Sonic the Hedgehog Appreciation Thread

[Ash]

DKC3 is indeed shit (well, it's ok but I wouldn't recommend). You got trolled.

Yes they're monkeys. No most levels do not have much verticality though there is often at least some. But what next, they're monkeys so then they have to climb trees and shit, right? WTF they can't climb (well, except ropes)? This game is SHIT. They never need to stop and take a shit. DAFT and LAME! Stop applying real world logic or shit that marketers told you to think to video games, especially not Japanese kiddie ones. The only real world logic needed to apply is intuition in teaching mechanics and gameplay basics, as that is important for learning/accessibility/fair gameplay reasons (e.g the obstacle is ice wall, so therefore fire or huge blunt force or whatever is needed to overcome).
Still, more verticality is pretty much always welcome so I am with you nonetheless.

Sanic is a hedgehog, wtf hedgehogs can't jump! Stupid pick for a plaformer! Why the fuck is Mario a plumber? What kind of fucking pluming do they even have in mario world, none of the piping makes any sense whatsoever!

I'm probably being harsh on you, and if you played all three in a row which ends in DKC3 I can definitely see it being a bit much. Even 1 then 2 right after might start to wear on you. Like sonic, the gameplay is competent, definitely worthwhile yet definitely not amazing. You're better off with Super Mario Bros 3 for a totally superior platformer. However the aesthetics and music is top notch in both DKC and Sonic. I like all three of these classic 2D beasts.

What do you think of Earthworm Jim?

 

[Falksi]

DKC3 is indeed shit (well, it's ok but I wouldn't recommend). You got trolled.

Yes they're monkeys. No most levels do not have much verticality though there is often at least some. But what next, they're monkeys so then they have to climb tress and shit, right? WTF they can't climb (well, except ropes)? This game is SHIT. They never need to stop and take a shit. DAFT and LAME! Stop applying real world logic or shit that marketers told you to think to video games, especially not Japanese kiddie ones. The only real world logic needed to apply is intuition in teaching mechanics and gameplay basics, as that is important for learning/accessibility/fair gameplay reasons (e.g the obstacle is ice wall, so therefore fire or huge blunt force or whatever is needed to overcome).
Still, more verticality is pretty much always welcome so I am with you nonetheless.

Sanic is a hedgehog, wtf hedgehogs can't jump! Stupid pick for a plaformer! Why the fuck is Mario a plumber? What kind of fucking pluming do they even have in mario world, none of the piping makes any sense whatsoever!

I'm probably being harsh on you, and if you played all three in a row which ends in DKC3 I can definitely see it being a bit much. Even 1 then 2 right after might start to wear on you. Like sonic, the gameplay is competent, definitely worthwhile yet definitely not amazing. You're better off with Super Mario Bros 3 for a totally superior platformer. However the aesthetics and music is top notch in both DKC and Sonic. I like all three.

The lack of verticality in DKC 1 is just massively noticeable in general. The fact that they're monkeys and that there is little is just a funny observation, showing how dumb the devs were. It's like casting Rob Schneider in the lead role of Terminator instead of Arnie. In the context of the game it doesn't really matter, it's just funny (and lord knows I need to get some entertainment from these games somehow)

Be as harsh as you like, doesn't make you right. I think your post is quite balanced tbh, I just think my point still stands.

The aesthetics and music are indeed top notch in both DKC and Sonic without a doubt. Top grade stuff. Some of the DKC music is amazing, and Sonic's visual style is superb.

 

[Ash]

It is to be fair an interesting observation and it is odd that the devs didn't have the same thought, or what their justification was for why they didn't have that much verticality if they did think of it - perhaps the low FOV which in combination with screen aspect ratios (commonly wider than they are tall) and falling speed being faster than running speed it wouldn't make for great gameplay. Yeah probably that, whenever you take leaps of faith in that game in the few times there is major verticality there's little time to react to whatever the screen reveals as you come down. Though they did have a little more verticality in DKC2, yet each of these levels involved climbing up and down ropes or jumping in barrels which purposefully slows things down and guides you.

Not so much a problem in Mario as the falling speed isn't so fast and the FOV not so low.

Never thought about this myself before as I've not played them in many years. Played the absolute shit out of Mario Bros 3 just last year though. It's clear to me that it is the king of the old school 2D platformer from a gameplay POV. Also has an amazing romhack community, tons of high quality user-made mario...campaigns? Episodes? Worlds. Lets go with worlds, typically 8 of them per romhack as per the vanilla game's standard.

