Skyrim is worse than Oblivion in every way

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

They do respawn, and now I have to fight through them just to get my stuff back.

maybe they didn't respawn, but under the influence of their radiant AI decided to relocate from another location because of all the cool stuff you left there an obvious example of where skyrim c&c worked well.

If that were the case, I'd actually be kind of cool with it. Hell, it'd be a good excuse to bring back the locking and unlocking spells.

Maybe if there was some famous thief with a large bounty you wanted to catch, you'd set up collections of artifacts to draw his attention and lure him out. Then there could be whole side actions where (if you're not skilled yourself) you can hire someone to increase the security of your home, and only you have the key.


If stuff did get stolen you'd get some quests to track them (or your items if they'd already been pawned off) down. If you don't go after them, maybe you find them turning up again somewhere in the world economy.



Come to think of it, something like this would make Radiant a heck of a lot more interesting to mess with. Though you'd also have thieving NPCs doing Benny Hill-style chases with the guards like in Oblivion.

 

[Neeshka]

you can only train 5 skills per level and at higher levels you need more skill increases to level up so it will not let you level up fast.

Yes I know.

The point is that at higher levels; say close to 95 one-handed; training that is extremely expensive. However if at every character level I go and train some random ability ; say alteration magic; i get a decent chunk of xp. I just trained alteration yesterday at level 42 and it gave me half a level. It takes hours to get 1 skill point in 1h at this point too.

On the other hand 1 handed is capped at 100. So after that point I get no xp from hitting stuff with one-handed weapons. So now I have to go around and level random shit with skills that are totally gimp. Or level non combat stuff that server no purpose in my normal gameplay.

Seems flawed to me.

Another thing is quests themselves give no xp and killing a dragon and killing 5 rats seem to level skills at a similar rate; the whole thing just seems unreal.

 

[Gord]

On the other hand 1 handed is capped at 100. So after that point I get no xp from hitting stuff with one-handed weapons. So now I have to go around and level random shit with skills that are totally gimp. Or level non combat stuff that server no purpose in my normal gameplay.

I thought the leveling system worked roughly like this:
You get "exp" from leveling a skill. When you have enough exp, you get a level up. The higher your level, the more exp you need. Low skills provide few exp, the higher the skill the more exp you get.

So yes, you can level random stuff, but it should affect your exp less than your "main" skills. OTOH, it may indeed be much faster at higher levels, as your high skills take probably forever to level..

Personally I think it's best to just start a new character eventually. You get more mileage out of this kind of games if you restrict what you do to "in-character" stuff.

 

[Gerrard]

Containers in towns are not safe either, as they will respawn after a number of in-game days (a large number, but still).

I think it's intended. But I don't think leveling up too much is a good idea, because of level scaling.

Enemy levels aren't scaled.

Yeah, only their HP, armor rating, and damage dealt.
But it doesn't matter since by the time I finished on level 47 there were only 2 types of enemies:
- those that dealt pitiful damage
and
- those that dealt massive damage

 

[DraQ]

I'm actually mildly hopeful when it comes to the rest of my playthrough.

Sure the mechanical simplification is inexcusable, especially given how well the old, rich mechanics of MW/DF would work with this game (spellmaker - new spells are effectively effects, you should be able to combine them, attributes, removed skills and so on) and whoever designed the interface should be put against the wall (it's not a hyperbole, BTW, he seriously should be fucking shot in his derpy head as the only way to be sure that he never designs any UI anymore), but the game seems massive improvement over oblivious in all the other areas. I'll have to see how well does it hold up to the scrutiny later on.

The game generally seems much more low-key when it comes to world creation - dirty and gritty, not pristine and shiny like oblivious.

They seem to have removed most of the outrageously derpy elements from oblivious - for example talking with an NPC doesn't make you cringe anymore (at least so far). I have found one or two excessively derp books, though.

Also, art design has *massively* improved, although a lot of armours are not very, umm, armour-like. All the minimalistic straps, loincloths and buckles would work better as some auxiliary gear or something, with actual armour going beneath.

Oh, well - I guess Slof will be happy to be able to make her mods without having to change the armours much.

 

[Rhalle]

So I let my lvl 51 Nord nationalist complete the main quest and the Stormcloak path. It's a pretty good game for what it is, but Bethesda starts strong and kind of fizzles out. So much that appears to be promised by the quest paths simply doesn't happen.

Spoiler

Where is the Moot? Ulfric doesn't become king-- you're just supposed to attack Imperial camps with their essential and unkillable leaders? Nothing happens in Sovrngard excepting shouting away fog and killing Alduin, which wasn't anything special.

I mean, that's the dragon who's supposed to bring about the end of time?

I wonder if Bethesda cut things for time or budget or if they are holding them back for their "substantial" DLCs.

