Gold Box SSI's Gold Box Series Thread

[Rincewind]

I can't stand the dos version of PoR. The sounds drive me nuts. C64 and Amiga spoiled me.

You can get those same sounds on the PC version of PoR by setting the sound to Tandy. By default, most configurations are set to PC Speaker.

By default, the Steam versions of the games are already configured this way.

Not the *same*. But it's an improvement over the PC Speaker version for sure.

 

[octavius]

One big difference with having a Paladin in your party in PoR is that now you can control the hirelings. So hiring a Mage or a Cleric is now more of a valid option. At least I assume the presence of the Paladin is the reason (it also works without using the GBC), since it has never happened when I've played PoR before.

The downside of starting with both a Ranger and a Paladin is that now I only have one Mage and one Cleric, instead of some multi-classed Elves, so the amount of Sleep and Cure Light Wounds spells are smaller than with a regular party.
So starting with Ranger and Paladin in PoR is a double edged sword. Choices&Consequences, baby....

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Actually, I’m surprised there never was a sound patch for earlier goldbox. Well, maybe if you used DungeonCraft on a custom but that’s not the same. I get used to it but yeah, pc speaker generally sucks in this case.

I want a video with more comparisons

 

[octavius]

That's weird...I played the Amiga version, not the C64 version, but it's the C64 music I "remember".


YT commenter:

Sadly, Pool of Radiance is the only game in the series that got any special music or graphics upgrade on the Amiga. The other gold box games on the Amiga were just ports of the DOS versions.

That's SSI for you. But not entirely true though. In CoaB you could in the Amiga version bundle scrolls and load the game from the Encamp menu. So there were so small improvements compared to the DOS version.

 

[La vie sexuelle]

That's weird...I played the Amiga version, not the C64 version, but it's the C64 music I "remember".

Mandela Effect.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Actually, I’m surprised there never was a sound patch for earlier goldbox. Well, maybe if you used DungeonCraft on a custom but that’s not the same. I get used to it but yeah, pc speaker generally sucks in this case.

I want a video with more comparisons

I didn't realize why Amiga fans were so passionate in defending their system until just now. I have a retroactive nerd boner and mourn that I never got to check it out.

Then again, I may have never left the computer if I had, so maybe it's for the best.

 

[ProphetSword]

I can't stand the dos version of PoR. The sounds drive me nuts. C64 and Amiga spoiled me.

You can get those same sounds on the PC version of PoR by setting the sound to Tandy. By default, most configurations are set to PC Speaker.

By default, the Steam versions of the games are already configured this way.

Not the *same*. But it's an improvement over the PC Speaker version for sure.

It's not exact, but it's close enough that I think most people would have a better experience if they changed the sound from PC Speaker to Tandy.

 

[Rincewind]

I can't stand the dos version of PoR. The sounds drive me nuts. C64 and Amiga spoiled me.

You can get those same sounds on the PC version of PoR by setting the sound to Tandy. By default, most configurations are set to PC Speaker.

By default, the Steam versions of the games are already configured this way.

Not the *same*. But it's an improvement over the PC Speaker version for sure.

It's not exact, but it's close enough that I think most people would have a better experience if they changed the sound from PC Speaker to Tandy.

Yeah, the Tandy PSG and the SID in the C64 are vastly different synths, but anything is an improvement over PC Speaker sound, no doubt

 

[octavius]

Just beat up a bunch of tossers in the Ropers Guild.
Stinking Cloud (thanks to a hired Evoker) is invaluable when your lvl 2 guys face four trolls. I could swear monsters used to blindly charge into Stinking Clouds, but now one of Trolls avoided the cloud. Also, the effect was not re-checked, when a Troll moved inside the cloud.

Also, I'm facing armies of vermin in random encounters, despite the current one being the weakest party I've played PoR with. The number of monsters in a random encounter us supposed to be based on your stats, but I have only one character with exceptional strength. Maybe the Ranger and Paladin is messing up the calculations in some way.

So either my memories of the game is from the Amiga version, or else there are differences between the DOS versions (1.3 being the latest one).

 

[Butter]

I played the latest DOS version last year, and Stinking Cloud definitely rechecks when people move in.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I recall c64 stinking cloud affected undead. I could easily be wrong. My emulated file of POR was seriously messed up as first fight in bar netted me with more jewelry and gems than I could pack. YUCK! Very hacky.

 

[Harlin]

I'm currently composing a long write-up for Countdown to Doomsday. There's nothing that accurate out there -- the documentation and clue book both have a significant number of errors and omissions, Gold Box Companion doesn't handle it or Matrix Cubed gracefully for many reasons, the new guide on GameFAQs that appeared ~2 months ago does not have up-to-date information, and the Genesis version is too different to be compatible.

