Baldur's Gate So... Which Studio Should Replace Larian As The Developer of Baldur's Gate 4?

[scytheavatar]

Codex, Owlcat is not that big of a studio. A BG4 from them is going to look like indie shit in comparison to BG3. Obsidian making this game won't be any better cause they are struggling now even to make a medieval The Outer Worlds. And this really is why WOTC is fucked.

If I am a WOTC executive in charge I won't even consider making a BG4. I would push to make a smaller game like a Curse of Strahd game.

Eh. Owlcat can probably improve on its engine and assets deficiencies given adequate time and resources and it's something they have a robust interest in improving on anyway. The key thing here is that their games incorporate a heightened degree of reactivity in a long, complex narrative, and that's the thing other candidates would struggle with the most.

Certainly does feel like skipping one or two steps, however.

Owlcat games sell 1-2 million and they have failed to grow their playerbase beyond that limit......... the truth is their games appeal to the codex audience and have limited appeal to the casuals. Everyone complains about the shitty strategy mini games that Owlcat keeps putting into their games and casuals hate it more than the hardcore players do. These mini games exist to hide how basic Owlcat games are and how limited the RPG elements are in their games.

The truth is that Sven is a legend not just because he's the best CRPG director ever, but also because he's one of the best businessman in the industry and knows how to make games that appeal to a large audience. Owlcat doesn't have a Sven in them, their track record is a studio which is happy to remain AA and would burst into flames if they are forced to become AAA. Based on that it's hard to believe Owlcat has the potential to make a successful BG4.

 

[Morality Games]

Codex, Owlcat is not that big of a studio. A BG4 from them is going to look like indie shit in comparison to BG3. Obsidian making this game won't be any better cause they are struggling now even to make a medieval The Outer Worlds. And this really is why WOTC is fucked.

If I am a WOTC executive in charge I won't even consider making a BG4. I would push to make a smaller game like a Curse of Strahd game.

Eh. Owlcat can probably improve on its engine and assets deficiencies given adequate time and resources and it's something they have a robust interest in improving on anyway. The key thing here is that their games incorporate a heightened degree of reactivity in a long, complex narrative, and that's the thing other candidates would struggle with the most.

Certainly does feel like skipping one or two steps, however.

Owlcat games sell 1-2 million and they have failed to grow their playerbase beyond that limit......... the truth is their games appeal to the codex audience and have limited appeal to the casuals. Everyone complains about the shitty strategy mini games that Owlcat keeps putting into their games and casuals hate it more than the hardcore players do. These mini games exist to hide how basic Owlcat games are and how limited the RPG elements are in their games.

The truth is that Sven is a legend not just because he's the best CRPG director ever, but also because he's one of the best businessman in the industry and knows how to make games that appeal to a large audience. Owlcat doesn't have a Sven in them, their track record is a studio which is happy to remain AA and would burst into flames if they are forced to become AAA. Based on that it's hard to believe Owlcat has the potential to make a successful BG4.

Reason why they can't grow is because their production values are extremely underwhelming compared to Larian's and especially Baldur's Gate 3. If you rebuilt Wrath of the Righteous in the style of Baldur's Gate 3 you would see a huge spike in sales.

Absence of multiplayer is also probably a significant but less consequential factor.

Still, 1-2 million is a very solid number and just goes to show how strong the appetite for these kinds of games are. That a game that spends tens of hours reading and/or listening to giant walls of text can reliably sell between 1-2 million copies is a small miracle.

 

[Orud]

Give it to Running With Scissors. Go on, tell me you don't want to shit all over Baldur's Gate.

 

[taxalot]

They'll do a TV series first.

 

[Baron Tahn]

It's dead, Jim.

 

[Stoned Ape]

pony up more of their own cash and resources in exchange for a bigger share of the take.

Hasbro are not in a good financial position, their stocks have justifiably lost nearly half their value over the past 5 years as they and are run by a bunch of incompetent retards. Although their stock rose a bit after BG3's success, they are starting to slip back down again. I doubt they'd be able to back anyone with more than a few million dollars. They are probably desperate to capitalise on the success of BG3 while it's still in the zeitgeist, but I can't see how they would realistically go about doing so.

So they'd almost certainly have to get in a partner for funding, and Microsoft Game Studios probably have the deepest pockets and the longest arms. Whether inXile are capable of delivering a AAA game of that type is another question entirely; Clockwork Revolution looks like a bad knockoff of Bioshock Infinite and the trailer doesn't look visually impressive. Obsidian are a train wreck that are currently working on a game that looks like hot garbage.

Owlcat don't have the financial clout to attempt to do anything like BG3, and Rogue Trader was immensely disappointing (I enjoyed both Pathfinder games more than BG3, but I'm not the target audience for that sort of project).