 

[Zerth]

I used to defend Sonic Adventure but it is certainly decline from 3K. I agree with most of your criticisms except that I like the SA2 treasure hunting (SA1's is too fucking easy). The emphasis on cinematic storytelling is awful. S3K is such a tight game with no fat at all and to go from that to the flabby adventure games definitely shows the excesses of Japanese game developers during the 3D boom of the 90s.

Genesis Sonic feels like anyone can play it while Sonic Adventure onwards feel explicitly like kids' games. This got worse after Sonic Unleashed where Sonic became a series for toddlers and autistic manchildren exclusively - and I include Mania in this.

I got rank A on every treasure hunting stage. There were pretty few instances where gliding and climbing around was fun. But overall, you just rush over the next objective getting past a rather forgettable level design. Knuckles gameplay was a neat opportunity to do something similar to Tomb Raider, but instead they went time attack treasure hunt.

sounds like you dont like anime

The irony is that I watched every season of Sonic X on TV back then. Shame on me.

 

[Morenatsu.]

can you imagine 3d labyrinth zone starring big the cat

missed opportunity

 

[LarryTyphoid]

Alright boys we're making a game starring Donkey Kong a big fuckin' gorilla who kidnaps women and terrorizes construction sites, what's gonna be his main method of attack in our game?

Rolling around. And make him die in one hit if a bug bites his toe.

Genius mate, this is what makes Rareware a cherished developer around the world

At least Sonic is a coherent character with his visual design and gameplay abilities complementing one another. The only real flaw of the classics in this regard is that Tails can also roll into a ball despite not being spiky (Sonic Team shared this criticism which is why when they introduced new characters later they either picked animals that could somewhat logically roll into a ball as a form of attack or defense, like armadillos or echidnas, or made characters that didn't roll into balls and had alternate spin-dash animations, like Vector and Espio in Knuckles Chaotix) but ultimately it's a minor complaint.

You could also argue that it doesn't make sense that Tails and Knuckles can run as fast as Sonic in S3K, but this is fine for two reasons: first, the game obviously wouldn't be as fun if they were slower, and two, Sonic's movement abilities in S3K makes him the fastest anyway regardless of base movement speed and acceleration.

So I think it's fair to say that Sonic Team put a lot more thought into the overall design of their games than Rareware with DKC, who basically made a completely new IP and stapled Donkey Kong onto it for name recognition. DKC also follows general Nintendo linear level design while Sonic has big sprawling levels with tons of secrets and alternate routes. If Sonic 3K and CD were PC games, the Codex would be calling them immersive sims.

 

[Ash]

The only real flaw of the classics in this regard is that Tails can also roll into a ball despite not being spiky

You could also argue that it doesn't make sense that Tails and Knuckles can run as fast as Sonic in S3K, but this is fine for two reasons:

If Sonic 3K and CD were PC games, the Codex would be calling them immersive sims.

Jesus Christ man what the fuck. You are simply trolling, right?

 

[Morenatsu.]

Yeah, what's wrong with him? The immersive sim is clearly Sonic Adventure, nya!

 

[LarryTyphoid]

I warned you about the Sonic autism - it's a dangerous force. However, as I said, Sonic Team shared my observations so I'm only as autistic as them.

This thread should probably be locked and "Sonic" should be censored like "nigger" to prevent further contamination.

 

[Falksi]

Love this real-life Sonic tribute........

Watch | Facebook

 

[Ash]

No way in hell I am clicking on a facebook link.

 

[Falksi]

No way in hell I am clicking on a facebook link.

It's worth it. It's fucking brilliant.

 

[Falksi]

Been playing a bit of Sonic Mania. It's OK, a definite step forward from the original titles. but it still doesn't set my world alight. The boss fights are great though.

This however I love the look of. The setup, structure and stage design from this brief demo seem to capture more of what I want from such a game.

Emerald Ties (thisisourcorner.net)

Just downloaded the demo. Very impressed!

 

[LarryTyphoid]

een playing a bit of Sonic Mania. It's OK, a definite step forward from the original titles.

Mania's got no SOVL

 

[Pound Meat]

Can we agree that the only good Sonic is Adventure? I tried the earlier games but I guess I was either too old or never knew them during their heyday when Genesis stuff was considered state of the art. I had the same problem with the old Castlevania games.



Sigh. Another era.

 

[Morenatsu.]

It's obviously Sonic 3 (and knookles), duh.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

Can we agree that the only good Sonic is Adventure?

