Solasta Solasta: Crown of the Magister Thread - now with Palace of Ice sequel DLC

[Parabalus]

Alright you lying, retarded fucks. A week in the penalty box.

InEffect, sadly, really is synonymous with KM builds. Anything else is wishful thinking.

 

[NJClaw]

Wait wait wait. Are some people restricting themselves in Pf:K (not talking about tabletop at all now) to one class and playing at highest difficulty at the same time?!

My standard group to go through Kingmaker on Unfair is Paladin 20, Bard 20, Alchemist 20, Cleric 20, Sorcerer 20, and Kineticist 20. Honestly, I fail to see how multiclassing could make this group more powerful, but I would be happy to be proven wrong here. Sometimes, when I feel frisky, the Paladin 20 becomes Monk 2/Paladin 18, but only because I have a soft spot for this kind of character, you only gain improved defenses from that Monk dip and you don't really need that when you have other ways to increase your AC and become untouchable without delaying your offensive abilities.

 

[Lacrymas]

It's very sus that you have such an extensive multiclassing system with a bajillion random subclasses AND prestige classes, but make single-classes more powerful.

 

[NJClaw]

It's very sus that you have such an extensive multiclassing system with a bajillion random subclasses AND prestige classes, but make single-classes more powerful.

The single most important design decision behind Pathfinder was to discourage multiclassing and give valid reasons to keep leveling your base class. That's why every class has every single level filled with features that scale with your level in that class. And that's also why there are a bajillion subclasses, since they let you create hybrid characters without multiclassing.

Everyone with even the slightest experience with the system knows it.

 

[mediocrepoet]

It's very sus that you have such an extensive multiclassing system with a bajillion random subclasses AND prestige classes, but make single-classes more powerful.

Nah, it's one of the explicit goals of the Pathfinder tabletop design when it split off from 3.5E. 3.5E's classes all had front loaded abilities so it was easy to bloat multiclass characters up with crazy combinations. About the only classes that couldn't benefit from this were casters unless they had prestige classes that gave them + caster levels as progression. Pathfinder aimed to keep interesting ability progression into the upper levels of each class and largely succeeded. The extensive multiclassing system, etc. is all due to the 3.5E roots.

EDIT: Guess that's what I get for being long winded. What NJClaw said above.

 

[Tacgnol]

Yes, above is absolutely correct. Paizo went out of their way to add better scaling to single classed characters and give you interesting reasons to stay as a single class.

It's exceptionally rare to see any builds on the tabletop that dip other classes.

Very different to the 3.5 approach where every build had a hodgepodge of classes and PRCs.

 

[Mortmal]

It's very sus that you have such an extensive multiclassing system with a bajillion random subclasses AND prestige classes, but make single-classes more powerful.

The single most important design decision behind Pathfinder was to discourage multiclassing and give valid reasons to keep leveling your base class. That's why every class has every single level filled with features that scale with your level in that class. And that's also why there are a bajillion subclasses, since they let you create hybrid characters without multiclassing.

Everyone with even the slightest experience with the system knows it.

Only on the codex , everywhere else people make builds,guides everywhere on how to dip... Most often its better to get single classed yes and not worth wasting time theory crafting but if its so useless then why not just go 5E or retroclone then , why bother with all that bloat . Will that make your party incredibly more powerful no , especially in cprg when some things are broken like the AOE effect of the kineticist.

 

[NJClaw]

Most often its better to get single classed yes and not worth wasting time theory crafting but if its so useless then why not just go 5E or retroclone then , why bother with all that bloat .

Are you implying that the only difference between 3.x and systems like AD&D or D&D 5E is the vast amount of multiclassing options? Man, are you drunk or something? Did you hit your head while stealing the Mona Lisa?

3.x adaptations can offer enough strategical and tactical depth regardless of multiclassing possibilities. I replay IWD2 twice a year and I barely ever multiclass. I love it and it's one of my favorite games ever, but I wouldn't like it as much if it was based on a different edition.

Only on the codex , everywhere else people make builds,guides everywhere on how to dip...

... and? Why should I care if the same people who find SpongeBob SquarePants: Battle for Bikini Bottom excruciatingly hard also make guides on how to dip in Kingmaker?

Spoiler

 

[Lacrymas]

It's very sus that you have such an extensive multiclassing system with a bajillion random subclasses AND prestige classes, but make single-classes more powerful.

