Gold Box SSI's Gold Box Series Thread

[Jaesun]

I love Google.

 

[doctor_kaz]

Are there any mods that makes these old games a little bit easier to play? I have tried to play the collection before but those old, old interfaces and save systems are just too much. Makes me feel like I'm playing a console game. I played the original Pool of Radiance on a Mac in 1991 and it was way better than the PC version because the interface was a lot better.

 

[Zomg]

What's wrong with the save system?

I think the interface in the stuff later than Curse is basically fine - everything is well-hotkeyed and fairly fast. The main thing that keeps sucking is the inventory management, which is quite bad at handling stuff like ammo, equipment swapping or consumables efficiently. But of course even new games do that shit poorly - they're just so brainless that you never need to bother in the first place. The journal reading might be described as "interface" and is also pretty cumbersome, I guess.

 

[Flux_Capacitor]

Like I've said, I've been playing some of these modules with FRUA (Forgotten Realms Unlimited Adventures), which is a toolkit produced by the developers that lets players create their own modules. It came out at the tail end of the engine's popularity, so its probably got the best interface you'll find for these. It takes a bit of extra setting up, but isn't too hard.

Personally, I've always found the save system to be quite good, if not one of the better ones out there. Its quick and painless, and has more than enough slots for my needs (10, I think). I'm usually a compulsive saver, and I'm tired of having to navigate through several menus, create a new save game slot, and then typing in a name for it. Granted, there's usually an auto-save slot, but there's almost always only one, which can present its own problems.

I don't think I've really had problems with the inventory, either. Sure, it could be better - reduced scrolling, filters, descriptions, encumbrance, etc. - but given the time the game came out, my gripes are at minimum.

 

[santino27]

I will say I've found innumerable odd bugs so far in Curse... (maybe due to the emulator). Things like me being taken to the incorrect locations on the wilderness map (try to go to Essembra, end up in Hillsfar), or the entire game being drawn in only the viewing window, while the rest of it remains on whatever screen was last showing, to even having my entire party disappear when at a training hall and was trying to train someone. (I went to load a saved game, got the msg saying I had not saved, canceled back, and found myself with 12 people in my party... right before the game crashed).

I don't remember all of this shit from my first dozen play-throughs.

(My one qualm about the actual game mechanics is that there's no way to load a saved game except at a training hall or once your party has been destroyed, (although it at least does not dump you to desktop, like it did in PoR).

 

[Flux_Capacitor]

I will say I've found innumerable odd bugs so far in Curse... (maybe due to the emulator). Things like me being taken to the incorrect locations on the wilderness map (try to go to Essembra, end up in Hillsfar), or the entire game being drawn in only the viewing window, while the rest of it remains on whatever screen was last showing, to even having my entire party disappear when at a training hall and was trying to train someone. (I went to load a saved game, got the msg saying I had not saved, canceled back, and found myself with 12 people in my party... right before the game crashed).

I don't remember all of this shit from my first dozen play-throughs.

That sounds like problems with the emulator or the copy of Curse you have. You might try redownloading both and see what happens. I really don't remember having many problems with the game. Which version of DosBox do you have? Is it even remotely current?

(My one qualm about the actual game mechanics is that there's no way to load a saved game except at a training hall or once your party has been destroyed, (although it at least does not dump you to desktop, like it did in PoR).

I had forgotten about that. It is kind of annoying. The FRUA engine lets you load games from the camp menu.

 

[mondblut]

(My one qualm about the actual game mechanics is that there's no way to load a saved game except at a training hall or once your party has been destroyed, (although it at least does not dump you to desktop, like it did in PoR).

Huh? Go to savegame submenu, hit escape, refuse to save and you're back to the game's starting menu, where you can load your saved game. Takes about 2 excess keystrokes and 0.01 excess seconds than the games which have "load game" always available.

 

[mondblut]

I use the frontend GameBase Amiga. Easy to install and set up, it handles all the UAE settings and whatnot so you don't have to worry about it. Latest version (1.5+) of WinUAE works fine, but you have to set the path manually. Then you just grab the preinstalled WHDL games from here or here and you're good to go.

I must be too drunk or too dumb.

I downloaded and installed gamebase then gamebase amiga. I have winuae 153 and my whdload poolrad was downloaded from whdownload.com. I set winuae in GEMUS emulation wizard (I guess). I set the path to poolrad, to hdd emulation directory where poolrad is installed, and to winuae directory where older poolrad floppies reside. The "play" button is still greyed out, and "verify available files" finds nothing.

Can you give step-by-step poolrad specific instructions? So far it looks like every emulator for a frontend for an emulator only makes things more complicated.

