I also had access to Stinking Cloud by the time I cleared the Rope Guild.
And I seem to remember that the Ogres fell victim to Sleep easily enough, leaving the trolls as pretty hard ones. Perhaps I also had access to Stinking Cloud by the time I cleared the Rope Guild.
Interesting article about the Gold Box games from a Commodore fan boy's POV.
Apparantly the Amiga versions of Dark Queen of Krynn and Pools of Darkness are quite rare collectors items nowadays. Too bad my own boxes and manuals are in such a dismal shape after heavy use through the years.
Apparantly the Amiga versions of Dark Queen of Krynn and Pools of Darkness are quite rare collectors items nowadays. Too bad my own boxes and manuals are in such a dismal shape after heavy use through the years.
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