The single most important design decision behind Pathfinder was to discourage multiclassing and give valid reasons to keep leveling your base class. That's why every class has every single level filled with features that scale with your level in that class. And that's also why there are a bajillion subclasses, since they let you create hybrid characters without multiclassing.

Everyone with even the slightest experience with the system knows it.

I am very aware of this, I'm questioning its logic. Why make prestige classes in this case? It seems counter-intuitive to the original idea.

 

[mediocrepoet]

It's very sus that you have such an extensive multiclassing system with a bajillion random subclasses AND prestige classes, but make single-classes more powerful.

The single most important design decision behind Pathfinder was to discourage multiclassing and give valid reasons to keep leveling your base class. That's why every class has every single level filled with features that scale with your level in that class. And that's also why there are a bajillion subclasses, since they let you create hybrid characters without multiclassing.

Everyone with even the slightest experience with the system knows it.

I am very aware of this, I'm questioning its logic. Why make prestige classes in this case? It seems counter-intuitive to the original idea.

You can still mix and match features or prestige classes in order to come up with something that more closely matches whatever your concept is without it actually being superior to a single class character, whereas in 3.5 such characters would usually be strictly superior to a single class character. Where this starts to go out the window is that over time, Pathfinder decided to bring in so many hybrid classes that basically anything you could come up with was already combined in some sort of munchkinized powerbuild class already, but those weren't part of the original core book. e.g. skald, magus, witch, oracle, etc.

Anyway, what does any of this have to do with Solasta? I've apparently lost the thread and how this came up to begin with for a game that's based on 5E and features no multiclassing or prestige classes at all.

 

[Tacgnol]

It's very sus that you have such an extensive multiclassing system with a bajillion random subclasses AND prestige classes, but make single-classes more powerful.

The single most important design decision behind Pathfinder was to discourage multiclassing and give valid reasons to keep leveling your base class. That's why every class has every single level filled with features that scale with your level in that class. And that's also why there are a bajillion subclasses, since they let you create hybrid characters without multiclassing.

Everyone with even the slightest experience with the system knows it.

I am very aware of this, I'm questioning its logic. Why make prestige classes in this case? It seems counter-intuitive to the original idea.

Prestige Classes are for very niche character options in Pathfinder for the most part (on the tabletop anyway, a lot of them seem to have more use in the CRPG).

There is a PRC that massively boosts necromancers who like using lots of weaker undead minions for example. It's of questionable use for any other type of Necromancer build.

 

[Mortmal]

It's very sus that you have such an extensive multiclassing system with a bajillion random subclasses AND prestige classes, but make single-classes more powerful.

The single most important design decision behind Pathfinder was to discourage multiclassing and give valid reasons to keep leveling your base class. That's why every class has every single level filled with features that scale with your level in that class. And that's also why there are a bajillion subclasses, since they let you create hybrid characters without multiclassing.

Everyone with even the slightest experience with the system knows it.

I am very aware of this, I'm questioning its logic. Why make prestige classes in this case? It seems counter-intuitive to the original idea.

You can still mix and match features or prestige classes in order to come up with something that more closely matches whatever your concept is without it actually being superior to a single class character, whereas in 3.5 such characters would usually be strictly superior to a single class character. Where this starts to go out the window is that over time, Pathfinder decided to bring in so many hybrid classes that basically anything you could come up with was already combined in some sort of munchkinized powerbuild class already, but those weren't part of the original core book. e.g. skald, magus, witch, oracle, etc.

Anyway, what does any of this have to do with Solasta? I've apparently lost the thread and how this came up to begin with for a game that's based on 5E and features no multiclassing or prestige classes at all.

Thread is about the merit or lack of merit in multiclassing , PF and 5E , anyway everything was said about solasta, at this point you will only get guys who ask "Hey guys is it gud?" without bothering to read anything at all. Does anyone know anything about upcoming content ? No .Does Myzzrym stil breath? nope.

 

[NJClaw]

Anyway, what does any of this have to do with Solasta? I've apparently lost the thread and how this came up to begin with for a game that's based on 5E and features no multiclassing or prestige classes at all.

The spirit of Sorcerer Victor now inhabits this place and, willing or not, the community must obey his tyrannical rules.

Rule 7: every thread is about how much AD&D and D&D 3.5 did things better.

I am very aware of this, I'm questioning its logic. Why make prestige classes in this case? It seems counter-intuitive to the original idea.

Every reason is valid a posteriori, but the reality is that prestige classes had to be in the system because they were part of D&D 3.5, and Pathfinder couldn't erase such a big part of its bastard father. A few people still bitched about them not being as omnipresent as in D&D, directly eliminating them would have caused a much harsher uproar.