 

[PorkaMorka]

on an unrelated note...

here is an easy guide to getting frua with hacked modules running if you're lazy about figuring it out on your own

http://frua.isgreat.org/index.php?topic=464.0

 

[Severian Silk]

So, is it recommended to play the converted FRUA modules for each game, or is it better to play the original versions?

 

[jaylittle]

Original versions. Only Curse and PoR have FRUA modules. As for the originals, if you want to take your characters through all four FR GB games you have to choose either the Amiga or the DOS versions. I'm partial to the DOS versions because well thats what I grew up with. I would guess that the DOS ones are easier to get working given the issues mentioned in regards to the Amiga versions and harddrive loads within WinUAE. But on the flip side the first game, PoR is substanially less awesome looking and sounding on DOS. On the other hand, the last game PoD is far superior on the PC than the Amiga.

So the choice is yours

 

[Flux_Capacitor]

on an unrelated note...

here is an easy guide to getting frua with hacked modules running if you're lazy about figuring it out on your own

http://frua.isgreat.org/index.php?topic=464.0

Cool. I knew about the mailing list and the newsletters (which are pretty old now), but I hadn't seen the forum yet.

So, is it recommended to play the converted FRUA modules for each game, or is it better to play the original versions?

As far as I know, the only Gold Box games that have been made using FRUA are PoR and Curse. You can transfer the characters from FRUA PoR to FRUA Curse, but I wasn't able to transfer them to any of the original games. So, if you want to play through all of them with the same characters, it isn't possible. At least, not easily.

The graphics in FRUA are much improved over the originals, and the UI is probably the best you're going to see for the Gold Box games. I've posted several notes in this thread over the last couple days as I went through FRUA PoR, so that should give you an idea of the differences between it and the original. Also, FRUA PoR has additional classes (Paladin and Ranger), there's reduced demi-human class restrictions, and demi-humans have much higher level limits (I think its unlimited, but I'm not sure).

 

[jaylittle]

Demi-human level limits are just as bad in FRUA according to the manual.

 

[Flux_Capacitor]

Demi-human level limits are just as bad in FRUA according to the manual.

In 'vanilla' FRUA, demi-humans are handled identically as they are in the other Gold Box games. However, its possible to hack the level limits and class restrictions. In fact, its quite easy with some of the tools put together by the community. FRUA PoR and Curse are both hacked so that demi-humans have higher level limits (unlimited, I think). As far as classes go, I believe Elves and Half-Elves can be anything but Paladins (including all multi-class combinations), Dwarves and Halflings can be Clerics and Fighter/Clerics, and Gnomes can be Clerics, Fighter/Clerics and Mages (probably because Illusionist isn't really possible).

 

[Flux_Capacitor]

Well, I've officially lost the ironman play through of the FRUA modules. In the village of Hap, the Efreeti and Drow killed me in the barn. I'm pretty sure the number of enemies is beefed up from the original. I took out several of the patrols, which normally reduces the number you encounter in the barn. But, I checked out the maps through the editor, and it doesn't matter. In addition to the Efreeti, there were 4 mages and 4 clerics. They proceeded to pummel my group with fireballs and hold person. Of course, magic is practically worthless against them. I checked their stats in the editor, and they've got 66% magic resistance.

I'm going to continue on, since I had saved relatively recently. I still need to make it past that encounter, which seems exceedingly difficult.

 

[made]

Can you give step-by-step poolrad specific instructions? So far it looks like every emulator for a frontend for an emulator only makes things more complicated.

At the very bottom of the main window click on "Extras...", in the pop-up double click on WHDLoad and point it to where you dumped the zip (should be named PoolOfRadiance_v1.1_0555.zip). No need to unpack or install, it runs straight out of the zip. Then start the game with the Extras button next to the greyed out Play Game button. If it doesn't work you likely haven't copied your kickstart roms properly.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Well, I've officially lost the ironman play through of the FRUA modules. In the village of Hap, the Efreeti and Drow killed me in the barn. I'm pretty sure the number of enemies is beefed up from the original. I took out several of the patrols, which normally reduces the number you encounter in the barn. But, I checked out the maps through the editor, and it doesn't matter. In addition to the Efreeti, there were 4 mages and 4 clerics. They proceeded to pummel my group with fireballs and hold person. Of course, magic is practically worthless against them. I checked their stats in the editor, and they've got 66% magic resistance.

I'm going to continue on, since I had saved relatively recently. I still need to make it past that encounter, which seems exceedingly difficult.

Something I noticed back in the day: If you do not take the Arab mage to the fight, it has a lot less enemies. A lot easier fight.