Bioware is run by retards, for retards but I doubt EgAy would be interested in allowing them to develop another company's IP.

I doubt there is a developer in the west (apart from Larian, who aren't interested) who has the capacity to produce anything as competently produced as a BG3 part 2. They either don't have the experience, the staff pool, or access to sufficient funding.

I think there won't be a BG4 any time soon.

 

[bionicman]

prosper can do it, i believe in him

 

[Sweeper]

1) It's not gonna happen.
2) I voted for BioWare because I assume that would result in the biggest drop in quality.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Obsidian - struggles to manage projects at any scale unless Sawyer is in charge.

Bioware - a dead meme

inXile - they seem to be a broadly more competent version of what Obsidian has become. They also seem to be the most willing to imitate Larian and have an edge in production values over everyone except maybe Bioware.

Owlcat - they make the budget versions of Baldur's Gate 3 and have mapped out some fairly complex interactivity relations

Owlcat would be the long term investor's pick and is probably smart choice, but inXile isn't bad.

Since inXile involves a partnership with Microsoft, it really depends on whether Hasbro is trying to get a more guaranteed result in exchange for sharing the profits or is willing to pony up more of their own cash and resources in exchange for a bigger share of the take.

Obsidian would also involve a partnership with Microsoft. Microsoft is in a possible where they don’t need D&D at all, they own Elder Scrolls, and they own Fallout. If they want one of their studios to make something like a Baldur's Gate 3 they can do that with either the Elder Scrolls or Fallout brand. The only reason for Microsoft to get in bed with WotC for a D&D game would be to keep something like a Baldur's Gate 3 off the PlayStation.

It would be interesting to see them go to some Japanese studio like Atlus, Square Enix, or Capcom. But WotC seemingly has no idea Japan exist...that’s about the only thing that can explain something like their Dungeons & Dragons: Dark Alliance game not being made by one of the many independent Japanese studios that basically do nothing but action games.

After the numbers Baldur’s Gate 3 did I’m sure EA, Ubisoft, and Take-Two would happily try their hand at a Baldur’s Gate 4. Although it seems like Ubisoft is in the middle of trying to make Might and Magic a bigger series, so if they were going to do something like a Baldur’s Gate 4 they may as well just do it as a Might and Magic game.

 

[GrainWetski]

Let the raped corpse lie.

 

[scytheavatar]

Codex, Owlcat is not that big of a studio. A BG4 from them is going to look like indie shit in comparison to BG3. Obsidian making this game won't be any better cause they are struggling now even to make a medieval The Outer Worlds. And this really is why WOTC is fucked.

If I am a WOTC executive in charge I won't even consider making a BG4. I would push to make a smaller game like a Curse of Strahd game.

Eh. Owlcat can probably improve on its engine and assets deficiencies given adequate time and resources and it's something they have a robust interest in improving on anyway. The key thing here is that their games incorporate a heightened degree of reactivity in a long, complex narrative, and that's the thing other candidates would struggle with the most.

Certainly does feel like skipping one or two steps, however.

Owlcat games sell 1-2 million and they have failed to grow their playerbase beyond that limit......... the truth is their games appeal to the codex audience and have limited appeal to the casuals. Everyone complains about the shitty strategy mini games that Owlcat keeps putting into their games and casuals hate it more than the hardcore players do. These mini games exist to hide how basic Owlcat games are and how limited the RPG elements are in their games.

The truth is that Sven is a legend not just because he's the best CRPG director ever, but also because he's one of the best businessman in the industry and knows how to make games that appeal to a large audience. Owlcat doesn't have a Sven in them, their track record is a studio which is happy to remain AA and would burst into flames if they are forced to become AAA. Based on that it's hard to believe Owlcat has the potential to make a successful BG4.

Reason why they can't grow is because their production values are extremely underwhelming compared to Larian's and especially Baldur's Gate 3. If you rebuilt Wrath of the Righteous in the style of Baldur's Gate 3 you would see a huge spike in sales.

Absence of multiplayer is also probably a significant but less consequential factor.

Still, 1-2 million is a very solid number and just goes to show how strong the appetite for these kinds of games are. That a game that spends tens of hours reading and/or listening to giant walls of text can reliably sell between 1-2 million copies is a small miracle.

There are issues with Owlcat games which goes beyond their production values, just look at the steam reviews of their games. Kingmaker is at 77% positive, WOTR is a 83%, Rogue Trader is at 76%. Meanwhile Solasta is at 88% positive and Colony Ship is at 87%, these are by devs with WAYYYYY fewer resources and production values than Owlcat. And I would argue I have more faith in Tactical Adventures and Iron Tower for a BG4 than I do with Owlcat.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

New renderer, optional party controls, integrated content browser, UI mod support, tons of new Toolset features etc.,

New renderer that oddly enough looks just like the old renderer. Content browsers aren't complicated. They added support for UI mods, but couldn't alter the UI for their console ports? Novel.