 

[Cryomancer]

Anyway, what does any of this have to do with Solasta? I've apparently lost the thread and how this came up to begin with for a game that's based on 5E and features no multiclassing or prestige classes at all.

The spirit of Sorcerer Victor now inhabits this place and, willing or not, the community must obey his tyrannical rules.

Rule 7: every thread is about how much AD&D and D&D 3.5 did things better.

I am very aware of this, I'm questioning its logic. Why make prestige classes in this case? It seems counter-intuitive to the original idea.

Every reason is valid a posteriori, but the reality is that prestige classes had to be in the system because they were part of D&D 3.5, and Pathfinder couldn't erase such a big part of its bastard father. A few people still bitched about them not being as omnipresent as in D&D, directly eliminating them would have caused a much harsher uproar.

A lot of people here prefer older editions. I only talked about prestige classes as an example of how prestige classes should be. IE - Getting another class(prestige included) should be a character arc and depend on DM approval. Anyway, I have a thread to discuss why 2E is the best edition. We can discuss it there where is more appropriated.

Back to Solasta. I will replay Solasta once Sorc is launched, so I can see how metamagic works on 5E.

 

[Harthwain]

A lot of people here prefer older editions.

It's not hard to prefer the older editions if you stopped then and there. In fact, there was quite a bit of misunderstanding concerning the critique of BG3 as people had little idea about how 5E rules work. You ought to know, because you were among them. NJClaw and Elex were the ones who knew the most about 5E and dispelled some of the misconceptions. Now, with Solasta finally being here, I think RPG Codex got much more intimate with the ruleset. If only by the virtue of occlusion.

Edit: fixed a typo.

 

[rojay]

A lot of people here prefer older editions.

It's not hard to prefer the older editions if you stopped then and there. In fact, there was quite a bit of misunderstanding concerning the critique of BG3 as people had little idea about how 5E rules work. You ought to know, because you were among them. NJClaw and Elex were the ones who knew the most about 5E and dispelled some of the misconceptions. Now, with Solasta finally being here, I think RPG Codex got much more intimate with the ruleset. If only be the virtue of occlusion.

My exposure to 5E is Solasta and BG3.

So if you'd indulge me, how much of 5E is based on blowing up barrels full of oil?

 

[razvedchiki]

Have you thought about starting a blog?

have you checked the last 800 pages of the PK thread?

 

[Harthwain]

My exposure to 5E is Solasta and BG3.

So if you'd indulge me, how much of 5E is based on blowing up barrels full of oil?

I won't.

I am not posing as know-it-all when it comes to 5E, I don't play BG3 (it's still in EA) and I don't know all the modifications Larian made to BG3 (I don't bother that much keeping track of it until it's out).

But if you want to critique the rules (or say some ruleset is better), then I reckon you should at the very least be familiar with it.

 

[rojay]

My exposure to 5E is Solasta and BG3.

So if you'd indulge me, how much of 5E is based on blowing up barrels full of oil?

I won't.

I am not posing as know-it-all when it comes to 5E, I don't play BG3 (it's still in EA) and I don't know all the modifications Larian made to BG3 (I don't bother that much keeping track of it until it's out).

But if you want to critique the rules (or say some ruleset is better), then I reckon you should at the very least be familiar with it.

Too right. I just wanted to know how barrels are handled in 5E. Because man, 50% of my experience says they're super important.

 

[Mortmal]

My exposure to 5E is Solasta and BG3.

So if you'd indulge me, how much of 5E is based on blowing up barrels full of oil?

I won't.

I am not posing as know-it-all when it comes to 5E, I don't play BG3 (it's still in EA) and I don't know all the modifications Larian made to BG3 (I don't bother that much keeping track of it until it's out).

But if you want to critique the rules (or say some ruleset is better), then I reckon you should at the very least be familiar with it.

Too right. I just wanted to know how barrels are handled in 5E. Because man, 50% of my experience says they're super important.

In dungeon master manual page 267 barrels are mostly covered, and page 152 oil barrels too but in the player manual this time.

"Strategic placement of explosives, from the renaissance or modern era (the latter are priceless) is paramount to a successful 5e campaign, only second to inclusivity and diversity.

BOMB
As an action, a character can light this bomb and throw it at a point up to 60 feet away. Each creature within 5 feet of that point must succeed on a DC 12 Dexterity saving throw or take 3d6 fire damage.