 

[doctor_kaz]

What's wrong with the save system?.

You have to be in camp to save your game. At least that's how it was with PoR. I had major issues with that. If I remember right, this meant that you couldn't save your game in the town of Phlan unless you were resting at the inn. Also, there are lots of parts where you have to use graph paper to make maps. I got lost inside that pyramid for about a day once without ability to save my game. I have been wanting to replay PoR for years, but I just can't get into it. The encounters in PoR can be really brutal too. You have to do some cheese leveling up of your characters to survive early on.

I exploited the game big time while playing through. I would hire out 4th level henchmen and then cast sleep spells on them in combat and murder them in their sleep and take their shit. Then I would cast animate dead and use them as zombie warriors so that they wouldn't hog experience or gold. You could outfit a first or second level party with some excellent stuff by just hiring NPCs and murdering them.

 

[Flux_Capacitor]

Well, I've officially lost the ironman play through of the FRUA modules. In the village of Hap, the Efreeti and Drow killed me in the barn. I'm pretty sure the number of enemies is beefed up from the original. I took out several of the patrols, which normally reduces the number you encounter in the barn. But, I checked out the maps through the editor, and it doesn't matter. In addition to the Efreeti, there were 4 mages and 4 clerics. They proceeded to pummel my group with fireballs and hold person. Of course, magic is practically worthless against them. I checked their stats in the editor, and they've got 66% magic resistance.

I'm going to continue on, since I had saved relatively recently. I still need to make it past that encounter, which seems exceedingly difficult.

Something I noticed back in the day: If you do not take the Arab mage to the fight, it has a lot less enemies. A lot easier fight.

That may have been true in the original (I don't recall), but it isn't in the FRUA version. There isn't any way to affect the number or type of enemies you encounter; its the same no matter what. I did manage to beat the encounter after a couple tries.

 

[mondblut]

You have to be in camp to save your game. At least that's how it was with PoR. I had major issues with that. If I remember right, this meant that you couldn't save your game in the town of Phlan unless you were resting at the inn.

Wrong. You can "(E)ncamp" anywhere to save. You can even attempt to (R)est anywhere, it's just the guards who will immediately rouse you on streets of Phlan.

Then I would cast animate dead and use them as zombie warriors so that they wouldn't hog experience or gold.

...whoa. Never thought something like that would work.
How about spellcasters, do they retain ability to cast spells?

 

[Zomg]

What's wrong with the save system?.

You have to be in camp to save your game. At least that's how it was with PoR. I had major issues with that. If I remember right, this meant that you couldn't save your game in the town of Phlan unless you were resting at the inn.

Nope, you can encamp anywhere and save anywhere. You just get interrupted if you try to actually rest in a bad spot. I had actually forgotten what a pain it is to load games in the early GBs, though.

Also, there are lots of parts where you have to use graph paper to make maps.

The areas in most GBs are small enough (like 20x20 I think?) that you can easily brainmap them. There are some stupid maps in SSB that I remember being too big to keep in your head and mazey enough that you'd actually need a map, but nowadays you should just use the clue book maps.

 

[Severian Silk]

How critical is a strong understanding of the D&D rules to completing the game? Is everything pretty self-explanatory, or is it necessary to memorize all the rules? I'd rather not have to resort to a reading a walkthrough (on my first playthrough at least), as it ruins a lot of the fun.

 

[MisterStone]

Hmm, after trying that Buck Rogers game again, I found it to be pretty lame. All the early fights are done with ranged weapons that can shoot at least a screen away, so its just "target" "next" "attack" over and over again. Terrain and so on doesn't seem to mean anything, unless there is a wall between you and an enemy. I guess more advanced tactical games like XCom and JA ruined this for me.

 

[jaylittle]

The areas in most GBs are small enough (like 20x20 I think?) that you can easily brainmap them. There are some stupid maps in SSB that I remember being too big to keep in your head and mazey enough that you'd actually need a map, but nowadays you should just use the clue book maps.

Yeah. Frankly I'm lazy and just use the cluebooks myself. The manuals and cluebooks can all be snagged from replacementdocs.com

 

[santino27]

(My one qualm about the actual game mechanics is that there's no way to load a saved game except at a training hall or once your party has been destroyed, (although it at least does not dump you to desktop, like it did in PoR).

Huh? Go to savegame submenu, hit escape, refuse to save and you're back to the game's starting menu, where you can load your saved game. Takes about 2 excess keystrokes and 0.01 excess seconds than the games which have "load game" always available.

We must have different versions... when I go to the savegame menu, when camped, hit esc, and click no, I just go back to the save game menu. No option to load a game.