I think the best party is this:

• 3 Desert Runner Warriors
• 2 Martian Medics
• 1 Desert Runner Engineer

Explanation:

Desert Runner is the best race, bar none; any class that can be one should choose that. Many of their bonuses aren't documented: they get +3 movement, +1 to Plasma/Explosion saving throws (this is the most important saving throw; you get relatively small bonuses to saving throws from level compared to AD&D, and there are also no magical spells or items that enhance saving throws), and +2 to Paralysis/Stun saving throws (the next most important saving throw).

(Yes the Buck Rogers games implement all kinds of rules like this without ever bothering to document them, which should surprise no one familiar with SSI.)

Tinker is a dubious choice, even with +3 Tech and +3 Dexterity, and even though Dexterity is the King of Stats as usual in retro RPGs. The -2 penalty to Strength and their undocumented -3 movement and -3 penalty to Plasma/Explosion saving throws are enough to more than negate those benefits. Martian is better for Medics; you still get +1 Dexterity, you don't get either large undocumented penalty, and -1 to Strength is a small enough penalty to possibly carry some heavy weaponry (plasma thrower, rocket launcher, grenade launcher) without hitting the encumbrance penalty. (70 max vs 85 max doesn't sound like a big difference ... but it is when a rocket launcher weighs 50 and a plasma thrower weighs 75.)

(Non-Warriors have a comparative advantage wielding heavy weaponry, as warriors can specialize in needle guns, polearms/mono swords, or rocket pistols.)

One Medic isn't enough to restore all the hit point damage you'll be taking. Having two of them is much more reliable and also saves you from heavily developing First Aid, which can now be one of those skills everyone should put one point in and then forget about.

Rocket Jocks are actually counterproductive in space combat. Pilot Rocket skill, despite the urgent tone in the documentation, is only actually useful in space combat for the one specific reason it states (ramming); what's more important is THAC0 (your pilot's weapons do far more damage than everyone else combined when hitting non-weapons), and Warriors are much better at that. That's partly because the Gold Box games faithfully replicate the flawed tables in the original tabletop sourcebooks that give Rocket Jocks worse THAC0 than they're supposed to. Thus you're better off with a Warrior who pours a bunch of general skill points into Pilot Rocket.

Rogues also have the same THAC0 problem, which weakens them as well. On the other hand, Engineers and Medics have better THAC0 than they're supposed to.

You shouldn't make a party of just warriors and medics, because then you won't have enough general skill points to cover all the skills you want. Either a Rogue or Engineer should be enough, and an Engineer does all of help significantly in space combat, has better THAC0 than a Rogue, and can be a Desert Runner.

For reference, the non-tactical-combat skills you should put >1 skill point in Countdown to Doomsday are: Climb, Hide in Shadows, Move Silently, Pilot Rocket, Bypass Security, Jury Rig, Open Lock, Repair Electrical, Repair Nuclear Engine, Astrogation, Library Search, Planetology, Programming, Befriend Animal, Fast Talk/Convince, Notice, Planetary Survival. If you transfer to Matrix Cubed, you also want: Acrobatics (on the same character who has Climb), Pilot Fixed Wing, Use Jetpack, Commo Operation, Repair Life Support, Sensor Operation, Etiquette, Intimidate.

Not ever used in either game to my knowledge: Drive Ground Car, Drive Jetcar, Pilot Rotor Wing, Treat Disease, Navigation (the log book is wrong on this one), Tracking (apparently intended to have been used, but Notice always gets checked instead). Life Suspension Tech is only checked once, and in that one place it's actually harmful to have; Mimic, Act, and Sing are also never checked for if you have Acrobatics.

I need to actually play through both games with this exact party composition and what I now know about the games to make sure the above actually works, which I plan to start soon. Does anyone have any reasons not to play the above?

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I’ll await a very full documentation with many tables. Nothing like rules being hidden to irk one. It looks like you could do many many play through a with different skills/race/class to experiment. That could be a plus compared to standard goldbox games. Worthless skills is annoying though.

 

[Beastro]

Same stuff apply to the Genesis version of Buck Rogers?

 

[moleman]

... With the GOG version I can start the game from GBC.
(Am I getting lazy?)

If you conquered you lazyness you could try to mimic a gog desktop shortcut.
GBC "Start game"-button launches the game through this.

The shortcut's name is "Lauch Pool of Radiance" and should be placed in the game folder you have set for GBC.
These are the properties for my Pool of Radiance gog-shortcut:
Target:

"D:\GOG Games\Pool of Radiance\DOSBOX\DOSBox.exe" -conf "..\dosbox_por.conf" -conf "..\dosbox_por_single.conf" -noconsole -c "exit"

Execute in:

"D:\GOG Games\Pool of Radiance\DOSBOX"

"dosbox_por.conf" is the dosbox-settings file.
"dosbox_por_single.conf" contains the mounting and starting the game.
This is my gogs "dosbox_por_single.conf"-file content:

[ipx]
ipx=false

[autoexec]
@echo off
cls
mount c ".."
mount C "..\cloud_saves" -t overlay
c:
cd POOLRAD
start
exit

You have to edit this for your system of course, but it should work.