 

[roguefrog]

2. A continuation of sorts, re-using Larian's horny companions because they are popular now. Possibly using the same PC and starting at a higher level.

That's usually material for an expansion campaign, not a full sequel.

We have relevent examples of both:

Baldur's Gate 2 is a full sequel.
Mask of the Betrayer is an expansion campaign.

 

[Gargaune]

New renderer, optional party controls, integrated content browser, UI mod support, tons of new Toolset features etc.,

New renderer that oddly enough looks just like the old renderer. Content browsers aren't complicated. They added support for UI mods, but couldn't alter the UI for their console ports? Novel.

Just 'cause what they added doesn't appeal to you personally doesn't make it a "pump and dump", NWN EE was in support for a long while and got a nice share of improvements by the end. Between the henchman controls, the modder/builder features and the new renderer (which I do see the difference with, by the way), I wouldn't wanna go back to the DE unless I had to. The DE's still fine, but I find the EE to be the better experience.

P.S. Not that I'm arguing Beamdog should do BG4, by the by. I don't think they have the staff scope for it (even before Embracer's downsize) and whoever follows Larian's gonna have an uphill battle anyway, I'd rather Beamdog do what they should be doing - IWD2 EE, NWN2 EE and more NWN EE expansions.

 

[v1c70r14]

just look at the steam reviews of their games

Steam reviews mean less than nothing, Grimoire is one of the best blobbers ever made and is sitting on mixed on steam because the developer made some people pissy and through no flaw of the game. Maybe Rogue Trader is significantly worse than WOTR to deserve the lower score, maybe customers prefer the fantasy setting and Pathfinder ruleset more, maybe it's something else. I don't play OwlCat games myself, so I don't know, but I take issue with thinking Steam reviews are valuable or significant at all.

 

[Harthwain]

Maybe Rogue Trader is significantly worse than WOTR to deserve the lower score, maybe customers prefer the fantasy setting and Pathfinder ruleset more, maybe it's something else. I don't play OwlCat games myself, so I don't know, but I take issue with thinking Steam reviews are valuable or significant at all.

Steam reviews may not be "valuable", but they can indicate whether people like something or not. A lot of negative reviews are for the game being buggy and undercooked (especially past Chapter III). I gave them a negative review myself. But a lot more people didn't play past Chapter III, and these people tended to give the game positive review. That's how it ended up at 76%. What you should be afraid of is Mixed or lower scores (Blood Bowl 3, ouch!).

 

[mindx2]

Any halfway decent studio would not want a BG4 as you are just setting yourself up for failure as the media and fans will eviscerate it regardless of any perceived quality. It won't be a Larian game (style, substance, reactivity, etc.) and certainly wouldn't be given the same time or budget. If it ever happens (in the near term) it will be some low visibility/no-name studio that just wants any money Hasbro is willing to spare to keep their doors open. It would/will be terrible and get twice the flack said halfway decent studio would have received.

 

[duskvile]

BG4 should go back to the roots. RTWP and painted 2D backgrounds.

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

Just like people complained BG3 is not like the Bioware ones I think people will complain BG4 is not like the Larian one. No one really makes Larian style rpgs right now.

 

[Serus]

Only a root-eating Frenchman could do it.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I think they should let the studio behind the most memorable D&D game of all time take a stab at the BG series. They even already have experience with the Forgotten Realms.

Baldur's Gate 4 by Tuque Games!

Looks like they're called Invoke Studios now and they're fully owned by WotC!

 

[Nikanuur]

Iron Tower

 

[Faarbaute]

Any halfway decent studio would not want a BG4 as you are just setting yourself up for failure as the media and fans will eviscerate it regardless of any perceived quality. It won't be a Larian game (style, substance, reactivity, etc.) and certainly wouldn't be given the same time or budget. If it ever happens (in the near term) it will be some low visibility/no-name studio that just wants any money Hasbro is willing to spare to keep their doors open. It would/will be terrible and get twice the flack said halfway decent studio would have received.

In this same vein, it occurs to me that a truly monocled Baldur's Gate 4 would most likely be a huge flop, now that there is an appetite for whatever Baldur's Gate 3 was.

 

[mediocrepoet]

In this same vein, it occurs to me that a truly monocled Baldur's Gate 4 would most likely be a huge flop, now that there is an appetite for whatever Baldur's Gate 3 was.

It's why I keep suggesting shit studios. Release awful BG4, then announce BG5 as an awesome return to form and roll the dice.

 

[Ibn Sina]

There won't be BG4, at least for a decade. No one can do what Larian did.