Adventure is great, and even better when you compare it to its soulless post-2006 descendants. I disagree that it's better than the Genesis games, however.
The gameplay is a pretty admirable effort to translate the Genesis games into 3D, especially when you consider the strict restraints Sonic Team were under during SA1's development.

It's not quite there, though, and the rough patches are sloppily filled with easily broken scripted sequences that take control away from the player. There's never a moment in SA1 or any other 3D Sonic game where you have to run up a wall and jump off to reach a platform, which happens frequently in the Genesis series. Instead there's convenient springs at the top of the wall that will automatically shoot you to where you need to be, and most of the time you don't even run up the wall of your own volition, but are instead propelled by automated speed boosters. Loops are completely pointless from a mechanical perspective (being entirely automated) and exist solely to reference the 2D games, in which loops were both an obstacle and a method of gaining speed.

This is the sort of thing that should have been addressed in future titles, but unfortunately Sonic Team were mired in the mechanical complacency that seems to especially plague Japanese developers. They built off the wrong parts of SA1 until we eventually got the boost games which are completely unrecognizable as Sonic games in terms of their controls and core gameplay.

As for the story, SA1 shifted the series from a pretty straight-faced game that anyone could enjoy to a game explicitly meant for the kiddies. The goofy voices, stupid jokes, etc. This isn't so bad in SA1, most adults can appreciate the story for its cheese factor, similar to an anime series like Dragon Ball; however, like the gameplay, the story got worse and worse as the series went on till we got the current games which have writing meant for toddlers and autistic manchildren exclusively. Honestly try sitting through the godawful cutscenes of Sonic Lost World without cringing till you break your back.

 

[Parsifarka]

It is just a compiliation, but I'm still looking forward to Sonic Origins. Being able to play the classic Sonics in a modern engine on PC is huge incline. However, given SEGA's track record, I half expect them to fuck it up.

Completely missed this, so after almost 30 years at last I'll be able to play Sonic 2 Mystic Cave in vs mode without mandatory frame rate drops. This might be the best news in the series for a really long time, I would even say it's incline were I not highly suspicious they will screw up the physics.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

Fuck me, I completely missed that too. Too bad SEGA's about 3 years too fucking late with this one. The decompilations of Sonic 1 & 2 and Sonic 3 Angel Island Revisited are open source and moddable, so they'll always be superior to whatever SEGA releases - especially when you consider Sonic Team's absolutely fucking terrible history of ports and remasters. I mean, check out some hot footage from the recent release of "Sonic Colors Ultimate"!



That being said, if Sonic 3 releases with its music intact, that means that they've finally resolved the copyright issues with Brad Buxer and the rest of those stupid faggots who have been squatting on this shit for over a decade. So when Sonic Team inevitably releases their next rehashed anniversary game, at least we'll get some remixes of Ice Cap Zone/Hard Times.

 

[Pound Meat]

Has anyone made a Sonichu mod yet?

 

[Tavar]

It is just a compiliation, but I'm still looking forward to Sonic Origins. Being able to play the classic Sonics in a modern engine on PC is huge incline. However, given SEGA's track record, I half expect them to fuck it up.

Completely missed this, so after almost 30 years at last I'll be able to play Sonic 2 Mystic Cave in vs mode without mandatory frame rate drops. This might be the best news in the series for a really long time, I would even say it's incline were I not highly suspicious they will screw up the physics.

Yes, a competent port using the retro engine is much more exciting then the next shitty modern Sonic game. Sadly, I'm not feeling very optimistic about origins at the moment given that there has been no news since the announcement and that it is done by SEGA and not by Evening Star. Given that Sonic 1, 2 and CD already exist in the retro engine, they should have something to show by now and the release date has shifted from "early 2022" to just "2022". We should probably brace ourselves for the next disappointment in the franchise.

 

[Sukhāvatī]

Saw the film on TV the other day, surprisingly not that bad.

 

[0wca]

This was THE shit back in the day. Played the absolute fuck out of it with a friend.

 

[Gastrick]

Sonic 3&K final boss theme,

 

[Wyatt_Derp]

This was THE shit back in the day. Played the absolute fuck out of it with a friend.

Same here. Me and a friend got stuck in his house one weekend, without a ride into town. So we loaded up on speed, drank coffee/soda and stayed up for 3 days playing SEGA games, mostly Sonic. By the end of the weekend I was literally hallucinating animated Sonic characters. They were on the dish towels, the carpet, everything was Sonic the Hedgehog. Then I went home, got some sleep and cleared my head by playing some Doom. Ah, the 90s...