 

[pjs]

Just beat up a bunch of tossers in the Ropers Guild.
Stinking Cloud (thanks to a hired Evoker) is invaluable when your lvl 2 guys face four trolls. I could swear monsters used to blindly charge into Stinking Clouds, but now one of Trolls avoided the cloud. Also, the effect was not re-checked, when a Troll moved inside the cloud.

I have also noticed some differences.

*The* Curse of the Azure Bonds FAQ says, in the context of changes relative to PoR:

* Stinking Cloud now has an effect against creatures already in a cloud.
* The AI no longer avoids tiles with a Stinking Cloud.

So you're likely remembering how Stinking Cloud works in other goldbox games (in COTAB at least).

 

[Harlin]

Same stuff apply to the Genesis version of Buck Rogers?

No, it's too different. They follow the same outline, but so many of the details are different.

 

[octavius]

so many of the details are different.

The Gold Box games in a nutshell.

 

[Ash]

Which is the best according to codex consensus? I can't see the poll results without voting myself, and I haven't played enough of these games to in good faith cast any vote. What are the top three?

 

[mediocrepoet]

Which is the best according to codex consensus? I can't see the poll results without voting myself, and I haven't played enough of these games to in good faith cast any vote.

PoR by a mile.

 

[Harlin]

Worthless skills is annoying though.

This is fairly common in retro RPGs (all Gold Box games do this actually), but the Buck Rogers games implement every single tabletop game skill in the engine, but don't allow most of them in the UI.

But that doesn't stop scripting bugs where the developers clearly intended to check a UI-enabled skill, then mistakenly check one of these hidden skills.

For instance, In either Countdown to Doomsday or Matrix Cubed, if you encounter an enemy spaceship randomly in the inner Solar System, you can get the option to "Ask for Help". This never works, which may seem intended, but this is actually a bug: the developers apparently intended to check the Act skill, but the actual skill checked is Paint/Draw. You can't get points in Paint/Draw (without hex-editing), so you always fail this check.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Worthless skills is annoying though.

This is fairly common in retro RPGs (all Gold Box games do this actually),….

Can you give examples in the other goldbox games. I suppose one could argue Demi-humans are either relatively worthless in the latter games or just a challenge (esp the games where lvl 40 is the cap).

 

[Harlin]

Worthless skills is annoying though.

This is fairly common in retro RPGs (all Gold Box games do this actually),….

Can you give examples in the other goldbox games. I suppose one could argue Demi-humans are either relatively worthless in the latter games or just a challenge (esp the games where lvl 40 is the cap).

Read Languages is fully implemented in all AD&D 1E Gold Box games, complete with level and race bonuses ... then never gets checked. There are occasional places where the games handle knowledge of other languages, just never with a skill check.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Damn. You know, rogues always bothered me a bit for stealth backstab mechanics compared to say wizards crown. Most treasure is never in a container you have to check for traps nor is it locked (there are at least places these skills are used but this is hardly hidden, just under utilized unless you run those Dave Challenges and the like. Climbing? Ha! TBH, the mini-map shouldn’t have been implemented imho but it is very simple and I don’t recall it even showing doors. I think POR & Curse tried the hardest to utilize as much as possible and later Champions and Death Knights seem to try and use as much Krynn related material. I feel the Frontier series tried a different approach with reinforcements, summoning, and unique pieces of equipment.

I still swear there were some things in different platforms left out or altered. The c64 I swear had a few extra random area on the continent map not in DOS.

Sometimes the text was too fast and this is where I loved my 486 with a slow button. It is like there is a hidden ENTER/RETURN press in some circumstances where i don’t get to read what happened. Sometimes before attack this happens in the game series. I think the games could have a few of the old bugs fixed though some are like Easter eggs like the dividing of arrows/quarrels with other gear in inventory until it creates weird shit because your inventory spaces are over maxed. Mostly a POR bug.

 

[Butter]

Which is the best according to codex consensus? I can't see the poll results without voting myself, and I haven't played enough of these games to in good faith cast any vote. What are the top three?

Most would say Pool of Radiance is best (or at the very least it's in the top 3). It has an impressive bestiary, ambitious world, varied quests, and an interesting slow burn story. I think Curse of the Azure Bonds is better for its improved UI, expanded classes, better encounter design, and higher level spells, but it's also a more on-rails experience. As the series progresses the entries are less and less memorable, but Champions of Krynn is a highlight for its unique Dragonlance mechanics (Kender race, Knight class that has to tithe, etc).