Guess I'll go do the Theives Guild, Dark Brohood (and probably Mage Guild) on my Dark Elf evil assassin guy, and totally avoid the MQ.

 

[Erzherzog]

I'm still not convinced either way whether or not individual enemies are scaled to your level (though I ignored like half this thread, so maybe someone proved it), but enemy spawn lists are definitely scaled. Frankly, by levels 35/40+ I didn't give a shit whether it was the same enemies scaled to your level or low-level spawns replaced by higher-level spawns, because whatever the reason, fighting crypts consisting p. much entirely of Draugr Death Overlords and Scourge is really goddamn boring.

Which is essentially Morrowind level scaling minus the odd dungeon populated by handcrafted NPCs.

 

[Mayday]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rOWBG0o ... r_embedded

ok

 

[Gerrard]

It seems like there are at least some pre-placed monsters. I met a draug deathlord on my level 15 caster. Needless to say the encounter was quite brief, as I took 160+ damage from one arrow and died.

 

[Gregz]

I have a fundamental problem with levelling xp in this game.

Levelling skills get slower and slower the higher up you get. And costlier too, if you wish to train.

However getting an addition skill level in any skill seems to give around the same amount of main character level xp.

So at higher levels (say 25-40+), it's easier to just go to a trainer and train an unused skill and level up incredibly fast. Or just occasionally use, say, destruction or restoration magic as a physical melee class.

Is this intended ? Seems like really bad game design to me.

you can only train 5 skills per level and at higher levels you need more skill increases to level up so it will not let you level up fast.

Tell ya what tho...if you find a trainer early, and train those 5 skills, and pickpocket your money back each time train (which also improves pickpocket giving you faster levels)...

You can level up surprisingly fast.

 

[Gregz]

I'm actually mildly hopeful when it comes to the rest of my playthrough.

Sure the mechanical simplification is inexcusable, especially given how well the old, rich mechanics of MW/DF would work with this game (spellmaker - new spells are effectively effects, you should be able to combine them, attributes, removed skills and so on) and whoever designed the interface should be put against the wall (it's not a hyperbole, BTW, he seriously should be fucking shot in his derpy head as the only way to be sure that he never designs any UI anymore), but the game seems massive improvement over oblivious in all the other areas. I'll have to see how well does it hold up to the scrutiny later on.

The game generally seems much more low-key when it comes to world creation - dirty and gritty, not pristine and shiny like oblivious.

They seem to have removed most of the outrageously derpy elements from oblivious - for example talking with an NPC doesn't make you cringe anymore (at least so far). I have found one or two excessively derp books, though.

Also, art design has *massively* improved, although a lot of armours are not very, umm, armour-like. All the minimalistic straps, loincloths and buckles would work better as some auxiliary gear or something, with actual armour going beneath.

Oh, well - I guess Slof will be happy to be able to make her mods without having to change the armours much.

Looks like you finally broke down and started to play the game, not too shabby is it?

I think almost everyone on this board has been surprised by the apparent incline; the more I play the more Skyrim wins me over. It's astonishing the amount of work they put into this game, and there's all kinds of nice touches and details along the way that give it a handcrafted feel you just don't see very often any more.

 

[Monocause]

I am such a dumbass. In the first couple days I heard dungeons didn't respawn.

Pretty sure they don't respawn for me. Perhaps it's because you didn't clear that one? The blind guy might've been counted as a baddie necessary to get the "cleared" status.

 

[Gerrard]

Enemies (and containers) in dungeons do respawn after some time. It will still say "Cleared" on the map though.

 

[mutile]

you can only train 5 skills per level and at higher levels you need more skill increases to level up so it will not let you level up fast.

Yes I know.

The point is that at higher levels; say close to 95 one-handed; training that is extremely expensive. However if at every character level I go and train some random ability ; say alteration magic; i get a decent chunk of xp. I just trained alteration yesterday at level 42 and it gave me half a level. It takes hours to get 1 skill point in 1h at this point too.

On the other hand 1 handed is capped at 100. So after that point I get no xp from hitting stuff with one-handed weapons. So now I have to go around and level random shit with skills that are totally gimp. Or level non combat stuff that server no purpose in my normal gameplay.

Seems flawed to me.

Another thing is quests themselves give no xp and killing a dragon and killing 5 rats seem to level skills at a similar rate; the whole thing just seems unreal.

The formula for levelling is (Current level - 1)*25 + 100 at level 42 needing 1150 xp you will not be able to train half a level, xp gained for raising a skill is equal to the skill level, so training lower skills will give you less XP.

Higher levels are more expensive to train as they give you more XP.

 

[Reptilian Shapeshifter]

Finished MQ and companions, thieves, mages and brotherhood questlines. Amazing how one can become the leader of every single guild in such short order. Found most of the Daedric artifacts as well.