GUNPOWDER
Gunpowder is chiefly used to propel a bullet out of the barrel of a pistol or rifle, or it is formed into a bomb. Gunpowder is sold in small wooden kegs and in water-resistant powder horns.
Setting fire to a container full of gunpowder can cause it to explode, dealing fire damage to creatures within 10 feet of it (3d6 for a powder horn, 7d6 for a keg). A successful DC 12 Dexterity saving throw halves the damage. Setting fire to an ounce of gunpowder causes it to flare for 1 round, shedding bright light in a 30-foot radius and dim light for an add itional 30 feet.

DYNAMITE
As an action, a creature can light a stick of dynamite and throw it at a point up to 60 feet away. Each creature within 5 feet of that point must make a DC 12 Dexterity saving throw, taking 3d6 bludgeoning damage on a fail ed save, or half as much damage on a successful one."


Cannot blame solasta for not having the budget to implement those really.

 

[Cryomancer]

It's not hard to prefer the older editions if you stopped then and there.

Comparisons with the old is common. Any Gothic 3 thread will have someone mentioning how G2/1 was better. Every FNV thread has comparisons with FL 1/2... I prefer 2E. Already explained why in other thread, I believe that many people here who played 3E adaptations are now understanding a bit of 5E. Obviously playing in a video game or in table are two completely different experiences, one is a solo experience. Other is a social experience.

Lets be real. We got DOZENS of 2E adaptations, a couple of 3E adaptations, and 5E, only Solasta as a faithful adaptation despite not being a official D&D product. Maybe you can count BG3 on it too, after modders remove the Larienism on the game. For comparison, we have more blobbers following AD&D ruleset than all 5E games combined. Dungeon Hack, Ravenloft: Strahd's Possession, Ravenloft : Stone Prophet, Menzoberranzan, Eye of The Beholder 1~3...

Till Solasta, all 5E "video games" was mobile cashgrabs or action games with no faithfulness to the ruleset like sword coast legends. I an really glad that we finally got a faithful adaptation of the ruleset.

Also an really glad that Solasta has a more unique setting. Sword Coast is overrated.

3d6 for a powder horn, 7d6 for a keg

That seems way to low damage IMO.

 

[Vault Dweller]

The final battle is way too easy. I was playing on autopilot at the end, so I started the fight without potions ready, most spells gone, one character was at 50% of health. I kept the few remaining spells in reserve, waiting for when things get really tough, and then it was over. Zero replay value.

 

[jackofshadows]

The final battle is way too easy. I was playing on autopilot at the end, so I started the fight without potions ready, most spells gone, one character was at 50% of health. I kept the few remaining spells in reserve, waiting for when things get really tough, and then it was over. Zero replay value.

I was underprepared too and in the very last fight things weren't looking good at all for many rounds to come, was getting overwhelmed so my arm at some point was even reaching for F9 but then... it was over. For such designed "hold your ground no matter what" fight it was pathetic. They did several difficulty levels and even many custom options so I crank it up to max default but this one fight especially felt anticlimatic because it should've been designed differently for high level: much more mobs, for one.

 

[Cryomancer]

I loved 90% of Solasta. But the 10% of late game fells unfinished.

 

[Mortmal]

It's not hard to prefer the older editions if you stopped then and there.

Comparisons with the old is common. Any Gothic 3 thread will have someone mentioning how G2/1 was better. Every FNV thread has comparisons with FL 1/2... I prefer 2E. Already explained why in other thread, I believe that many people here who played 3E adaptations are now understanding a bit of 5E. Obviously playing in a video game or in table are two completely different experiences, one is a solo experience. Other is a social experience.

Lets be real. We got DOZENS of 2E adaptations, a couple of 3E adaptations, and 5E, only Solasta as a faithful adaptation despite not being a official D&D product. Maybe you can count BG3 on it too, after modders remove the Larienism on the game. For comparison, we have more blobbers following AD&D ruleset than all 5E games combined. Dungeon Hack, Ravenloft: Strahd's Possession, Ravenloft : Stone Prophet, Menzoberranzan, Eye of The Beholder 1~3...

Till Solasta, all 5E "video games" was mobile cashgrabs or action games with no faithfulness to the ruleset like sword coast legends. I an really glad that we finally got a faithful adaptation of the ruleset.

Also an really glad that Solasta has a more unique setting. Sword Coast is overrated.

3d6 for a powder horn, 7d6 for a keg

That seems way to low damage IMO.

8d6 for a fireball , so not really low, i mean you spent years in the academy for doing barely better than a barrel...