Better combat and exploration than Oblivion, with a larger world than expected. With maxed enchanting (with enchanter's elixir) you can put +45% attack damage on multiple items. Combined with maxed smithing (with blacksmith's elixir) and one-handed increases, I ended up getting 380+ damage with a Daedric sword, which allowed me to kill most things in 1-2 hits (on master).

Overall, a mediocre game, but if you're into hiking around the landscape, you'll enjoy it. Better executed than Oblivion, but the same game at its heart, which is no surprise. There's nothing new here, just more of it, with a slightly shinier coat of paint.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Overall, a mediocre game, but if you're into hiking around the landscape, you'll enjoy it.

Truer words unspoken until now.

 

[roll-a-die]

They do respawn, and now I have to fight through them just to get my stuff back.

maybe they didn't respawn, but under the influence of their radiant AI decided to relocate from another location because of all the cool stuff you left there an obvious example of where skyrim c&c worked well.

Do people with under 30 posts qualify for dumbfuck.


This guy is a fucking shill. Give him the plant or something.

Seriously he's a little stupid.


Enemies respawn. And bandits are in fact leveled. Gear for them, is not so much. There are higher level bandits as well, that are swapped in as your level range increases. Same with draugr.


Leveled things include, dragons, draugr, bandits, the random NPCs that you encounter. And certain pieces of gear you earn, such as the Dragonbane, the Axe of Whiterun. And almost every area they can guarantee you run into during the main quest.

The difference is that, like fallout 3 you can go out and over level dungeons after you run into a hard one. Also that that cell stays locked at that level range.

Can't tell if I'm being trolled.


You there Drogg?

 

[Luzur]

Finished MQ and companions, thieves, mages and brotherhood questlines. Amazing how one can become the leader of every single guild in such short order. Found most of the Daedric artifacts as well.

so it was true that ive been reading.

dammit Bethesda is it so hard to make it so i cant join every damn guild and become their leader?
how am i supposed to larp a Nord warrior become Arch-Mage?

also i console kill/sneak arrow them in their sleep Draugrs now, since they are more of a pain in the neck then interesting combat targets.

 

[Reptilian Shapeshifter]

Enemies respawn. And bandits are in fact leveled. Gear for them, is not so much. There are higher level bandits as well, that are swapped in as your level range increases. Same with draugr.


Leveled things include, dragons, draugr, bandits, the random NPCs that you encounter. And certain pieces of gear you earn, such as the Dragonbane, the Axe of Whiterun. And almost every area they can guarantee you run into during the main quest.

Yup, unlike Oblivion, bandits don't show up with glass/ebony, but their armor and HPs still level up massively at higher levels. Having to hit a bandit wearing hide armor 30+ times before he goes down is fucking stupid. Not really an improvement over Oblivion. This is why I did the enchantment/smithing grind first to +% the gear as much as possible.

 

[Drakron]

Bandits are crap and die in a few hits after you gain significant levels as what happens is higher level bandits get to slow up, they have a slightly different name and even if they gear caps, it also is bit more generous (a Normal Bandit goes up to Steel and stay there but I seen Highwayman with Orcish weapons).

The problem with Oblivion was EVERYTHING scaled up with no caps, Skyrim does not do that as it just starts to add higher level enemies to the spawn but never removes the low level enemies entirely, Wolves are not entirely replaced by Ice Wolves.

I am not going to say its the same as Oblivion because Morrowind also did the same as I only started to find Netch (you know, the floating "things") after I reached certain levels but because of the hard caps and spawn point you could run into trouble but after you reached a certain level (20 I think) everything the world generated was at beast a match to your level.

 

[Wyrmlord]

Enemies respawn

Don't areas have a "Cleared" marker put on them after you kill everyone there? Meaning they shall remain empty indefinitely?

 

[Drakron]

Don't areas have a "Cleared" marker put on them after you kill everyone there? Meaning they shall remain empty indefinitely?

http://www.thenexusforums.com/index.php ... in-skyrim/

 

[Wyrmlord]

30 day respawn? So there is respawn, but of a very trivial variety.

 

[Syril]

wow this thread still going strong and 40 pages, will it ever end ?

 

[Gord]

Bandits are crap and die in a few hits after you gain significant levels as what happens is higher level bandits get to slow up, they have a slightly different name and even if they gear caps, it also is bit more generous (a Normal Bandit goes up to Steel and stay there but I seen Highwayman with Orcish weapons).

This is what I have observed, too.
Wolves, "Bandit"-bandits, "Draugr"-draugr, etc. are all pretty much one shots now.
The harder ones are differently named variants. If there is some scaling applied to the base variants it's so subtle I haven't noticed it.
Unless it kicks in only on high character levels (beyond 30), I doubt you will see the lowest enemy variants suddenly tanking 30+ of your hits.
According to what I've read there seem to be leveled variants that show up in random encounters, but not in dungeons.